Poll

Who Likes Silver Linining part 4?

Yes
11 (55%)
No
5 (25%)
Maybe
0 (0%)
So So
4 (20%)
OK
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 19

Author Topic: Who likes Silver Lining Part 4?  (Read 13711 times)

Offline djthat87

  • Wizard's Slave
  • *
  • Posts: 1
Who likes Silver Lining Part 4?
« on: December 27, 2012, 06:21:42 PM »
Answer this Survey Thank yoU!

Offline Jafar

  • Phoenix Groupie
  • **********
  • Posts: 9625
  • Gender: Male
  • Spiiin~
Re: Who likes Silver Lining Part 4?
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2012, 11:37:41 PM »
I didn't. :P
The Unofficial The Silver Lining Official Sarcasm Cleaner Upper's Assistant

Defender of All Things Against Connor

Jarada Knight: The Honourable Marshmallow

Official Useless Information Finder

And who knows what else?

Offline Say

  • Indie Dork!
  • Phoenix Asylum Escapee
  • ***********
  • Posts: 10858
  • Gender: Female
  • meÖw
    • Phoenix Store
Re: Who likes Silver Lining Part 4?
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2012, 02:05:46 AM »
D :


Say Mistage
Phoenix Online Studios

#IndieSupport <3

Offline Deloria

  • Staff
  • Phoenix Honour Guard
  • ***
  • Posts: 15197
  • Gender: Female
Re: Who likes Silver Lining Part 4?
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2012, 05:09:19 AM »
I didn't. :P
Nor do I. XD The epic battle of epicness was kind of unintuitive and felt a bit out of place. :P I think doing Greek has made me go "Oh there's a prophecy? Really? How...artificially epic." Greek has ruined so many things in my life. :(
 
Holy Roman Empress
Queen of *all* Albion
Précieuse and salonnière! :D
"In cases of doubt about language, it is ordinarily best to consult women."-Vaugelas
Space! :D Extraterrestrium! :D Espace! :D

Offline KatieHal

  • Designer, Public Relations Director
  • Administrator
  • Phoenix Groupie
  • *****
  • Posts: 6561
  • Gender: Female
  • Snark Advocate
    • Phoenix Online Studios
Re: Who likes Silver Lining Part 4?
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2012, 08:40:24 AM »
Welcome to the forums, djthat87! I liked Ep 4, though I may be biased;)

Also, I'm gonna move this to the TSL forum. :)

Katie Hallahan
~Designer, PR Director~

"Change is the constant, the signal for rebirth, the egg of the phoenix." Christina Baldwin

I have a blog!

Offline GrahamRocks!

  • Magical Genie
  • *******
  • Posts: 2192
  • Gender: Female
  • Hoooot!
Re: Who likes Silver Lining Part 4?
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2012, 12:10:39 PM »
I loved TSL episode 4, otherwise why would I be here?

Offline Jafar

  • Phoenix Groupie
  • **********
  • Posts: 9625
  • Gender: Male
  • Spiiin~
Re: Who likes Silver Lining Part 4?
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2012, 12:19:18 PM »
I loved TSL episode 4, otherwise why would I be here?
Aw man, I guess I'm not allowed to stay here anymore. :(

*jumps off the screen*
The Unofficial The Silver Lining Official Sarcasm Cleaner Upper's Assistant

Defender of All Things Against Connor

Jarada Knight: The Honourable Marshmallow

Official Useless Information Finder

And who knows what else?

Offline KatieHal

  • Designer, Public Relations Director
  • Administrator
  • Phoenix Groupie
  • *****
  • Posts: 6561
  • Gender: Female
  • Snark Advocate
    • Phoenix Online Studios
Re: Who likes Silver Lining Part 4?
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2012, 12:25:35 PM »
LOL, I did not know Sonic could or would just do that!

Aw, you know you're still welcome here! All we ask is that if there's criticism, make it constructive criticism. :) (And I'm sure it's entirely possible you've elaborated on that in the feedback thread.)

Katie Hallahan
~Designer, PR Director~

"Change is the constant, the signal for rebirth, the egg of the phoenix." Christina Baldwin

I have a blog!

Offline Cez

  • CEO
  • Administrator
  • Omnipotent Being
  • *****
  • Posts: 3573
  • Gender: Male
  • Together. We'll walk these corridors together.
    • Phoenix Online
Re: Who likes Silver Lining Part 4?
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2012, 06:14:42 PM »
So now I'm actually interested in knowing why you (whoever voted) liked it or why you didn't?


