Hey, is anyone else getting... frustrated?

[MangoMercury]

I'm happy enough to wait...  Heck, I've been a member of this forum for...  Ten years now (although absent for a large amount of that but still checking in on the project!).  Given that Cognition is actually bringing an income, I can understand that being the priority entirely.

I played the first episode of TSL when it first came out, but am yet to play the rest...  I want to wait until the whole experience is there (especially since I had issues installing it in the first place!), and although I can't wait...  I can wait!

[Boogeyman]

I don't know, but the alternative would likely be no video. It would be a lot of work to recreate all that in Unity.

Spoiler (mouse over to reveal):

I don't know - maybe it's an homage to the original KQ games, where a fall from a foot off the ground is enough to kill you.

Or to Colonel's Bequest, where Laura dies from a short fall off the balcony.

[rev79]

Calling it now: this will never be released.

[GrahamRocks!]

Oh, FOR HEAVENS SAKE! Will you people just be patient?! They ARE working on it, but remember: everyone is a VOLUNTEER over there!

[Numbers]

Calling it now: this will never be released.

You know what? You're right. We should all just call it quits right now. Shut this site down. There is no reason for it. There's no reason for anything anymore. Even though they're 90-95% done with the final episode--and currently have funding, to boot--it'll never happen. Woe is me. Woe is all of us, for getting ensnared in the trap that is TSL episode 5. It was truly one of history's greatest tricks, this thing that we have followed all these years. 'Twas flawless in its execution, and left utter despair in its wake.

...seriously, either engage the other forum members in conversation (which you haven't done in three years, it looks like) or go read a book and come back in January 2014, and see where everything's at. There are better things you can be doing with your time than taking up a career as a Prophet of Doom.



I figure this will help lighten the mood around here.

[beernutts]

Calling it now: this will never be released.

rev79, I've been saying this for a LOOOONG time, probably 2002 or before.  Heck, they released SOMETHING, which is more than I thought they'd do, but it took em 10+ years to do.

[Say]

Well, will you look at that - sup Beernuts! Still drinking the hatorade, I see.

The one thing that I can honestly say from comments like this one is that you absolutely kill the morale of the current TSL team. That's all you achieve with comments like that.

[Delling]

... There are better things you can be doing with your time than taking up a career as a Prophet of Doom.

... O.O DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooo oooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooOOOOOO OOOOOOMmmmmmm...

Ahem, possibly there are not better things one could be doing if Doom in fact looks like that.

Seriously... *would prophesy for*

Also, where can one acquire some of this hatorade? Is it tasty? It must be tasty considering the quantities some willingly consume.

[snabbott]

The one thing that I can honestly say from comments like this one is that you absolutely kill the morale of the current TSL team. That's all you achieve with comments like that.

...or would if anyone took said comments seriously. Most people have been very supportive - there's just a vocal minority of trolls.

Even though they're 90-95% done with the final episode--and currently have funding, to boot--it'll never happen. Woe is me.

It's not that close, and there is no funding, since it's a volunteer project. I have played through the demo. It was pretty rough at the time (maybe a couple of months ago), but it's pretty cool!

Unfortunately, I lost all of my SVN working copies when I got laid off and had to return my work laptop. (I was careful to delete them first - we wouldn't want them falling into the wrong hands. ) I'm not sure my home laptop can handle them.

[beernutts]

Well, will you look at that - sup Beernuts! Still drinking the hatorade, I see.

The one thing that I can honestly say from comments like this one is that you absolutely kill the morale of the current TSL team. That's all you achieve with comments like that.

Alright, Say is back!  Ready to go at it again, round 2?

Naw, just kidding.  I wasn't really hating, shoot I gave some props that SOMETHING was published, which I didn't figure would happen way back when.

I just thought it was funny, rev79 has become the modern day Beernutts.

[beernutts]

Well, will you look at that - sup Beernuts! Still drinking the hatorade, I see.

