Author Topic: Opinions on King's Quest VII?  (Read 22934 times)

Offline Numbers

  • Powerful Wizard
  • ******
  • Posts: 1310
  • Gender: Male
  • Just call me '93458093463' if you want.
Re: Opinions on King's Quest VII?
« Reply #20 on: October 02, 2011, 04:25:45 PM »
No, I agree--having a mega-psychopath would've been incredibly out of place in a game that stars "Archduke Fifi le Yipyap" as one of its principal characters.  What I meant to say was that I couldn't really take the game seriously.  Although I did find Etheria to be a pretty nice place (though I wouldn't want to live there, what with Sirocco charging around).
I have no mouth, and I must scream.

Offline Lambonius

  • Magical Genie
  • *******
  • Posts: 1839
  • Gender: Male
  • You wanna talk to God? Let's go see him together.
Re: Opinions on King's Quest VII?
« Reply #21 on: October 02, 2011, 04:36:43 PM »
The problem with KQ7's Disney-inspired take on a KQ adventure is that it's really NOT very Disney.  Disney typically did a much better job of reigning in the silliness and relegating it to comedy relief moments in otherwise heartfelt and genuine films.  In KQ7, the silly tone permeates the entire thing--pretty much every scene.  It's more like a bad Saturday morning cartoon than a Disney movie.

Offline KatieHal

  • Designer, Public Relations Director
  • Administrator
  • Phoenix Groupie
  • *****
  • Posts: 6561
  • Gender: Female
  • Snark Advocate
    • Phoenix Online Studios
Re: Opinions on King's Quest VII?
« Reply #22 on: October 02, 2011, 05:29:59 PM »
I think Ooga Booga is the most well-done land in KQ7. Backgrounds, good mix of campy and creepy, it was the land that felt the most complete to me. A little more rounding out and work and it could've been perfect, I think.

The Vulcanix Underground was silly, Falderal was somewhat clever but also really annoying, the forest felt very much like an in-between location, just some nice screens that got you from one place to another, and the desert I always found really boring. I think it was a really bad choice to start the game in the desert, and with Valanice. The desert is just really cut off from the rest of the areas in the game--they all feel connected somehow, the desert doesn't feel like it fits in. And if you're going with a younger, Disney-style game? Don't start with your matron character, start with the princess! So, I think it should've opened with Rosella, and even if the Vulcanix Underground was really silly, it would've been a better introduction to the game, characters, and situation.

Katie Hallahan
~Designer, PR Director~

"Change is the constant, the signal for rebirth, the egg of the phoenix." Christina Baldwin

I have a blog!

Offline Numbers

  • Powerful Wizard
  • ******
  • Posts: 1310
  • Gender: Male
  • Just call me '93458093463' if you want.
Re: Opinions on King's Quest VII?
« Reply #23 on: October 02, 2011, 05:38:15 PM »
Yeah, Ooga Booga was definitely more interesting than Falderal (I'm STILL pissed that Valanice couldn't reach the moon because she apparently lacked the ability to bend at the waist).

And it's also true that the "Disney-ness" wasn't that professional.  Disney cartoons can actually do a good job with romance and whatnot.  I failed to notice any real sparks flying between Rosella and Edgar:

Edgar (paraphrased): "I know I kidnapped you twice, and I have a really weak mind because I keep getting captured and enchanted, but I still love you!"

Rosella's response:  "Will you show me the sights of Etheria?"

My response to Rosella's response:  "Wait, what...?"

Stuff like this is why fan fiction exists.
I have no mouth, and I must scream.

Sir Perceval of Daventry

  • Guest
Re: Opinions on King's Quest VII?
« Reply #24 on: October 02, 2011, 05:58:33 PM »
Yeah, Ooga Booga was definitely more interesting than Falderal (I'm STILL pissed that Valanice couldn't reach the moon because she apparently lacked the ability to bend at the waist).

And it's also true that the "Disney-ness" wasn't that professional.  Disney cartoons can actually do a good job with romance and whatnot.  I failed to notice any real sparks flying between Rosella and Edgar:

Edgar (paraphrased): "I know I kidnapped you twice, and I have a really weak mind because I keep getting captured and enchanted, but I still love you!"

Rosella's response:  "Will you show me the sights of Etheria?"

My response to Rosella's response:  "Wait, what...?"

Stuff like this is why fan fiction exists.

