King's Quest VII: What would you change?

[Bludshot]

I get the impression that the game was modeled after what made KQ6 great.  A world with its own different communities, some serious, some dark, some wacky, that you ideally get to know and love as you fight a villain trying to destroy it as you know it.

I think KQ7 tried and failed.

The game really showed me how critical Jane Jensen was to KQ6.  Where the Green Isles had a fantastic and cohesive lore attached to it.  Eldritch appears to be a linear succession of areas that don't really ever acknowledge the previous setting even exists. 

Where Abdul Alhazred attempts to usurp the crown by manipulating the other residents of the islands, Malicia tries to destroy Eldritch with a volcano...using the trolls' volcano eruption machine...which they have because of reasons.

The entire game just felt like a mess I think when we talk about what we'd change, the core of the game is alright, it just needs a LOT of elbow grease. 

Maybe explain why a Greek God is dating a Roman one, or explain if citizens of Eldritch specifically go to Ooga Booga when they die.

How do people feel about the trolls? Shouldn't their volcano eruption machine make the people of Falderal nervous?

Since there are ruins scattered about the Desert, people must have lived there once.  What happened to them? Are they all buried in Ooga Booga now? Did the trolls kill them with their volcano eruption machine?

Honestly if they treated the setting as more than just colorful backgrounds the game could be a great successor to the evolution of the series.

[Lambonius]

Ah yes...another "Jane Jensen the infallible" comment.  Gag me.

I agree about the KQ7 environments being totally random and incoherent, yes.  But KQ6's environments were cohesive first and foremost from an art direction standpoint.  They were all forested islands.

But sure--it must have been Jane Jensen's writing alone that made everything click.

[MusicallyInspired]

Jane's a good writer, Lamb. Don't knock her too much. She can write better than you anyway! I actually think she was holding back on her usual shtick a bit with KQ6 compared to what she's done since. But anyway, I don't want to aid in the derailing of another thread with ANOTHER KQ6 conversation.

[Bludshot]

She is hardly infallible.  GK3 was flat out bad.  Frankly the same sort of infallibility comments come up for Roberta Williams too, we are fans after all.  And I can't ignore the sudden spike in detail that went into KQ6's plot that magically disappeared in the rest of the series.

I get that people like KQ for different reasons, but for me KQ7 was just shallow.

[Lambonius]

Oh I agree, KQ7 is just...bad, when it comes to the plot (and graphics, and interface, and characterizations, etc. etc. etc.)  KQ6 is good, I admit that.  I've always liked the game.  But the story is only one element of the game--it also has some of the tightest puzzle design in the series, as well as excellent visuals and music (though for my money, not as good as its predecessor in that department.)  And the voice acting is quite good as well.  But the plot...it just diverges too much from everything I liked about KQ for me to ever agree that the writing is a huge part of what made the game good.

I liked GK1, too.  The other two GK games, though--oy.

[KatieHal]

I thought you'd been enjoying GK2? Speaking of, did you ever finish the last chapter?

[Lambonius]

I thought you'd been enjoying GK2? Speaking of, did you ever finish the last chapter?

GK2 had some good moments--even great moments.  But it is bogged down by an extremely slow pace and overly expository writing.  Not to mention the slow and cheesy acting and awkwardly edited FMV (which actively contributes to the blah factor of the aforementioned problems.)

And no, I still haven't been able to bring myself to finish it.  I just got so bored by the last chapter.  Isn't the fact that I have no desire to finish the game a sign of the significance of its shortcomings?  

**Any game that has as one of its required "puzzles" a sequence where the player must simply click every possible hotspot in an area and listen to slowly read exposition needs to go back to the damn drawing board. 

[Numbers]

Heh.  I acknowledge that KQ6 is a better game from a subjective standpoint, but I'm more likely to play KQ5...for the unintentional LOL moments, if nothing else.

*ahem*  Back on topic.

I would definitely change the appearance of the characters.  Maybe not so much what their faces look like, but what they're wearing.  When I first saw what Edgar looked like...


Between the long, wavy hair, superhero-like costume, and--you're not paying attention, are you?  You're too busy gawking at the undisputed master of dental hygiene, aren't you?  Sorry about that, just scroll down a little.









Anyway, the characters could use a serious makeover.  Please tell me I'm not alone in thinking that the Were-bear is one of the goofiest, most nonthreatening monsters in the series.  Or that Valanice looks like she belongs in a BBC film from the 70s...or that the Boogeyman looks like he could snap like a twig if you sneezed at him...or that the trolls look more like deformed hobbits than trolls...or that the Winds look like they belong in Ghostbusters...

[Bludshot]

But the plot...it just diverges too much from everything I liked about KQ for me to ever agree that the writing is a huge part of what made the game good.

Fair enough, I am probably doomed since KQ6 was the first one I played.

But back on topic I thought KQ7 for the most part was solid barring the writing.  The character models were a bit iffy but I thought the backgrounds were great, thought the music was great, voice acting was a little goofy but I didn't really mind.  Although now that I think about it the puzzles were pretty mundane, and that cheese moon fountain thing, seriously your gown is already ruined Valanice just walk in there and grab it!

[KatieHal]

I didn't mind the Boogeyman's design. But just about everyone else needed a makeover.

[Datadog]

I thought Boogeyman's design was awesome. He's like Jack Skellington and Gollum turned into one. I would've liked to see a lot more done with his character, really.