Cesar Bittar
CEO
Phoenix Online
cesar.bittar@postudios.com

Offline GrahamRocks!

  • Magical Genie
  • *******
  • Posts: 2192
  • Gender: Female
  • Hoooot!
Re: Who likes Silver Lining Part 4?
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2012, 07:14:05 PM »
Why? Because the writing improves each time an episode is released. Because ever since learning about KQ over a year ago, and seeing how bad MoE ended up being, I wanted to see if that was truly it for KQ and that it would end at such a lackluster note.

I found you through TV Tropes (and Paw), and haven't looked back since. Even your non-TSL stuff has been surprisingly good- I fully admit, when I first heard about Cognition, I thought to myself, "It's not King's Quest or generally Sierra, so I think I'll pass." But then I saw the trailers and Toegoff's livestream... and immediately changed my mind.

I would say that my favorite parts of TSL in general is the writing, the voice acting (Jason Michael Victor= Perfect voice for Graham bar none!), and the visuals and music (especially from episode 3 onward. I can't wait until volume two of the soundtrack comes out!)

I love how you give each character (even formerly minor ones) a little personality. Although I do admit that the animations are a little...off at times, I chalk that up to the engine you guys are using, not your designers. The dialogue usually distracts me from it anyway.

As for the Pandora's Box puzzle and the final fight, I didn't really think they were all that bad! Of course, this could because I was a wimp and played on Easy, plus I had a paper next to me that had all the symbols on it that helped out on what they looked like. It only took 20 minutes for me to solve it (I think I was taking it slow and concentrating), although it didn't feel that long. Felt like half of that. As for the fight, that was also easy once I knew how exactly to do it and the only thing that still puzzles me is when it goes to the overhead view of the boat and it starts rocking back and forth. Makes me nervous.

Deloria- If learning Greek makes one so critical and negative of everything, then I don't want to learn it!

Offline Damar

  • Royal Heir
  • ****
  • Posts: 493
Re: Who likes Silver Lining Part 4?
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2012, 07:47:23 AM »
I don't think learning Greek is the only way to discover that the prophecy theme has been utilized way too much in fantasy.

I ultimately voted no.  There was a lot I liked about this episode, certainly more than I didn't like.  But, I can't ignore that 90% of what I remember of episode 4 after all this time is Pandora's Box and that horrible final fight.  I guess that time has not changed my reaction at all.  I still feel just as strongly about it.  Those events, the fight in particular, really killed the episode for me.  I won't bother reiterating why as I already did my constructive criticism in depth and repeatedly back when the episode first came out.  Anyone who is curious or wants a refresher can check out the Episode 4 Feedback and Feedback on the Fight topics.

It's really too bad, though, because there was a lot I did like about the episode.  Just can't past those fatal flaws.

Offline Deloria

  • Staff
  • Phoenix Honour Guard
  • ***
  • Posts: 15197
  • Gender: Female
Re: Who likes Silver Lining Part 4?
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2012, 12:22:10 PM »
Deloria- If learning Greek makes one so critical and negative of everything, then I don't want to learn it!
Actually, learning Greek gave me a greater appreciation for the good and original, as well as the ability to distinguish between what is good art/poetry/tragedy and what isn't. I probably would have enjoyed something like Episode 4 if I hadn't had this experience, but I don't consider myself worse off for not being capable of liking it because I can now think critically about these things.

So now I'm actually interested in knowing why you (whoever voted) liked it or why you didn't?
I've put my thought processes in spoiler tags because I don't want to overwhelm people who aren't interested in why I have these conclusions, merely the fact that I have them.

Spoiler (mouse over to reveal):

Basically, from the point of view of a prophetic epic tragedy, it kind of fails on several levels. And I really disliked the battle on the ship, but I would have disliked that anywhere. :P It's just not my sort of thing. But that's not the designers' fault.

I am also aware that the designers have one episode to finish the plot, meaning there is almost certainly going to be a Deus Ex Machina event (oh sure, you can take that from Euripides), possibly in the form of a failsafe in the box reimprisoning everyone. Should this also be the case, I will again view it as an example of lazy storytelling, because this is only satisfying in epics in which there are actual gods involved or at least mentioned from the start.

