KQ2:Romancing the Stones--Did it change too much?

[Fierce Deity]

They thought doing free work for fans was going to get them the license? It's not out of the question, but did they even try to get exposure? I found out that Episode 1 of TSL was released before I knew that AGDI had been making remakes the entire time. Besides, Telltale is turning a profit for their rebooted series of games. Why wouldn't they get a license with all of the exposure they have? It was a safe decision on Activision's part. They aren't going to invest in a bigger Adventure project and leave it in the hands of a group that they don't think is capable of succeeding. It's there right to give AGDI the metaphorical middle finger. Why complain about it?

[Baggins]

Besides, I would have hated the next 'official' marketed game, to be based on a completely different game universe than the original games, from a series that went out of its way to ignore the original canon...

I wouldn't have bought it, personally...

I was marginally worried about the term 'reboot' used for Telltale games, although reboots are a better way to go (see Castlevania: Lords of Shadow) than, say Star Trek XI trying to merge a reboot with the original, through splitting both universes (and ignoring classic Trek time travel mechanics), or Zelda trying to split the universes in a very convoluted way

But now Telltale says they will be following the established continuity... (whatever this means).

[Fierce Deity]

But now Telltale says they will be following the established continuity... (whatever this means).

It means it's going to have Connor. 

[Baggins]

I would like to see a cameo of Connor... Perhaps as a knight in the kingdom... Doesn't mean he has to be playable...

Doesn't mean the game has to be an action game either...

I personally don't want to play as Connor for this game, consider that in the classic series, every other game used a different character more or less... It would be wrong to have connor twice in a row...

[Fierce Deity]

If they tried to make Connor's character more prominent in the series, it might make Mask of Eternity look better to the fans. I liked MoE, and would rather it be on par with any of the other King's Quest games. But Connor's character was so bland in MoE, that I find it to be somewhat of a chore trying to make his character more important to the series. He saved the world, but nobody was around to see it. 

[Baggins]

Ya, and Connor was intended to be more prominent... There is enough suggestions that the next Roberta game might have starred Rosella or Edgar, or Edgar and Connor, and involved a love triangle between the three...

Roberta had no intentions to introduce him to the series, and leave him out of the story in future installments...

but nobody was around to see it.  

Except Graham and the Daventry Official through the mirror, and the Archons!

BTW, I'll admit that Connor is probably my third favorite KQ character after Graham and Alexander!

He's kinda of composite of those two characters as well! Have you noticed his story is basically the Quest for the Crown retold? Save the kingdom and the king? Both are known as 'Sir Knight'... He and Alexander both say "Zounds" alot! His basic clothes and hairdo are essentially King Graham and Alexander in KQ5!

[Fierce Deity]

Yeah, but I meant "physically" see it. The Magic Mirror is cheating.

[Baggins]

Think about it Graham, and the rest of the family weren't around to see Rosella save Tamir!

Few saw Graham save Daventry (though they did see him return the treasures).

No one saw Graham 'save' Kolyma... (though they do return there later, so presumably get praise)

No one was around to see Alexander save Llewdor. But he does get to encounter other family members after he saves Daventry!

Graham wasn't around to see Alexander save the Green Isles... (though he got the chance to show up a week later).

No family members were around to see Graham save Serenia, but he also does get a chance to save his family!

No other members of the family were around to see Rosella and Valanice save Etheria! Where was King Graham?

I say the magic mirror is better than nothing, but ya its a shame they never were able to finish the Graham/Connor Knighting ceremony they had planned... The whole 'Connor returns to Daventry' alluded to by the Oracle of the Tree.

[Fierce Deity]

It doesn't have to directly be a royal family member. I was talking about anybody at all. Alexander had witnesses to him defeating Alhazred. The Eterians witnessed Rosella and Valanice saving Etheria. All I'm saying is that Connor didn't have many witnesses. They had Graham and his advisor looking through the Magic Mirror, the Archons, and a partially petrified wizard. Out of the three, the wizard was the only one who actually met Connor, and would testify that he was the hero. I don't know much about Archons, but they seem reclusive. I doubt they would meddle in worldly affairs, even if Connor saved them as well. There were some witnesses, but overall, Connor was alone.