[Bludshot]

Ah yes the Boogeyman, a monster so fearsome Rosella had to walk away at a leisurely pace lest he feel like attacking.

[KatieHal]

"Never run from anything immortal. It attracts their attention."

(Clearly, Rosella got some chit-chat in with the Last Unicorn of Tamir before she left!)

[Cez]

I thought you'd been enjoying GK2? Speaking of, did you ever finish the last chapter?

GK2 had some good moments--even great moments.  But it is bogged down by an extremely slow pace and overly expository writing.  Not to mention the slow and cheesy acting and awkwardly edited FMV (which actively contributes to the blah factor of the aforementioned problems.)

And no, I still haven't been able to bring myself to finish it.  I just got so bored by the last chapter.  Isn't the fact that I have no desire to finish the game a sign of the significance of its shortcomings?  

**Any game that has as one of its required "puzzles" a sequence where the player must simply click every possible hotspot in an area and listen to slowly read exposition needs to go back to the damn drawing board. 

Keep telling you man, you should get to that opera video. It's the best thing in that game.

[ATMachine]

Heh.  I acknowledge that KQ6 is a better game from a subjective standpoint, but I'm more likely to play KQ5...for the unintentional LOL moments, if nothing else.

*ahem*  Back on topic.

I would definitely change the appearance of the characters.  Maybe not so much what their faces look like, but what they're wearing.  When I first saw what Edgar looked like...
[distracting image removed--oh, my eyes!  ]

Between the long, wavy hair, superhero-like costume, and--you're not paying attention, are you?  You're too busy gawking at the undisputed master of dental hygiene, aren't you?  Sorry about that, just scroll down a little.

[...]

Anyway, the characters could use a serious makeover.  Please tell me I'm not alone in thinking that the Were-bear is one of the goofiest, most nonthreatening monsters in the series.  Or that Valanice looks like she belongs in a BBC film from the 70s...or that the Boogeyman looks like he could snap like a twig if you sneezed at him...or that the trolls look more like deformed hobbits than trolls...or that the Winds look like they belong in Ghostbusters...

The long hair on Edgar was originally used in concept art for Alexander in KQ6, and before that the KQ Companion depicted both Graham and Alex with long hair. As for the dress, though... it looks like they were trying to get something similar to the costumes of the Princes in Disney's Snow White and Sleeping Beauty. Trying.

Valanice was also a borrowing from Disney-- for all visual purposes she IS Lady Tremaine in Cinderella. (The villain!)

[Cez]

and Rosella is Alice in Wonderland, all the way down to following the rabbit down into the hole.

[Numbers]

Not to mention Malicia's Jafar-esque appearance, complete with an obnoxious pet.

[Damar]

And I think that's one of the major issues is that they went so Disney cartoon with the whole game.  King's Quest had never been cartoony before (with the exception of some parts of the KQ1 remake, which I absolutely despise).  It might have been fantasy, fairy tale and had punny titles but it always played those attributes straight.  There's a wolf in grandma's nightie, but it's not a funny, wacky thing (like the werebears).  That wolf will straight up kill you if you stick around too long, nightie or not.

KQ7 was just too much of a cartoon.  And yes, I know that's what they were going for.  But why?  Why do that?  King's Quest had never needed that before.  And it's not like Disney animation was a brand new thing that the kids were going crazy for, like they probably thought trying to add action and violence into MOE.  Disney animation predated computers!  It was really an out of nowhere change and it really clashes with what King's Quest had, up until that moment, been.  Oh, and speaking of the cartoony artwork and the four fingers.  Maybe they are easier to animate.  And maybe that cheat is used all the time and people tend to not notice.  But I think what might have made it more noticeable and more egregious here is that Rosella shoves her four-fingered hands right into the screen!  As I recall, my responses to the opening movie and it's radical, cartoony change were as follows: "Is that...is that a cartoon caterpillar?  Really?  Ok, well there was an anthropomorphized caterpillar in the last...Is Rosella singing?  REALLY?  Ok, I...I just don't know...but I guess if there has to be a song I can deal and...DOES SHE ONLY HAVE FOUR FINGERS?  THERE IS NO GOD!"  I mean, they made sure we got a nice, long look at those fingers.  They went full cartoon right there.  King's Quest should never go full cartoon.

I know they were trying to appeal to kids, but why do that by going full cartoon and dumbing everything down?  I grew up on the 16 color parser games and loved them!  King's Quest has always been accessible to kids.  KQ7 was just a mess.  The cartoon art style didn't work, the plot was a jumbled mess, the lands didn't feel cohesive, and the characters were ill-defined.  It just didn't work.

[Datadog]

And it's not like Disney animation was a brand new thing that the kids were going crazy for

Partially true. Before the early 90's, Disney hadn't had a REALLY successful movie in almost 30 years. With "The Little Mermaid", "Beauty and the Beast", and "Aladdin" taking the world by storm, it was easy to see how Roberta Williams could get caught up in the excitement and create KQ7 in the same style. Kids WERE going crazy for anything Disney at the time. Heck, we even settled for the Disney knock-offs.

[KatieHal]

I don't think trying out a new look, and that look being Disney, was a bad move in and of itself. Unfortunately the execution is what really failed in this case, and combined with all the other flaws, it was just a mess overall.

That said, I'd still take the flawed cel-shaded cartoon look they used there over the awful early 3D graphics that ended up being used in MoE and GK3.