School for Heroes Kickstarter

[GrahamRocks!]

Hahahahahahaha!! Whose slapping whom, I wonder? Or is he/she just tweaking her/his nose? I can't really tell.

[KatieHal]

I'm pretty sure it's a smack, and I've always assumed it's me smacking him. 

[Numbers]

Ah, we need blunt people like Lambonius. If everyone were politically correct, that would be more than a little boring. We need brutally honest people that hate things we like so that we react just like the guy in this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ks843HXBqeA

Or if that isn't the case, one can always rely on the tried and true "shut up:"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oA0IpS_3S-0

[inm8#2]

This is going to be awesome. Can't wait!

[Blackthorne]

Hahah... nice Rimmer quote!

Lamb's just opinionated, and he'll express it.  He's really got the heart and soul of a kitten, though.


Bt

[snabbott]

He's really got the heart and soul of a kitten, though.

Hidden away in the attic? (j/k)

[Bludshot]

I'm probably opening a can of worms here, but one thing that distracts me about the QFG2 remake is how some of the characters, intentionally or not, got whitewashed.

[Lambonius]

Lamb's just opinionated, and he'll express it.  He's really got the heart and soul of a kitten, though.


Bt

I am honored to have my own smiley.  There should be one of steam shooting out of Cesar's ears as I criticize his dialog, too. 

I think the QFG2 remake is a great piece of programming, and I can only hope that QFI is as tight when we finish it.  However, I stand by my opinion that it smacks of a lack of creativity on the part of the same development group that brought us the brilliantly illustrated and fleshed out KQ2+ and especially KQ3 Redux.  Compared to those, QFG2VGA is a snore.  It's just a lot of years and work put in for what is effectively the same exact game but with point and click added.

[GrahamRocks!]

*ahem! points to QFG1 remake by Sierra* ...

[Blackthorne]

*ahem! points to QFG1 remake by Sierra* ...

Yeah, that suffers from some same slings and arrows too - but at the least the artwork was significantly redesigned and redrawn.  Most of the QFG2VGA backgrounds (while I love them!) are just direct repaints of the SCI originals.  QFG1VGA had some screens with new angles, etc.

I am a fan of the new alleyways, though.  So much more personality and character to them - for me, at least.

I would have liked to have seen a voice pack, though.  Sigh.

Oh, yeah - and, well, some of the character portraits are a little Caucasian-ed!


Bt

[Bludshot]

It is a small complaint, I like the remake a lot (mostly for the improved combat) but Abdulla isn't white dammit.

[Lambonius]

*ahem! points to QFG1 remake by Sierra* ...

Yeah, that suffers from some same slings and arrows too - but at the least the artwork was significantly redesigned and redrawn.  Most of the QFG2VGA backgrounds (while I love them!) are just direct repaints of the SCI originals.  QFG1VGA had some screens with new angles, etc.

I am a fan of the new alleyways, though.  So much more personality and character to them - for me, at least.

I would have liked to have seen a voice pack, though.  Sigh.

Oh, yeah - and, well, some of the character portraits are a little Caucasian-ed!


Bt

Yeah, what Bt said.  QFG1VGA by Sierra is nothing like QFG2VGA by AGDI.  As Bt said, the artwork in QFG1VGA was completely revamped, redesigned and redrawn from scratch.  While I personally prefer the art of the original EGA Hero's Quest, at least there were some really significant artistic changes to the remade version that actually make it worth playing to see.  

Effectively, all AGDI did with the backgrounds was to raise the color depth.  The designs of nearly all the screens are EXACTLY the same.  It's boring.  What's the point of playing a remake that looks identical to the original, but with more colors?  Not much.  

And as much as I dislike the lack of scrolling in the alleyways, at least they DO look better.  It's the one area where they actually took the time to redesign and improve the graphics, so I do appreciate the alleyways for that.  I just think navigating them is more tedious.  Your mileage may vary, though.

[snabbott]

I did really enjoy that they added a Pizza Elemental.

[Lambonius]

I did really enjoy that they added a Pizza Elemental.

I thought all the added bits were great--the revamped combat, hidden enemies, easter eggs, etc.  I just have a specific philosophy when it comes to remakes--if it doesn't, at the very least, have a substantial graphical rework (more than just upping it to "VGA,") I just don't see the point.    When I play through the QFG series, I typically play the first two in their original form--I love the EGA graphics.  But if a team is going to go through years of sweat and hard work to remake the game, I'd love to see their artists' original takes on the same scenes, that's all.

[GrahamRocks!]

Ah, okay fair enough. 

