Poll

Where would you buy the game from?

Gamersgate
6 (35.3%)
Gamestop
5 (29.4%)
Rain
6 (35.3%)
GameFly
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 17

Author Topic: Where are people buying Cognition?  (Read 24125 times)

Offline wirebrain

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Re: Where are people buying Cognition?
« Reply #20 on: October 30, 2012, 10:28:30 AM »
Rain and Gamersgate are both protected, yes.

Gamestop uses their own system.

As for the server not working in the future, even if that were to happen, codes can be provided to bypass it manually.

Hope that helps!


A little too late for my tastes. This morning I went to check on how to get my pre-order off RainDG, and it's been giving me a hard time every step of the way. I still can't download my Episode 1 purchase. Now I find out that this game uses Securom DRM? This should have been disclosed at the store site when I purchased it.

I have a hard stance on consumer punishment devices such as that. I've been a big supporter of your team since the beginning and wanted to contribute when I could to your first commercial product. Yes, I understand opening day issues and hopefully I can get a link to the dang install file. I'd like to play Cognition soon, but I guess I'll have to wait a few days longer.

Next time, please make sure if you're this worried about the game getting out that you tell us so we can make a better informed purchase. Honesty is really the best policy, because right now I feel like I got scammed.

Offline Cez

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Re: Where are people buying Cognition?
« Reply #21 on: October 30, 2012, 10:30:47 AM »
Rain and Gamersgate are both protected, yes.

Gamestop uses their own system.

As for the server not working in the future, even if that were to happen, codes can be provided to bypass it manually.

Hope that helps!


A little too late for my tastes. This morning I went to check on how to get my pre-order off RainDG, and it's been giving me a hard time every step of the way. I still can't download my Episode 1 purchase. Now I find out that this game uses Securom DRM? This should have been disclosed at the store site when I purchased it.

I have a hard stance on consumer punishment devices such as that. I've been a big supporter of your team since the beginning and wanted to contribute when I could to your first commercial product. Yes, I understand opening day issues and hopefully I can get a link to the dang install file. I'd like to play Cognition soon, but I guess I'll have to wait a few days longer.

Next time, please make sure if you're this worried about the game getting out that you tell us so we can make a better informed purchase. Honesty is really the best policy, because right now I feel like I got scammed.

What problem are you having on Rain? Are you not being able to download the file?


Cesar Bittar
CEO
Phoenix Online
cesar.bittar@postudios.com

Offline wirebrain

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Re: Where are people buying Cognition?
« Reply #22 on: October 30, 2012, 10:37:21 AM »

What problem are you having on Rain? Are you not being able to download the file?

I cannot download the file at all. The site is a mess and when I go to the suggested www.findmyorder.com site, and finally managed to get the thing to work, it only displayed the pre-order zip file. I've received no information or instructions on where to collect episode one.

Offline Cez

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Re: Where are people buying Cognition?
« Reply #23 on: October 30, 2012, 10:41:01 AM »
PC or MAC version?


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cesar.bittar@postudios.com

Offline wirebrain

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Re: Where are people buying Cognition?
« Reply #24 on: October 30, 2012, 10:43:11 AM »
PC.

Offline Cez

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Re: Where are people buying Cognition?
« Reply #25 on: October 30, 2012, 11:11:24 AM »
Wirebrain, can you please email us at support@postudios.com with your details so that we can the game in your hands.

Let us know your name and authorization info you got from Rain.

Thanks!


Cesar Bittar
CEO
Phoenix Online
cesar.bittar@postudios.com

Offline Glen Elg

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Re: Where are people buying Cognition?
« Reply #26 on: October 31, 2012, 11:29:27 AM »
DRM is a dealbreaker for me. There's an option at Gamergate for the developer/publisher to sell the game DRM-free that Phoenix obviously chose not to use. Any chance you will reconsider or try to convince the publisher (if there is one) to reconsider? Otherwise me no buy.

Offline Rick_Florez

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Re: Where are people buying Cognition?
« Reply #27 on: October 31, 2012, 12:38:39 PM »
I've noticed that the topic of DRM has come up a few times and its definitely an important question that is worth discussing.  Copy protection has been standard in the game industry since the late 80s so my question to you is what aspects of modern day DRM do you feel is problematic.

I too cringe at the sound of DRM and the decision of whether to use some form of it was something that the directors at Phoenix Online wrestled with for a while.   The reality is the game was not going to ship without some form of basic copy protection.  We had to find the fine line that would allow us to protect our product but also not be limiting for the user.

The DRM included with Cognition is simply an online key activation the first time you play the game.  Once activated you no longer need to be connected to the internet to run the game.  We also allow for the same key to be active on a few computers at the same time in case you want to install it on both your desktop and laptop.  The key is also transferable if you chose to upgrade your machine.

So I invite you to leave your opinions to help us determine if copy protection on future products will be handled differently.