Edgar didn't kidnap her the first time. That was Lolotte's doing. Edgar rescued her from her fate by slipping the key underneath the door despite his feelings for her. He couldn't keep her prisoner despite being smitten with her. And he allowed her to kill the woman he believed to be his mother. The second time, yes, he kidnapped her, but he and a whole Kingdom were in trouble...So it worked out.

And that's definitely not the way the scenes with them go.

Also, I don't think he's weak minded. He got kidnapped the first time as an infant and the second time just as he got home. Both by enchantresses more powerful than he.

And also...KQ7 isn't primarily a romance story, hence why the romance side of things isn't as beefed up. They just went through a romance plot in KQ6; It'd feel repetitive if the plot was a romantic one yet again for the third time in the series

Consider in KQ4 that the only reason Rosella didn't say no to Edgar's question of marriage was because she had to go home and save her dying father, whose time was rapidly running out. That's not just in the KQC, even the game says she really considers it seriously before telling him no. So, his proposal to court her and her acceptance of that isn't all that out of whack in canon.

At least there's a foundation for why Rosella would want to be with Edgar: He did save her life and her father's, indirectly. She was toast once she was locked in the room if he didn't help her. Doomed to be Mrs. Edgar. He, by being selfess, allowed her to go free and save her father's life.

With Alex and Cassima, it almost comes off stalker-ish on Alex's part. He sees her for two minutes and then thinks about her for months after, obsessively. And he claims she gave him an invitation to visit the Green Isles; This never happened in KQ5.

Another reason why I dislike KQ6 is it basically rehashed the plot of KQ2 but beefed up.

Offline KatieHal

  • Designer, Public Relations Director
  • Administrator
  • Phoenix Groupie
  • *****
  • Posts: 6561
  • Gender: Female
  • Snark Advocate
    • Phoenix Online Studios
Re: Opinions on King's Quest VII?
« Reply #25 on: October 02, 2011, 06:37:04 PM »
I did appreciate that in KQ7, Edgar didn't jump right to proposing this time--he asked the medieval equivalent of 'hey, can we go out sometime?' He learned! True, the love story wasn't really a factor until the end, but that's why it felt to me that his toned down question was fitting.

Katie Hallahan
~Designer, PR Director~

"Change is the constant, the signal for rebirth, the egg of the phoenix." Christina Baldwin

I have a blog!

Offline Bludshot

  • Great Oracle
  • *****
  • Posts: 714
  • Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are dead. D:
Re: Opinions on King's Quest VII?
« Reply #26 on: October 02, 2011, 07:17:13 PM »
On the subject of Disney villains.  Most of the classic ones are freaking terrifying.  Ursula, the witch in Snow White, and even the Devil itself in Fantasia.  Others while not psychotic, are still very dark.  Scar, Gaston, Jafar all display the cold and cunning sides of human nature.  Mannanan and Alhazred can both be linked to these kinds of villains so there is a clear precedent that KQ7 could have been the same.

So I have a hard time believing the obnoxious villains of KQ7 can be defended on the concept they're more like Disney characters. 
Deep Thoughts with Connor Mac Lyrr
"Alack! The heads do not die!"

Offline KatieHal

  • Designer, Public Relations Director
  • Administrator
  • Phoenix Groupie
  • *****
  • Posts: 6561
  • Gender: Female
  • Snark Advocate
    • Phoenix Online Studios
Re: Opinions on King's Quest VII?
« Reply #27 on: October 02, 2011, 07:26:16 PM »
Yeah, Malicia had some villain fail going on. The fact that we didn't find out what the real plan and everything about her was until THE VERY END didn't help. You just knew this woman who sounded like a man in drag was using a volcano to blow up Etheria because, uh...evil?

Katie Hallahan
~Designer, PR Director~

"Change is the constant, the signal for rebirth, the egg of the phoenix." Christina Baldwin

I have a blog!

Offline Bludshot

  • Great Oracle
  • *****
  • Posts: 714
  • Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are dead. D:
Re: Opinions on King's Quest VII?
« Reply #28 on: October 02, 2011, 07:42:11 PM »
Yeah, Malicia had some villain fail going on. The fact that we didn't find out what the real plan and everything about her was until THE VERY END didn't help. You just knew this woman who sounded like a man in drag was using a volcano to blow up Etheria because, uh...evil?

Yeah at least KQ5 had the foresight to give Mordack a motive.  This is what bugs me most about KQ7, for all it's changes it felt like the series was going backwards.
Deep Thoughts with Connor Mac Lyrr
"Alack! The heads do not die!"

