Laura Bow: Colonel's Bequest vs. Dagger of Amon Ra

[Sir Perceval of Daventry]

Which do you feel is the better Laura Bow game?

[drunkenmonkey]

Which do you feel is the better Laura Bow game?

Even though I never did complete it, amon ra is the better game. Now if you want me to explain, I can't really because I only vaguely remember. Perhaps because it was more modern. It was a better experience, and was point and click. I'll definitely have to go back and revisit these games. I remember there was a part where you had to replace a lightbulb in amon ra, it was around about there where I got stuck.

[KatieHal]

Both really good. Amon Ra was a little better--you were more involved in what was going on, instead of just being a bystander. By which I mean in CB, you were ONLY observing things and then talking to them. There wasn't a lot of interaction with the characters, you were more just a witness to the events, and only actively a part of the last act.

In Amon Ra, though it is still a lot of just observing and talking to people (and still too dependent on that, IMO), you were more involved, you did more stuff, it was more developed and interesting I think. The mystery depended on finding very specific clues that were easy to miss, though. When I played it I did miss them, and got the coroner's report quiz completely wrong despite doing most things correctly.

Also, if this series got revived somehow, I'd love to see it continue with Laura & Steve's fiesty daughter attending college in the liberal Northeast and taking after her mother.

[Lambonius]

Ugh.  Yuck.  I couldn't disagree more.

Amon Ra is TERRIBLE.  One of the hands down WORST designed Sierra games EVER.  The Journal dialog system makes the game all but unplayable.

Colonel's Bequest, on the other hand, is one of the masterpieces of the early SCI era.  Probably the best SCI graphics next to Hero's Quest, and just chock absolutely full of amazing atmosphere.  Overall, I think the story is handled much better, too.  Sure, it's possible to miss stuff, but replaying it to figure out what you missed is half the fun.  And it is far from just walking around and observing--sure you do that--but there's also a great element of exploration to it--the hidden passage in the garden maze, the hidden journal in the chapel, all the passages in the house, etc.  

Amon Ra, on the other hand--I mean, seriously, half the game is spent in the back of the damn taxi cab, and the other half is spent paging through the goddamn journal.  Ugh...and don't even get me started on the terrible voice acting!  Seriously, what a f****** terrible game.  One of Sierra's absolute WORST.

Haha...oh yeah, and let's not forget the f***ing QUIZ at the end of the game in Amon Ra.  Seriously.  Whoever designed that s*** needs to be spanked.  And not in a good way.

[KatieHal]

LOL, I had forgotten about the journal system--yes, that was not a good idea, I agree.

ETA: Hmm, interesting. I actually didn't play Amon Ra with voices, so I've got no experience or opinions there.

[Big C from Cauney island]

Colonels bequest has a cool story, it just got frustrating constantly asking questions with the text.  It had a more eery feeling overall.

However, I liked dagger of amon ra more because of the vga and use of icons.  I always failed the coroner exam, even though I knew who it was.  I actually didn't even beat the game until 2009, when I randomly found a walk through on the internet and decided to dosbox it and beat it.  20 years to beat a game is hard core. Not that I played it for 20 years, I was simply bored one day and decided to play it.  The museum is cool as well.

[Lambonius]

I have strong opinions on things.

[Cez]

Amon Ra.

But I played Amon Ra before I played CB. I did really look forward playing CB after Amon Ra though, and was a little disappointed, but then again, I played it out of its time.

I did enjoy Amon Ra immensely, even though I could not figure out who the killer was for the life of me. I didn't play the talky version either.

[MusicallyInspired]

I believe Josh Mandel designed Amon Ra. Surprising that it seems to have such criticized design aspects. Josh usually makes a decent game.

[darthkiwi]

I actually thought the journal and quiz were excellent ideas, even if they weren't used very sensibly. I've always been really annoyed at how adventure games and detective stories don't quite mesh: in an adventure game you only have to use items on other items until the game is done, but with a detective novel you have to actually *understand* exactly what's going on before the mystery can be solved. You could solve every puzzle and explore every area, but even if you've seen and heard everything, you still have to actually put the pieces together in your head. I felt that the journal and quiz were the game's way to accommodate this, and I think the game was more complex (in a good way) as a result, becoming more of a detective story than puzzlefest.