« Last Edit: October 31, 2012, 01:06:04 PM by Rick_Florez »
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Offline snabbott

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Re: Where are people buying Cognition?
« Reply #28 on: October 31, 2012, 12:58:04 PM »
I've never really understood this. I suspect that SecuRom in particular makes people nervous because of the bad old days when it installed a rootkit on your machine. That was a long time ago, though. The DRM on Cognition is really minimal.

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Offline eriqchang

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Re: Where are people buying Cognition?
« Reply #29 on: October 31, 2012, 04:32:37 PM »
Just bought my copy off Rain - Cesar mentioned this was the best option royalty-wise. :)))

So excited to sit down and play!

Offline spinz

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Re: Where are people buying Cognition?
« Reply #30 on: October 31, 2012, 04:56:36 PM »
I've noticed that the topic of DRM has come up a few times and its definitely an important question that is worth discussing.  Copy protection has been standard in the game industry since the late 80s so my question to you is what aspects of modern day DRM do you feel is problematic.

I too cringe at the sound of DRM and the decision of whether to use some form of it was something that the directors at Phoenix Online wrestled with for a while.   The reality is the game was not going to ship without some form of basic copy protection.  We had to find the fine line that would allow us to protect our product but also not be limiting for the user.

The DRM included with Cognition is simply an online key activation the first time you play the game.  Once activated you no longer need to be connected to the internet to run the game.  We also allow for the same key to be active on a few computers at the same time in case you want to install it on both your desktop and laptop.  The key is also transferable if you chose to upgrade your machine.

So I invite you to leave your opinions to help us determine if copy protection on future products will be handled differently.



Securom in particular has been shown to cause performance reduction. Witcher 2 used to use securom (and the rain and gamersgate versions of cognition do have securom):
http://www.1up.com/news/framerate-issues-prompt-witcher-2-drm-removal
« Last Edit: October 31, 2012, 05:00:56 PM by spinz »

Offline Glen Elg

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Re: Where are people buying Cognition?
« Reply #31 on: November 01, 2012, 03:14:52 AM »

So I invite you to leave your opinions to help us determine if copy protection on future products will be handled differently.



For me and many others the lack of ownership control is the key issue with these types of DRM. Im not concerned about what SecuRom or other types of protection do to my computer. I think those issues are exaggerated.

I relatively often buy games only to play them months, sometimes years later. When Ive played them I like the idea of being able to uninstall them, keep them on a hard drive or DVD and maybe replay them later, be it one, two or maybe fifteen years from now. Just like I have with the Gabriel Knights and other great oldies. What will happen when I do? Will it be possible to activate the game over the internet in fifteen or even two years? Will the SecuRom protection itself be a problem with the OS that I use then? I dont know, and that uncertainty is my problem with these activation based DRM.

I really think you should reconsider this. As a small developer with a relatively small base of potential customers Id say goodwill is more important than a few missed sales because of piracy. If there even are missed sales. As you know, illegal downloads with cracked exe:s will soon be around anyway.

Just look at the success of gog.com. Now even relatively large developers publish their new games there, often in combination with selling the game DRM-free at Gamersgate. Especially gog.com use DRM-free as a main selling point and it works. Gamersgate has the option to filter out games with DRM when browsing their games. I constantly use it.

My 2 cents. Thanks for inviting the discussion and good luck with the game and the rest of the series.

Offline Argentum

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Re: Where are people buying Cognition?
« Reply #32 on: November 01, 2012, 10:53:16 AM »
I agree with Glen. My concern regarding DRM doesn't have anything to do with computer performance, it's mostly about concern over the future if I decide to replay a game.

One major gripe I have with a game that I have with DRM (Batman: Arkham City, specifically) is that it has a limited number of installs that come with the game (it came with my graphics card, so I'm not too upset over it, but I never would have purchased the game myself). I only discovered this after installation, so now I feel obligated to keep it on my hard drive for as long as I can, since I have a habit of replaying/re-experiencing games I enjoy.

I know it's been mentioned that Cognition only has a key activation, with a possibility of offline override, but in the event I lose track of Phoenix Online or am unable to contact them for some reason if/when activation servers are gone, Cognition will either become a hard drive burden for the remainder of the life of my HD or I'll just be unable to re-experience the game, period.

I definitely understand the desire to protect your work from lost sales, so thanks for being willing to discuss this topic.

(Reading back on my response, Glen phrases his post more clearly than I did.)

Offline Blackthorne

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Re: Where are people buying Cognition?
« Reply #33 on: November 01, 2012, 04:14:40 PM »
I bought mine at Rain dg.  Had no problems downloading the file; I also had no problems putting it on an external hard-drive, a USB memory stick and a blank DVD-ROM for my files.  Why?  Because I'm not a total idiot and I know how to keep my own archive.  I also created a text file with my key in it, and put it on each said medium.  I was difficult, I know - but after exactly 24 seconds of time and effort, I had assured that the small amount of money I paid for such a game would not go to waste - unlike the $100+ I spend a week on food does.