I actually haven't found the Pizza Elemental yet. God help me when I do, because I know I'm going to die over and over and over and over...

[snabbott]

I just have a specific philosophy when it comes to remakes--if it doesn't, at the very least, have a substantial graphical rework (more than just upping it to "VGA,") I just don't see the point.    When I play through the QFG series, I typically play the first two in their original form--I love the EGA graphics.  But if a team is going to go through years of sweat and hard work to remake the game, I'd love to see their artists' original takes on the same scenes, that's all.

Yeah, I agree that it would be nice to see more creative input.

I actually haven't found the Pizza Elemental yet. God help me when I do, because I know I'm going to die over and over and over and over...

I only found it with a walkthrough, and I couldn't defeat it.
Maybe I would have had better luck as a fighter - I was playing a wizard character.

[Bludshot]

I think the QFG2 remake is a great piece of programming, and I can only hope that QFI is as tight when we finish it.  However, I stand by my opinion that it smacks of a lack of creativity on the part of the same development group that brought us the brilliantly illustrated and fleshed out KQ2+ and especially KQ3 Redux.  Compared to those, QFG2VGA is a snore.  It's just a lot of years and work put in for what is effectively the same exact game but with point and click added.

I agree with your idea of what a remake should be, it reminds me of the remake/deluxe edition of Monkey Island, just an updated version of the same artwork with nothing special to distinguish it from the original.

I think AGDI's thinking was since they essentially already made KQ2 their own game, and not everyone liked that, they decided to make a fairly loyal QFG remake.

[Blackthorne]

Eh, plus you can only do so much on a free, no budget game.  Hindsight is 20/20.  If QFG2VGA had a budget, there would have been more reimagined artwork and a voice pack, for sure.


Bt

[crayauchtin]

Add to that the ridiculous decision to utterly break the incredible context-clue-based dialog system by condensing it into dialog trees

....Lamb...... did you somehow NOT notice that the dialogue tree -- much like the simplified alleyways -- was a setting? That you could change? So you didn't HAVE to use the dialogue trees? At all?

In fact -- and I love this -- there was even a third option to have dialogue trees AND have a little parser where you could type in your own things to ask about. Which I think is SOOOOO much better than the dialogue trees in the actual Sierra-made QfG games because it allows you to see if you can pick up any more information on something even if it isn't in the dialogue tree. Do you have any idea how much dialogue we lost in QfG1 because of the dialogue trees? I prefer the artwork in QfG1 VGA (I like that it's a little darker in tone, emotionally speaking) but I don't play it because of all the missing dialogue. And, no, they didn't cut out important clues or anything but that doesn't mean I don't want to ask about these things!
But AGDI did not do that. In fact there's MORE dialogue programmed in the remake than there is in the original QfG2 -- like a lot more -- that you can only get to from not just following the dialogue trees.

So, while I can certainly see most of your complaints being understandable opinions.... this one? No. Not even a little bit. Not even slightly. This is possibly the most illegitimate, baseless complaint for a computer game I think I have ever read. This complaint is basically "I didn't look at the settings at all and I want to whine about it."

Now, I'm not saying QfG2 is perfect. I usually play it, but that's because I have trouble getting the original to run on my Mac in a big enough window.... but when I play on my old PC it's always the original. I really don't like almost ALL of the dialogue portraits, for one. (Bludshot is right -- Abdulla is NOT white. And Dinarzaad should not be horrifyingly ugly....) I like that there's a sky over the alleyways, and I like the merchants in the alleys, but otherwise I'm not a fan of the revamped alley system because -- as you said Lamb -- it doesn't scroll. I also agree, I do find the artwork is much too similar to the original (if you're going to make VGA and therefore "more realistic" graphics, Raseir should be a LOT darker!)

But the dialogue system? No, the dialogue system is absolutely the best thing about the remake. Hands down.

Anyways, more to the point, this whole discussion of QfG2VGA really has nothing to do with the Kickstarter project which is now live -- http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1878147873/hero-u-rogue-to-redemption

[Lambonius]

I hate the way the city streets were treated in the AGDI remake of QFG2.

They look great, and I like the easter eggs you can discover there, but the lack of scrolling actually makes it MORE tedious, not less.  It takes a lot longer to get anywhere, unless you use the "condensed alleyways" mode, which just feels like cheating.  Add to that the ridiculous decision to utterly break the incredible context-clue-based dialog system by condensing it into dialog trees, the boring paint-over graphics, and lack of voices, and you have a thoroughly pointless and unimpressive remake.  The battle system was very tight, though--I'll give them that, and at least they included the option to turn off the dialog trees and use parser.  But yeah, what a waste of years.

Ahem.