[Baggins]

Connor had the Archons as witnesses... BTW, the Archons have almost the same role as the gods in Etheria (but for the world of Daventry)!

They actually do appear to meddle with the world's affairs a few times throughout the game... Mostly the Archon, Uriel (appears to Connor multiple times to speak to him, and tell him about Lucreto, etc). Actually its explained that their major point is basically as guardian angels that keep the world in Order, Truth and Light, through "God", represented by the Mask of Eternity... Their purpose is to prevent Chaos, Darkness, and Falsehoods from spreading in the world...

You also learn a bit more about the roles of the Archons by other characters in the game...

The archons also speak to Connor telepathically throughout the game.... Especially once you reach the Temple of the Sun... Urging him on to save the world! Keep in mind that the Archons have been defeated by Lucreto and turned to stone/crystal themselves, and thus can only communicate to Connor in spirit form... Their powers are reduced otherwise.

Even Uriel and a Gate Spirit tests you in the temple of the sun on each level, to make sure you are worthy of going further into the temple. Uriel appears shortly before you enter the inner sanctum to fight Lucreto as well, to give you a few more words of advice, ala Obi-Wan...

It's quite obvious that the Archons know who their savior was, and they were the ones who gave the prophecy of Connor by name to the Ancient Ones, several Millenia before the game! Thus why Prophet Hector even knew Connor by name, and that he would be the Chosen Hero!

Also Connor had many witnesses throughout the game's lands, since he goes about saving each land individually, thus why he has all those heroic titles he earns throughout the game! He was tied to multiple prophecies (which involve saving each land individually)...

Champion, Sir Champion, The One, Chosen One, Champion of Champions, Champion Eternal, The Deliverer, Enlightened One, Incorruptible One, Champion of Light, Upholder, True Upholder, Upholder of Law and Order, Victorious One, Exalted One, Champion of Righteousness, Righteous One, Anointed One and Sir Knight

Also consider that Graham and the Official, witnessed the initial defeat of the Archons at the hands of Lucreto, the destruction of the mask, and the dark omen of the cataclysm heading their way, before being turned to stone themselves. It's pretty obvious that when they see the mask in a reconstructed form through the mirror, that they would know that Connor was the one who saved them! I know I would be putting two and two together? Considering how my current experience would tie back to my 'last memory', before turning to stone!

[Blackthorne]

Oh, wow.  A discussion about KQ2+ decends into another conversation about MoE.  Weird.


Bt

[Baggins]

Any discussion about KQ can turn to a discussion about any other KQ game, including KQ8... or the next Telltale game... They are all connected to each other some way...

Speaking of KQ8, KQ2+ has a whole sequence devoted to the game, showing the scene of Connor being knighted by Graham soon after he saved the world!

Which in a way was similar to a scene that was originally supposed to be included in KQ8, but was never completed due to budget and time.

So is it really all that weird that a discussion of KQ2+ would include a discussion of KQ8?

[Lambonius]

[Fierce Deity]

I see what you did there. 

[Baggins]

Picard is hiding a secret...

Mod Edit: Image removed.

[Delling]

Stay classy, Baggins.

[Baggins]

Just saying, it doesn't look much like picard, unless you shrink the image down to 1 inch... At that current blurry mosaic state, it looks very different than Picard...

[Damar]

Um, yeah.  So...Romancing the Stones and whatnot...

In a general way I liked the changes they made.  I liked the new land of Kolyma and I liked the upgraded puzzles.  Over all, I really like the whole game.  That said, though, there are some very specific changes I was not fond of.

First off, I am not a huge fan of the Father.  I strongly dislike the idea of all the villains being tied together as it weakens each of the villains motivations as an individual.  And really, the Father was not necessary.  They could have just given Hagatha a character and increased motivation.  Bringing in the Father just opened up plot lines that will never be resolved.  It attempted to create a lore and history of King's Quest that I felt was just out of place exposition at best and unnecessary plot complications at worst.