I don't wish to come off as ungrateful or wholly negative; I know a huge amount of effort and love have been poured into this project and I support you guys completely. I think the art was beautiful, the voices were mostly very good and the soundtrack was breathtaking. I just have trouble taking the storyline seriously as a prophetic epic (or anything else) because it simply isn't and it tries very hard to be. I feel as though this could have been curtailed quite a bit with some research into how these things work, but I also realise that the entire thing was cut back enormously from what the script originally intended it to be and you had to scrape something together from whatever remained of the original plot.

I don't think learning Greek is the only way to discover that the prophecy theme has been utilized way too much in fantasy.
Of course it's not. :) Any sort of education which allows people to think can do that; for me it was just studying the literature and language of a place that's used these devices more than others.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2012, 12:36:05 PM by Deloria »
 
Holy Roman Empress
Queen of *all* Albion
Précieuse and salonnière! :D
"In cases of doubt about language, it is ordinarily best to consult women."-Vaugelas
Space! :D Extraterrestrium! :D Espace! :D

Offline GrahamRocks!

  • Magical Genie
  • *******
  • Posts: 2192
  • Gender: Female
  • Hoooot!
Re: Who likes Silver Lining Part 4?
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2012, 01:15:56 PM »
Well... to be honest, I have a high tolerance for most things: "annoying" characters and Fantasy cliches are just two of them. 

Offline Damar

  • Royal Heir
  • ****
  • Posts: 493
Re: Who likes Silver Lining Part 4?
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2012, 02:35:01 PM »
I am also aware that the designers have one episode to finish the plot, meaning there is almost certainly going to be a Deus Ex Machina event (oh sure, you can take that from Euripides), possibly in the form of a failsafe in the box reimprisoning everyone. Should this also be the case, I will again view it as an example of lazy storytelling, because this is only satisfying in epics in which there are actual gods involved or at least mentioned from the start.

I don't wish to come off as ungrateful or wholly negative; I know a huge amount of effort and love have been poured into this project and I support you guys completely. I think the art was beautiful, the voices were mostly very good and the soundtrack was breathtaking. I just have trouble taking the storyline seriously as a prophetic epic (or anything else) because it simply isn't and it tries very hard to be. I feel as though this could have been curtailed quite a bit with some research into how these things work, but I also realise that the entire thing was cut back enormously from what the script originally intended it to be and you had to scrape something together from whatever remained of the original plot.

I agree with this, and I fear it will become a problem in the final episode.  I get that a lot was cut, and that certainly informs some things, but it's not an excuse.  When you cut stuff, you've got to make sure the story as it remains is satisfying and makes sense.  At this point I also fear that everything is going to come down to a Deus Ex Machina and that will be deeply unsatisfying and may still leave other inconsistencies.  And that's a legitimate story and design issue.  I'm reminded of some story inconsistencies in KQ7, like Valanice dropping everything to rescue a wheel of cheese.  Apologists will go on about how there was more to the story and all that to which I respond, it doesn't matter.  In the game that exists Valanice is fixated on a wheel of cheese for no reason.  Either the story as it was needs to be told, or it needs to be fixed so that the stuff that was cut no longer has an impact.  In Silver Lining, it's been mentioned that time running backwards was part of a bigger plot that was cut.  I think it's safe to question whether, since the bigger plot was cut, the entire concept of time running backwards should have just been removed as well because it just serves to confuse and distract now.

And I do think some of that came out more in episode 4 as well.  I think that this was the first episode that I started to question whether some of these oddities would or could be totally tied up.  There was a lot to like about episode 4, but its flaws overwhelmed it and actually made me concerned about episode 5 a little.  Not just because of the Deus Ex Machina issue and the fact that it may not be able to tie up all loose ends, but also because the boss fight talisman is obviously going to play a major role, which may mean episode 5 will largely be more fights and less adventure gaming.

Offline Old_Crow

  • Wizard's Slave
  • *
  • Posts: 6
Re: Who likes Silver Lining Part 4?
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2012, 05:06:38 PM »
I was the (first) "So So" vote.  Were you to ask about episodes 2 and 3 I would have given an emphatic "YES."

I don't want to waste space quibbling about every aspect of episode 4 but I felt the "zodiac symbol construction" puzzle was far too complex for my poor eyes.   I understood the mechanics; the solution was obvious.   But it took me 64 minutes to complete it.   It seemed more like a time waster than a solid puzzle.   The ending boss fight, while a bit unintuitive, was a breeze by comparison.

Offline GrahamRocks!

  • Magical Genie
  • *******
  • Posts: 2192
  • Gender: Female
  • Hoooot!
Re: Who likes Silver Lining Part 4?
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2012, 08:02:51 PM »
Am I the only one who didn't mind the Pandora's Box puzzle/final fight very much? I guess so, because EVERYONE has been complaining about it except me!

