Author Topic: Enough is enough  (Read 95577 times)

Offline mimbutzki

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Enough is enough
« on: January 05, 2014, 12:33:54 PM »
I canīt stand it anymore. Itīs really annoying. I know you have to earn money with your other games so you can process TSL Ep5. But all we get to hear is "We are working on it." and "I promise there is some process in the thing." The latest official news on the homepage is dated on march 2013. Thatīs almost a year now. Did all the process you talked about in the forums over the last year produce nothing, we fans can get to see? Do you need a reminder that we fans are the guys who buy your games? You made propaganda for you in other forums? Itīs just so annoying that we get nothing in return but (until now) empty promises that you still work on it. We want some real news about this. If there is a demo for the directors, show us some pics or videos. How is the music department working? Or the how is the dubing going on? Whats going on? Describe the processes you are doing. Please give us something. Give us a glimose on the game we can take seriously as process.

Offline Intendant S

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Re: Enough is enough
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2014, 01:18:24 PM »
I can't speak for the development team, but I will say this. TSL is a free game, and from my understanding it's being worked on by volunteers during their free time. There are threads out there that are showing off some artwork, so it's something to whet your appetite. Yes, I'm sure it's really annoying not seeing anything new for a long time, but they're not obligated to show stuff off. You can ask for more, and do please ask nicely, don't demand it. Even most games that you have to pay for don't show off works in progress.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2014, 01:20:19 PM by Intendant S »
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Offline waltzdancing

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Re: Enough is enough
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2014, 09:15:29 PM »
Exactly enough is enough. I don't hang out on these forums very much anymore because of that exact negativity that as a volunteer and fan I don't need from other fans. We are working our hardest to get this game out there for you to play but if I had to pick between finishing this game for you or my own welfare, I'm sorry but the game is going to lose every single time because I'm more important that putting my whole life on hold.

We are working on it. If you are fed up with it then that's fine. Telling the whole world about it isn't going to change anything or make me and my team move any faster than what we are doing. To give you a little insight on what goes on in the volunteer world here is my daily life.

I wake up at 6am Monday through Friday so I can get on the road at 7am so I can be at work by 8. Then I teach 6-7 year old lessons they could care less about, because all they want to do it bite and hit each other. I do that for 8 hours. I now have the government coming down telling me on when and how I should teach the lesson as well as deal with an administration that cannot make disciplinary decisions. I then get back in the car at 4pm drive another hour until I get home. Do what I need to do around the house and get ready for the next day. After doing all that, I sit down and work on TSL until I have to go to bed at 9pm.

So after all that, I get maybe 1-2 hours of TSL stuff done. I'm not going to say anything about the development until there is actually something to show and say. If you want to see the game out faster then try helping us by offering us support instead of cutting us down because we need all the support we can get.

Offline Jack Stryker

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Re: Enough is enough
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2014, 09:29:38 PM »
Maybe you should keep this proverb in mind:

A delayed game is eventually good, a rushed game is forever bad.

Offline wilco64256

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Re: Enough is enough
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2014, 06:48:27 PM »
Maybe you should keep this proverb in mind:

A delayed game is eventually good, a rushed game is forever bad.

Haha that's a fantastic statement and very true.
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Offline Numbers

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Re: Enough is enough
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2014, 07:09:12 PM »
Maybe you should keep this proverb in mind:

A delayed game is eventually good, a rushed game is forever bad.

And then we have games that are delayed and rushed. And how do those turn out? I refer you to Duke Nukem Forever and Diablo 3.
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Offline calmlunatic

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Re: Enough is enough
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2014, 09:10:50 PM »
Maybe you should keep this proverb in mind:

A delayed game is eventually good, a rushed game is forever bad.

And then we have games that are delayed and rushed. And how do those turn out? I refer you to Duke Nukem Forever and Diablo 3.

I bought Diablo 3 and played it for roughly 2 weeks...didn't even kill Diablo or whoever the final boss was (I came close, though). But for me it was essentially the same as Diablo 2: Kill monsters, get gear, level up. Rinse, repeat. Twice. For some strange reason I was invested in the storyline until I realized it ended 1/3 of the way through the game. That's why I like this series. Each new chapter provides more of the story.

Ok. Now to change gears completely.

If I may ask a question about the development that does not involve dates/deadlines etc.: A while ago, before the new engine and updated graphics were being worked on/with, I asked if it was possible to modify the game so that the dialogue could be controlled by the mouse: left click skipped to the next sentence and right click skipped to the next important part of dialogue. I remember this being a convenient part of the previous (Sierra) games as it allowed me to advance through dialogue I'd already seen if I was recovering after a death from, say, falling off of a cliff, or starving to death in a desert. At the time you said it wasn't possible with the way the current programming was being done. Now that you're working with new resources I'm wondering if the same thing is possible.

Cheers.
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Offline mimbutzki

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Re: Enough is enough
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2014, 03:55:17 AM »
I am sorry, if I did offend anyone. But I read through the threads on this board. And everyone gets the same answer to the question "How is it going". For more than a year now this "we are still working on it" was all we got. And this fact just freaked me out. But I have to thank you waltzdancing. You gave me glimpse on the inside. Ok Itīs more pirvate details of your live, but itīs something. And when you need help, then ask us! We are more willing to help you than youīll know. I havenīt found a thing on the forum about "Help us finish it." So where do you need help? What can we do to support you and the other volunteers?