I also really did not like the changes made to Dracula and the monk.  I liked the monk in KQ2, what little there was of him.  In the remake he was a backwards intolerant monk who wanted to shun the nonbeliever.  Personally, I felt that was kind of a stereotyped character motivation (Oooh!  Look at the intolerant religious zealot!)  And now the monk's a werewolf who wants to kill the unbeliever.  Because I guess he's still a zealot.  Except, was the bat one of the forest spirits too?  Or was that something sent by the Father because Caldaur didn't want to be a Black Cloak anymore?  I don't really know.  All I know is that I liked the monk and it bothered me to see him the bad guy.

And I was really, really not a fan of Caldaur.  Mainly this is because I strongly dislike the idea that vampires are heroes or antiheroes or anything more than bloodsucking parasites.  I'm not a fan of the mystique built up around them because I see them as the original folkloric undead that prey upon the common good of a society.  Turning Dracula into Caldaur and having him now become a sympathetic character who then steals the life of Red Riding Hood just rubbed me the wrong way.  And I'm not even going to touch the fact that Caldaur's bite magically transforms children into a sexy undead woman who looks stunning in a dress.  That was just wrong.  And then having Caldaur perform the marriage that originally was done by the monk?  Just not right.

Honestly, even if I didn't see vampires as soulless bloodsucking parasites, even if I did "get" the concept of the vampire as a hero, I still wouldn't like that change.  It's a very modern concept and feels like a flavor of the month that is now written into the game.

Outside of those major changes, there's very little I didn't like in the game.  Some of the writing I wasn't fond of.  In particular I don't like the poetry that is attempted in the game.  The door's poem, Valanice's words in the sand, and a few other places just don't sound right.  The poetry always feels rushed in its cadence and the rhymes sound forced.  I had the same issues with KQ3 Redux.  I'm just not a fan when the game writer attempts poetry.  Call me a snob if you want.

Other than those issues, It's a really fun game.  I particularly liked the sky spirit challenges.  And in spite of turning a bloodsucker into the good guy, I did like the fact that the game did tie grandma and Dracula together instead of just having her keep his stuff under her bed.  I also liked the fact that the ghosts also had a purpose now.  I liked the expanded undersea kingdom and the fact that you now deal with the evil enchanter and the dwarf.  Over all, it's a really great game.

[MusicallyInspired]

But because of sheer ego, or whatever, they didn't.  They just assumed that they were going to be able to get the KQ license as Himalaya and make that last game.

That's not really fair. They weren't made out of ego, it was just fun. They didn't "start" a new canon and hope to be able to finish it later on. It was just fun. I thought it was fun.

Remember how pissed AGC2 was when Telltale got the license?  Remember that silly temper tantrum he threw for a few weeks?  All that "it should have been us...what a low blow from Telltale" talk?   That's what I mean.  They really should have known better.

You can't say "they" and "AGC2" in the same sentence when regarding AGDI/Himalaya. It's more than one man.

[Lambonius]

But because of sheer ego, or whatever, they didn't.  They just assumed that they were going to be able to get the KQ license as Himalaya and make that last game.

That's not really fair. They weren't made out of ego, it was just fun. They didn't "start" a new canon and hope to be able to finish it later on. It was just fun. I thought it was fun.

Remember how pissed AGC2 was when Telltale got the license?  Remember that silly temper tantrum he threw for a few weeks?  All that "it should have been us...what a low blow from Telltale" talk?   That's what I mean.  They really should have known better.

You can't say "they" and "AGC2" in the same sentence when regarding AGDI/Himalaya. It's more than one man.

Alright alright, fair enough.  I am, of course, exaggerating (perish the thought!)  I'm just basing my comments on stuff I had read (or at least, thought I had read) over on the AGDI boards and elsewhere, where it was said that the plan was always to finish The Father storyline in an original game set at some unspecified future date later in the timeline of the series, but that because of not being able to be paid to do so, the game would not be able to see the light of day.  In fact, I do think it was AGC2 that said this, but I'd have to do some digging to find the quote.  I know AGDI/Himalaya is more than one man, but honestly, AGC2 has always seemed like kind of the unofficial public voice of your group/company--it's hard not to take what he says as the official position of AGDI.