Sir Perceval of Daventry

  • Guest
Re: Opinions on King's Quest VII?
« Reply #29 on: October 02, 2011, 08:34:33 PM »
Yeah, Malicia had some villain fail going on. The fact that we didn't find out what the real plan and everything about her was until THE VERY END didn't help. You just knew this woman who sounded like a man in drag was using a volcano to blow up Etheria because, uh...evil?

Yeah at least KQ5 had the foresight to give Mordack a motive.  This is what bugs me most about KQ7, for all it's changes it felt like the series was going backwards.

That's another thing that technology happened. We were going to learn about Malicia's entire backstory and her motive in KQ7, but this was cut due to technological limits--KQ7 was already a huge game as it was (for the time) and I think something like 20% of it was cut in the end.

Offline DawsonJ

  • Great Oracle
  • *****
  • Posts: 689
  • Gender: Male
Re: Opinions on King's Quest VII?
« Reply #30 on: October 02, 2011, 09:35:04 PM »
It's a little astounding that after the huge success of KQVI Roberta Williams took almost none of the positives over to VII.  I realize she felt the series needed to evolve but it just I find it uncanny she removed all the pluses of KQ (points system, 5 senses replaced by a single cursor, and in the case of V and VI, beautiful setting) and added...3D inventory?

I'm glad Jane Jensen went on to make the GK series because it is so depressing that the series couldn't even meet the bar KQVI raised for the genre.

She replaced the icon interface because Sierra was getting complaints that it was "clunky." Also, KQ6, while critically acclaimed didn't outsell KQ5. KQ5 still was the highest selling computer game of all time until 1995, when Myst overtook it. She basically undertook a fact finding mission in 1991-1992, looking at the interfaces of all the most popular and high selling adventure games out there, and KQ7's interface came from that.


I like KQVII, but the programming was just awful - it made for a buggy game.* Why is it that Roberta's research tended to end up as excrement in application? With KQVII being poorly received, and, of course, all of her research for MoE... Need I say more? Did any of her "Research" and application yield positive results?

*Example of bad programming (Regarding timer coding) at 2:47:
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xi9kOFJABPY
« Last Edit: October 02, 2011, 09:45:56 PM by DawsonJ »

Offline Delling

  • Phoenix Groupie
  • **********
  • Posts: 9160
  • Gender: Male
  • Quite.
Re: Opinions on King's Quest VII?
« Reply #31 on: October 03, 2011, 04:47:26 AM »
Yeah, Ooga Booga was definitely more interesting than Falderal (I'm STILL pissed that Valanice couldn't reach the moon because she apparently lacked the ability to bend at the waist).
The evils of corsetting. :yes: :P
Noli me tangere! Nescio ubi fuisti!
Don't touch me! I don't know where you've been!

Marquess of Pembroke
Duke of Saxony in Her Majesty's Court
Knight of the Swan for Her Imperial Highness

...resistance was obviously useless against a family that could invent italics.

"Let the locative live."

http://my.ddo.com/referral/Delling87

Offline KatieHal

  • Designer, Public Relations Director
  • Administrator
  • Phoenix Groupie
  • *****
  • Posts: 6561
  • Gender: Female
  • Snark Advocate
    • Phoenix Online Studios
Re: Opinions on King's Quest VII?
« Reply #32 on: October 03, 2011, 07:36:45 AM »
haha, same joke I was going to make, Delling!

Katie Hallahan
~Designer, PR Director~

"Change is the constant, the signal for rebirth, the egg of the phoenix." Christina Baldwin

I have a blog!

Offline snabbott

  • Beta Tester
  • Global Moderator
  • Phoenix Groupie
  • *****
  • Posts: 5250
  • Gender: Male
  • Fairy tales do come true!
Re: Opinions on King's Quest VII?
« Reply #33 on: October 03, 2011, 11:21:00 AM »
This forum really needs a "like" button! :yes:

Steve Abbott | Beta Tester | The Silver Lining

Offline Bludshot

  • Great Oracle
  • *****
  • Posts: 714
  • Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are dead. D:
Re: Opinions on King's Quest VII?
« Reply #34 on: October 03, 2011, 05:03:57 PM »
Yeah, Malicia had some villain fail going on. The fact that we didn't find out what the real plan and everything about her was until THE VERY END didn't help. You just knew this woman who sounded like a man in drag was using a volcano to blow up Etheria because, uh...evil?