Bt
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Offline eriqchang

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Re: Where are people buying Cognition?
« Reply #34 on: November 01, 2012, 04:44:40 PM »
I bought mine at Rain dg.  Had no problems downloading the file; I also had no problems putting it on an external hard-drive, a USB memory stick and a blank DVD-ROM for my files.  Why?  Because I'm not a total idiot and I know how to keep my own archive.  I also created a text file with my key in it, and put it on each said medium.  I was difficult, I know - but after exactly 24 seconds of time and effort, I had assured that the small amount of money I paid for such a game would not go to waste - unlike the $100+ I spend a week on food does.


Bt


LOL!!!  :suffer: Given Phoenix Online's customer service track record and attention to detail, I'm sure they will happily help anyone looking for a reactivation or needing reinstallation help. I am all for the Blizzard Diablo III activation/purchase and redownload from your account business model. I think it's great. If you want to purchase a boxed Collector's Edition with all the extras, that's always a great option additionally.

Offline Glen Elg

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Re: Where are people buying Cognition?
« Reply #35 on: November 02, 2012, 04:20:20 AM »
I bought mine at Rain dg.  Had no problems downloading the file; I also had no problems putting it on an external hard-drive, a USB memory stick and a blank DVD-ROM for my files.  Why?  Because I'm not a total idiot and I know how to keep my own archive.  I also created a text file with my key in it, and put it on each said medium.  I was difficult, I know - but after exactly 24 seconds of time and effort, I had assured that the small amount of money I paid for such a game would not go to waste - unlike the $100+ I spend a week on food does.


Bt

Well, you will certainly look like a total idiot the day you install the game from your hard drive or DVD, open your little text file, put the activation code it in the right field and suddenly notice the activation server is gone. It would have been better if you had learned to read and understand basic texts before learning to archive files on your PC.

On a more creative note; I think I could tolerate activation type DRM if the seller made a promise to release a DRM-free install or game executable after a certain time. Maybe something to consider?

Offline spinz

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Re: Where are people buying Cognition?
« Reply #36 on: November 02, 2012, 12:12:43 PM »
^well, in the event of the activation server going under, any self respecting company would release a patch to remove it, but not until that time.
I dont have any problem with simple one-time online activation drm. Its usually light weight and doesnt cause any conflicts. I also dont have a problem with the steamworks drm, because again its light weight, and theres an option to play offline.
What i do have a problem with is drm that makes my computer work harder, and reduces framerate. And securom is one of those drms. Even in cases where the framerate loss isnt noticable, it bugs the hell out of me that its putting more strain than needed on my hardware.

Offline wilco64256

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Re: Where are people buying Cognition?
« Reply #37 on: November 02, 2012, 12:14:06 PM »
We're running a number of tests to determine whether our Securom implementation has any effect on framerate.
Weldon Hathaway

Offline Blackthorne

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Re: Where are people buying Cognition?
« Reply #38 on: November 02, 2012, 03:38:24 PM »
I bought mine at Rain dg.  Had no problems downloading the file; I also had no problems putting it on an external hard-drive, a USB memory stick and a blank DVD-ROM for my files.  Why?  Because I'm not a total idiot and I know how to keep my own archive.  I also created a text file with my key in it, and put it on each said medium.  I was difficult, I know - but after exactly 24 seconds of time and effort, I had assured that the small amount of money I paid for such a game would not go to waste - unlike the $100+ I spend a week on food does.


Bt

Well, you will certainly look like a total idiot the day you install the game from your hard drive or DVD, open your little text file, put the activation code it in the right field and suddenly notice the activation server is gone. It would have been better if you had learned to read and understand basic texts before learning to archive files on your PC.

On a more creative note; I think I could tolerate activation type DRM if the seller made a promise to release a DRM-free install or game executable after a certain time. Maybe something to consider?


Well, I won't look like a complete idiot, because with my leet hacker skills, I can crack the DRM easier than I can open a bag of chips.  I'll have my game, and chips all over my floor.  Ha ha!

Bt
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you know it's going to get harder and harder as you
get older - but in the end you'll pack up, fly down south, hide your head in the sand.  Just another sad old man, all alone and dying of cancer." - Dogs, Pink Floyd.

Offline wilco64256

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Re: Where are people buying Cognition?
« Reply #39 on: November 02, 2012, 07:34:25 PM »
I haven't the foggiest how they implemented this, but I really love the anti-piracy measures Nintendo took with Spirit Tracks. The game would start up totally fine and look perfectly normal for the first while, but then if it thought it was a pirated copy the controls for the train wouldn't become visible on the screen. It was hilarious to see all the help threads showing up on GameFAQs and other places titled "Why can't I see the throttle for the train??"
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