Having said that, any potential that the game displays in the detective department is completely undermined by the fact that the game is one of the most badly designed adventure games I've ever played. It's incredibly easy to miss clues and items, and you can wander into a random room and trigger a murder even if there are a hundred other vital things to do before that murder happens. Some of the puzzles are ridiculous and, while I like the journal and quiz in theory, their actual application is hopeless since the plot has none of the complexity and ingenuity of, say, Agatha Christie; it turns out that one person killed almost everyone for extremely shaky reasons (one suspects because the designers wanted lots of sensational murders). Perhaps the worst section is the chase section towards the end; Laura is chased by a murderer and has to escape. But at no point is she TOLD that she's being chased, so you simply start the chapter with some unusually fast music and are surprised when a madman comes in with a club and kills you.

I think the fundamental problem with the game is that the designers were so busy thinking about the game that THEY were building and playing, and were totally oblivious to the fact that the poor players would be expected to basically read their minds. I think this is actually true of many Sierra games to a lesser extent; there are obscure puzzles with no hints, it's easy to get into dead ends and since there are no tooltips it's very easy to miss items which are lost in a large game world. This doesn't always make them frustrating (Gabriel Knight had this to some extent and it's still one of my favourite games) but I do think they take a rather hostile approach to the player, penalising you for not reading the developers' minds. In most you can get over that and enjoy the experience, but Amon Ra was just so unreasonable and punishing that, even though I liked the setting, story and ambiance, the game as a whole felt like punishment.

[MikPal]

I choose Hugo 2: Whodunit?

[KatieHal]

The Blackwell Games from Wadjet Eye have a pretty good way of simulating the "understanding" method--you can combine topics in your notebook and create new ones, and the characters will comment, 'Such-and-such was at That Place when This Happened, maybe they know something,' or something to that effect so the player can hear it put together.

[Sir Perceval of Daventry]

I believe Josh Mandel designed Amon Ra. Surprising that it seems to have such criticized design aspects. Josh usually makes a decent game.

No, Bruce Balfour designed and directed Amon Ra.

[Lambonius]

I choose Hugo 2: Whodunit?

That game is friggin' awesome!  All of the Hugo games were great. 

[MusicallyInspired]

Ah I must be mixing it up with something else...

[Sir Perceval of Daventry]

Ah I must be mixing it up with something else...

Well, he wrote KQ1SCI, wrote most of SQ6 and co-wrote Freddy Pharkas

[MusicallyInspired]

I could swear I recalled an audio interview with Josh where he stated he designed LB2.

[Blackthorne]

The Colonel's Bequest has such amazing art and atmosphere.  The locations are awesome.  The characters are funny little parodies of well known people of the time, and perfect cliches.  The mystery is fun.  I just love the game.

Didn't care for Amon Ra.


Bt

[Klitos]

I'd rather cut my right testicle off with a blunt spoon than play Amon Ra. That is the single worst game Sierra ever produced, and that includes the early SierraVenture games. Honestly, sit me in front of Troll's Tale or Mystery House before Amon Ra.

CB was a great game, with a fantastic atmosphere. It was the perfect nod to 1920's murder mysteries and contained all the elements of those things. The best part of the game was the waiting and talking to people, it felt like the events were happening around you, and your job was to work out who was doing the killing before you got dead. I can understand that some people don't like the parser interface (I'd assume it's because they have a lower IQ than a retarded monkey who got hit by a bus - I'd only assume that because I can't think of another reason that P&C would be better...). But having to think of the right questions to ask is vital to a murder / mystery.

Now Amon Ra had the journal, which should get points for a good idea but instead deserves a "Moosecock Award" for being the most unworkable rubbish ever scripted into a game.

Just thinking about that game makes me want to vomit.

[Blackthorne]

This thread made me go back and play The Colonel's Bequest - and man, I still love the game.  The graphics are some of the most colorful, detailed and atmospheric of the Sierra early SCI era....  All the places on the Plantation are so cool to explore - it really reminded me of some of the old Mansions I saw in New Orleans.... it's fun to watch the game unfold, to spy on conversations.....  This game is itching to get an update.  If I was to remake it, I'd really stick to making the new art as close to the original as possible - mostly with some color upgrades and such.  I'd probably implement a Point and Click AND parser interface - so you could move about and examine things with the icons, but conversations would require the parser.

This game is a gem.  You really should play it if you haven't - ran fine in DosBox and ScummVM for me.


Bt