Yeah at least KQ5 had the foresight to give Mordack a motive.  This is what bugs me most about KQ7, for all it's changes it felt like the series was going backwards.

That's another thing that technology happened. We were going to learn about Malicia's entire backstory and her motive in KQ7, but this was cut due to technological limits--KQ7 was already a huge game as it was (for the time) and I think something like 20% of it was cut in the end.


That is an incredibly weak excuse.  The game had a lot of filler moments, especially in the first half, that could have been done away with, elements of chapters 2 and 3 and pretty much the entirety of the desert.  Space was clearly not an issue, there were plenty of areas in the game which could have had relevance to the plot, that quite simply just don't.
Deep Thoughts with Connor Mac Lyrr
"Alack! The heads do not die!"

Offline Cez

  • CEO
  • Administrator
  • Omnipotent Being
  • *****
  • Posts: 3573
  • Gender: Male
  • Together. We'll walk these corridors together.
    • Phoenix Online
Re: Opinions on King's Quest VII?
« Reply #35 on: October 04, 2011, 12:36:37 AM »
Yeah, and we are talking about King's Quest here, the flagship of a multimillion dollars company. I'm sure that there were still limitations, but if the game wasn't something Roberta wasn't happy with, I'm sure they could have delayed it until it was. She was working on Phantasmagoria, yes, but this is not "Shivers" or even GK2, which had a full chapter cut, this was King's Quest, the most important product in Sierra's history.


Cesar Bittar
CEO
Phoenix Online
cesar.bittar@postudios.com

Offline Bludshot

  • Great Oracle
  • *****
  • Posts: 714
  • Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are dead. D:
Re: Opinions on King's Quest VII?
« Reply #36 on: October 04, 2011, 03:01:46 PM »
Yeah, and we are talking about King's Quest here, the flagship of a multimillion dollars company. I'm sure that there were still limitations, but if the game wasn't something Roberta wasn't happy with, I'm sure they could have delayed it until it was. She was working on Phantasmagoria, yes, but this is not "Shivers" or even GK2, which had a full chapter cut, this was King's Quest, the most important product in Sierra's history.

Didn't know GK2 had a chapter cut, but looking back it makes a bit of sense.  Something late in the game I'm guessing?
Deep Thoughts with Connor Mac Lyrr
"Alack! The heads do not die!"

Offline Cez

  • CEO
  • Administrator
  • Omnipotent Being
  • *****
  • Posts: 3573
  • Gender: Male
  • Together. We'll walk these corridors together.
    • Phoenix Online
Re: Opinions on King's Quest VII?
« Reply #37 on: October 04, 2011, 03:10:20 PM »
There was a chapter written where you'd take the role of Ludwig II. My guess is that it was that whole long intro from chapter 6 where he hides the Opera pieces and gets caught.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2011, 03:13:08 PM by Cez »


Cesar Bittar
CEO
Phoenix Online
cesar.bittar@postudios.com

Sir Perceval of Daventry

  • Guest
Re: Opinions on King's Quest VII?
« Reply #38 on: October 05, 2011, 12:12:11 PM »
Yeah, and we are talking about King's Quest here, the flagship of a multimillion dollars company. I'm sure that there were still limitations, but if the game wasn't something Roberta wasn't happy with, I'm sure they could have delayed it until it was. She was working on Phantasmagoria, yes, but this is not "Shivers" or even GK2, which had a full chapter cut, this was King's Quest, the most important product in Sierra's history.

That is the fact, though. KQ7 had stuff cut not due to budgets or control issues, but simply because the technology wasn't there to handle it all. As it was, this was the first KQ game that wouldn't be released on CDs because it was that big technologically for the time. There was one land cut called the Rubber Jungle, and also more about Malicia's backstory. Her backstory and this information about the cuts is told in the KQ7 Authorized Player's Guide.

KQ1 also had stuff cut from it, but the cut stuff was put into KQ2 instead.

And we know all about how KQ8 had at least 3 different lands cut from it if not more, again due to technological restraints (and also, in this case, budget issues).

Offline Bludshot

  • Great Oracle
  • *****
  • Posts: 714
  • Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are dead. D:
Re: Opinions on King's Quest VII?
« Reply #39 on: October 05, 2011, 07:07:48 PM »
Percival could you explain how technology limited the story?  I'm having a hard time connecting the two.
Deep Thoughts with Connor Mac Lyrr
"Alack! The heads do not die!"
 

anything