Speaking of the final fight, there is one thing I'm puzzled about: When it goes to the overhead view of the ship and Shadrack says, "Hold STILL Graham!" and starts rocking the boat, I wasn't sure how I was supposed to "resist" him screwing around with my Dream Amulet because he kept making it spin in a circle and I fall.

Other than that, it was a good fight imo.

I wonder what poor Hassan was thinking during this scene though?

Offline KatieHal

  • Designer, Public Relations Director
  • Administrator
  • Phoenix Groupie
  • *****
  • Posts: 6561
  • Gender: Female
  • Snark Advocate
    • Phoenix Online Studios
Re: Who likes Silver Lining Part 4?
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2012, 09:47:15 PM »
We're not going for a Deus Ex Machina ending, I can at least sat that much. And the story was cut down, yes, but also retooled to work in the cut-down version. It wasn't a pure removal of a chunk of story without any rewriting. In fact, Episode 5 was written entirely new a year or two ago to make sure it worked.

More specifically, re: who could open the box, btw, it was "a Black Cloak with good intentions" (in this case, Valanice wanting to save her daughter). Only a Silver Cloak could find the box, however, which was Rosella. There's more about the prophecy, but as that's covered largely in Ep 5, I won't go into it. But I did want to clarify those two parts at least.

Katie Hallahan
~Designer, PR Director~

"Change is the constant, the signal for rebirth, the egg of the phoenix." Christina Baldwin

I have a blog!

Offline GrahamRocks!

  • Magical Genie
  • *******
  • Posts: 2192
  • Gender: Female
  • Hoooot!
Re: Who likes Silver Lining Part 4?
« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2012, 10:35:46 PM »
Not that I was all that worried myself, but I still find that a relief. I trust you guys wholehearted in what you're doing.

Offline Neonivek

  • Royal Heir
  • ****
  • Posts: 375
Re: Who likes Silver Lining Part 4?
« Reply #18 on: December 31, 2012, 04:39:45 AM »
What Dues Ex is needed?

Remember that the current locations of the Silver Cloaks are unknown and the game actually tells two major contradictory tales on how just exactly the box even works.

For example one story ends with the Silver Cloaks being gone (sealed inside the box too)

The other indicates that there are still Silver Cloaks around

Plus don't forget that Valanese is a fully trained Druid and Black Cloak of impressive power. Rosella and Alexander are both kinds of cloaks (with Alexander being mystically trained). Graham is strongly hinted to not remember he is a Silver Cloak. Heck Graham humiliated Santrak in a straight up magical duel with no experience (sorta), I think he firmly lost his villain credits.

Now I'd mention their allies but I think we firmly established that no one wants to help the Daventry Family and Graham certainly doesn't want their help back. So we can eliminate them from the solutions pile.

If anything my biggest worry for Episode 5 is that it may not attempt to find a deeper meaning. That it was just a set up to a standard ending rather then the final ending.

It seems to be building up to a major twist.

Anyhow I liked Part 4

Quote
I'm reminded of some story inconsistencies in KQ7, like Valanice dropping everything to rescue a wheel of cheese.

It was the moon itself, it needed to be saved.

Offline Cez

  • CEO
  • Administrator
  • Omnipotent Being
  • *****
  • Posts: 3573
  • Gender: Male
  • Together. We'll walk these corridors together.
    • Phoenix Online
Re: Who likes Silver Lining Part 4?
« Reply #19 on: January 03, 2013, 12:41:21 PM »
Valanice was imprisoned because she did something bad within the Black Cloaks. Manannan mentions it to her. Shadrack realizes that this actually works according to their plans, as Graham would later come to save her, and then the two societies would merge.

The "problem" with this Prophecy is that it's a two-sided Prophecy. There are two possible outcomes to it, and there's a reason why the Fates decided it to be that way. More in Ep5 :)

I will say however that, regardless of TSL, if knowing the greeks make you unappreciative of stories that contradict what was established by them, that's a very square way of seeing things. In the case of TSL, we are not even talking about the same Universe. The "Greeks" do not exist as we know them in the Universe of Daventry.

And no, no Deus Ex Machina. It's all done by the Daventry family.


« Last Edit: January 03, 2013, 12:56:52 PM by Cez »


Cesar Bittar
CEO
Phoenix Online
cesar.bittar@postudios.com