The one thing that I can honestly say from comments like this one is that you absolutely kill the morale of the current TSL team. That's all you achieve with comments like that.

Oh, and for giggles, I looked back at my posts, and I found out we were friendly, before you got REALLY angry at me (July 2002): http://www.postudios.com/blog/forum/index.php?topic=360.msg7692#msg7692

[Numbers]

Even though they're 90-95% done with the final episode--and currently have funding, to boot...

It's not that close, and there is no funding, since it's a volunteer project. I have played through the demo. It was pretty rough at the time (maybe a couple of months ago), but it's pretty cool!

I was mostly referring to the fact that POS is making money off of Cognition now, when they didn't have those resources beforehand. At least, I hope they're making money.

And I got the impression that they were quite close to finishing the final episode, given that it's been a while since the release of episode 4. I do get that Cognition takes top priority right now, though, and that TSL's finale is on the back-burner until probably 2014. It's just that I can wait. And so can you. TSL's fans have waited so long to see how it ends, they can afford to wait just a little bit longer. And like I said, just come on here to talk or else find something else to do and check in every few months.

[falerin]

I doubt Episode 5 will make it out in my lifetime, to be honest. But it is not so simple as me being a Naysayer. See below.


I share the frustration  of some of the most cynical posters about the prolonged Delays for episode 5. Especially in light of the growing emphasis on first Cognition and now on both Face Noir and Moebius the latter of which are not even release yet only the first even having a preview. The problem is that with the public face of the team being so focused on these other profit making enterprises it becomes even more vital that the team communicate frequently about status and progress. I know this from both sides very well as I work in a secondary postion with a well known online game company that employs mostly volunteers in all of its games with only a few core paid staff and a few stipendiary contractors (and my particular game has regularly be cited being loved precisely because we are so community developer interactive). We pull it off because we interact almost daily with community members. The last official update sent out with any sort of progress I can readily find was over a year ago in August 2012 and it was saying no we will probably not have it by Christmas 2012. It looks very dubious that we will see it by that time in 2013 and possibly even 2014 at this juncture. Vaporware abounds and I am sure many of us have had it happen with games we were particularly looking forward to, engage in, or even were involved in go this route so in the absence of any communication in the presence of evidence of rapid development of other properties it is very easy to feel that the original project is being forgotten, neglected, or worse abandoned.We are not psychic and cannot see what you do.

Conversely I also have great sympathy for the team and faith that when Episode 5I also have an understanding of the importance of the platform change and of the challenges of learning Unity (as my company recently went this route)with another project only to have the rug pulled out from under us when Unity discontinued Flash Support.

I am wholly exited for the potential Unity offers and would love to seeing a stunning resolution to our journey.

Unfortuantely I have reason enough to believe, given my own declining health from numerous factors and including a mysterious autoimmune condition that has actually caused anaphylactic allergies to my own body (the sort of allergic reaction that kills you) that I may never in fact get the chance to see that resolution as it may well not make it out in my lifetime.
William

[gem_sky]

I understand that it takes time and there were complications with Unity.  My only source of frustration is that a release is teased, and then taken away.  There was talk of a 2012 release at one point.  I think that if communication was perhaps more transparent (for example, "Don't expect episode 5 before Dec 2014), people would be satisfied with the information, and would leave the subject alone.

[Numbers]

Sorry about your health issues, falerin. An aesop that TSL has been trying to teach us is to follow our dreams (why else do you think the game often dips into dreamworld realms?). Perhaps you can dream about how you want TSL to end; who knows, if you do see the finale, you might not even like it. Maybe you, like the POS team, can use your imagination and have the story end the way you would want it to end. I've thought about how I wanted some franchises to end, and I'm perfectly content with imagining my ending over the real thing. In fact, I dream up new, horrific ways the Twilight series could have ended every day.

Back to the communication issues POS seems to be facing; I think they've got too much stuff on their plate, really. TSL seemed to be chugging along just fine, until Cognition was announced. Suddenly, the forums are all about Cognition, and TSL barely gets any advertising space. Now, this is all well and good, since they obviously intend to finish what they started. But then, Face Noir and Moebius come along. And, as falerin said, the last official TSL update was in August 2012, saying that we wouldn't get anything by the year's end. The PR for TSL at this point is almost completely non-existant. And the implication that they can't tell us about anything TSL-related because there really is nothing they can tell us about it is very discouraging.

At this point, I'd advise they be more upfront about the progress they've made. It's been more than a year since we've heard anything official about it. I, for one, say we should start a Q&A session with the developers. First question: at the end of TSL, will Cedric get all the blood in one of his legs sucked out by mosquitoes, while one of his wings gets burned off, and also while his beak gets smashed by a rock, so he can barely talk and hobble around and be mentally and physically scarred for the rest of his puny little life?

If the answer is no, well...as I said before, you can always dream, right?

 

[Say]

Well, will you look at that - sup Beernuts! Still drinking the hatorade, I see.

The one thing that I can honestly say from comments like this one is that you absolutely kill the morale of the current TSL team. That's all you achieve with comments like that.

Alright, Say is back!  Ready to go at it again, round 2?

Naw, just kidding.  I wasn't really hating, shoot I gave some props that SOMETHING was published, which I didn't figure would happen way back when.

I just thought it was funny, rev79 has become the modern day Beernutts.

No way, Beernuts. You're forever #speshul to us. Wannabe are not welcome to apply.


To address some quick replies regarding this situation over here.

@snabbott - I understand where you're coming from, however I think it's disrespectful to just flat out call anyone a troll here considering there's validity to what they're saying. I undersand the frustration, but I won't call people names for it but I don't believe repeating the same frustration over and over is productive whatsoever either.

The team does read this, unfortunately not as many that know as much as I do would be so open to come here and reply any of these things.

@falerin & 929572 - I don't even know why people keep relating or merging together Cognition with TSL, the teams are completely different - they don't even share the same production coordinator. If anything we've got people from Cognition (programmers and directors) giving their unpaid time to work extra hours on TSL. Not something I believe most of you knew about, but I hope it is clear now.

The updates are 100% related to production, ever since I've been back in late 2012 I've done nothing but become a pest and I'm sure back to being the hated individual I once was in the team. I do know there are people working on this because I see the skype meetings, chats and overall movement in this regard. However, I am not authorized yet to speak, share or distribute absolutely anything unless production hit their milestones as scheduled.

The bright side is that now that some directors are at freedom to do more than just a few hours over the weekend, I'm positive it may move faster than it has been so far.

This is a new team, yes - they have a different pace, yes. Unfortunately we can't have any money or investment put into TSL due to ATVI agreements, therefore the work speed of this team is different to the pacing you knew from the guys developing Cognition and Moebius nowadays. And I must say, Phoenix is nothing but thankful of all these people who volunteer and believe in TSL and day after day dedicate their time and talent to it, unfortunately having full time day jobs gives them room of prob an hour or two daily to fully sit down and revise pipelines.

Sorry is not the answer any of you want and by far the update any of you wanted, it's been years now since the last time the last episode was relased - I think we're all clear on that. At this point the one thing that will be suffice would be the final build released, we all know this.

I do know first hand none of the Phoenix directors wanted to drop TSL for good or stop production entirely on it, reason why it was delegated to a different team so they'd move forward with it while the company could work on Cognition and Moebius, and while it's not the speed you all would have wanted to do know there is work being done and there will be updates by the end of the year on this.

My comment, which I truly meant from the bottom of my heart, is that even though TSL crew does not post here they do read everything you post and while I may understand your stress and frustration regarding such delay in the release, the people working on the other side losing sleep over this does get their morale crushed every single long ass post they see because they feel pretty damn hopeless to be unable to work faster for all of you.

I can't make them happy, I can't make you guys happy but all I can do is at least be as honest as I can about it. Hopefully both sides will understand how each other feel.

Again, a thousand times sorry for this. I guess if we could find a way to pay these individuals full time to work on a game that is for free, we would - sadly, Phoenix does not have the means to make this happen, however we belive and we appreciate everything the current crew does to make this happen.

[GrahamRocks!]

Thanks, Say frand. I admit, I'm anxious for ep.5 mostly due to the cliffhanger and just the impeccable writing and acting. Although, Cognition helps lessen my anxiety since that's REALLY good so far as well!

But, I told myself when I joined you guys that I would be patient. I was a latecomer to POS, and I didn't even know who you guys were until a couple years ago, and thusly was kinda... spoiled on TSL. Because I'd had all four episodes out at the time, I had less time to wait than the people who've been waiting for years for this game to even be released.

I'm trying to be more positive, so... keep up the great work, you guys!

[nntsguy]

To preface: I've been an adventure gamer since the ripe old age of... five. Staying up late (i.e. 8:30 pm) with my father as he would traverse the magical kingdom of Daventry, I was mesmerized. In fact, to this day, I attribute my entire devotion to gaming to the best of the best: Sierra and Lucasarts, with Roberta Williams  being the best. So, when, two years ago I read in Game Informer that a small group of fellow fans decided to devote and donate their time, resources and energy into a project of love for that which I also love, I felt tears of joy as my heart skipped a beat - no hyperbole. I am forever grateful to those men and women who have spent their efforts getting this far, and provide such a wonderful and beautiful story continuing the adventures of King Graham, family and friends.

In response to the frustration that some are feeling concerning the extended period of time between chapters 4 and 5: The last KQ game that really gripped me was KQ VI, and I'm sure I'm not alone. The Princeless Bride was beautiful in it's own way, but it didn't draw me as the previous entries; MoE... left something to be desired (And that's all I can say on that). So, I'm left with a gap between KQ VI and TSL of 18 years. 18 years I waited patiently for something to capture even a small fraction of the excitement I felt playing through the original King's Quests. 18 years I searched through other series' in a return to the magic and love I felt for what Ms. Williams so elegantly delivered. 18 years I spent replaying the Quests (King's, Space, For Glory, Longbow (my personal favorite of all time - segue complete), Camelot) to recommit my adoration for the genre and the dedication that went into them. And now...
Now I can rest happy having found something that once again captures all the magic and wonder that the originals had. I have spent countless hours with Graham again. I could once again walk around the Land of the Green Isles and see the beauty the Phoenix Team brought to it. Heck, I choked back tears with the first two simple words: "To Roberta." Kudos to you for acknowledging why we're all here: why so many of us are gamers in the first place.

In closing: (TLDR?) Phoenix Online, I will never be able to express the happiness you've brought even this one man. I waited 18 years to find this gem, and I will easily wait another 18 for full closure (if need be). What you have given me already fulfills a long-awaited dream come true. From the poignancy of the beautiful score, to the grace of every character's design; from each word in the script to the exquisitely crafted puzzles, you have all outdone yourselves and should be proud. Bless you all, you magnificent b******s. Keep up the good work... at your own pace. I will still be here, excited, whenever you're ready.

[KatieHal]

Aw, thank you nntsguy! And welcome to the forums. Those are lovely words to hear, and I'm so glad we've helped bring back the magic of KQ for you even in some small dose! Thank you for that, your support, and your patience, all are truly appreciated.

[Say]

Thank you for the love GrahamRocks, nntsguy!

On positive news, coming from a personal initiative - I have been raiding TSL poduction stuff and now Media team is working very hard in providing some goodies to show your way, there's quite a few things to share. Still revising what all I can share and what I can't but do know there will be quite some new things to see.

I have got no release date for the game so the blog is not about that, there will be an announcement later this year (nothing to confirm just yet) but do know that we will be doing a Phoenix Exclusive with TSL over http://postudios.tumblr.com - We did one with Face Noir, we are currently working on Shadows on the Vaticans as we speak and the next one in queue is TSL. Heavy in content and it will bring as much as I'm cleared to show from Ep5 content.