Offline RusseM

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Re: Enough is enough
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2014, 09:43:28 AM »
Keep up the good work TSL team we know your working hard. So were looking forward to a nice job well done game when it finish. It will be worth it.

Offline Old_Crow

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Re: Enough is enough
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2014, 10:09:25 AM »
Look at it this way: You could be a "Wolf Among Us" (Telltalegames) fan waiting for episode two.    The difference is that fans prepaid for that game and the 15-week wait between the episodes is enough to raise your dander.    The level of frustration is being based on the money they've invested.

With KQ:SL, I have already been *given* a fun experience.    If they never make the final chapter, I am well ahead because I paid zero dollars for the experience.

If the completion of the story is important to you, I recommend you never play "Dreamfall" or "A Vampyre Story" because those were cliffhangers that may never see a conclusion.    I suppose I've experience enough incomplete stories to give a group of volunteers all the slack they need.

Offline wilco64256

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Re: Enough is enough
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2014, 05:11:29 PM »
Look at it this way: You could be a "Wolf Among Us" (Telltalegames) fan waiting for episode two.    The difference is that fans prepaid for that game and the 15-week wait between the episodes is enough to raise your dander.    The level of frustration is being based on the money they've invested.

With KQ:SL, I have already been *given* a fun experience.    If they never make the final chapter, I am well ahead because I paid zero dollars for the experience.

If the completion of the story is important to you, I recommend you never play "Dreamfall" or "A Vampyre Story" because those were cliffhangers that may never see a conclusion.    I suppose I've experience enough incomplete stories to give a group of volunteers all the slack they need.

I wonder if you weren't aware of this:

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/redthread/dreamfall-chapters-the-longest-journey?ref=live
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Offline tripp6sic6

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Re: Enough is enough
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2014, 06:33:53 PM »
Exactly enough is enough. I don't hang out on these forums very much anymore because of that exact negativity that as a volunteer and fan I don't need from other fans. We are working our hardest to get this game out there for you to play but if I had to pick between finishing this game for you or my own welfare, I'm sorry but the game is going to lose every single time because I'm more important that putting my whole life on hold.

We are working on it. If you are fed up with it then that's fine. Telling the whole world about it isn't going to change anything or make me and my team move any faster than what we are doing. To give you a little insight on what goes on in the volunteer world here is my daily life.

I wake up at 6am Monday through Friday so I can get on the road at 7am so I can be at work by 8. Then I teach 6-7 year old lessons they could care less about, because all they want to do it bite and hit each other. I do that for 8 hours. I now have the government coming down telling me on when and how I should teach the lesson as well as deal with an administration that cannot make disciplinary decisions. I then get back in the car at 4pm drive another hour until I get home. Do what I need to do around the house and get ready for the next day. After doing all that, I sit down and work on TSL until I have to go to bed at 9pm.

So after all that, I get maybe 1-2 hours of TSL stuff done. I'm not going to say anything about the development until there is actually something to show and say. If you want to see the game out faster then try helping us by offering us support instead of cutting us down because we need all the support we can get.
Any reasonable person sees your point, but you also have to see ours, as well.

You can't blame a fan base for being upset that the never bothered to finish their first game before moving on to other projects.  Especially since the perception, right or wrong, is that the partial game is being used to springboard the other projects.  It just feels dirty all around.

What it means to me as a potential customer is that I wouldn't pay for a game by POS, because they can't keep their promise to fans who have stuck with them for this amount of time.

Maybe you should keep this proverb in mind:

A delayed game is eventually good, a rushed game is forever bad.
Duke Nukem Forever...

I rest my case.

Offline boopish

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Re: Enough is enough
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2014, 10:50:04 PM »
Please let me apologize on behalf of tripp6sic6. I am not sure what mindset I would have to adopt in order to make comments such as those made, but I imagine the mindset would be an unflattering addition to my life. I would hope if ever my mindset did turn to such a negative view, I would take up volunteer work while working full time to help bring some perspective into my life.

Offline Numbers

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Re: Enough is enough
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2014, 02:08:36 PM »
Tripp6sic6, did you even read the entirety of this thread before posting in it?
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Offline br305893

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Re: Enough is enough
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2014, 05:24:45 PM »
Keep calm people, it will come when it's ready.
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Offline MangoMercury

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Re: Enough is enough
« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2014, 01:33:04 PM »
I love how someone like Tripp comes in, who has registered a few years ago and posted twice, and comes out with drivel like that.

As mentioned in another thread, I have been following this project for 11 years.  I've been registered for 11 years and, although I've not always been active on the forums, I have been in touch with members on the forums.  I can't recall ever having whined or complained about how long this is taking to complete because I know nobody who is working on it is getting any money.  They're doing it purely from their love of the series, which has seen the project go through two C&D's and numerous changes of staff.

I have faith that one day, the project will come to fruition.  It may or may not be any time soon, but I know that nobody who is working on the project would lie and say they are working on it if they're actually not.
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Offline br305893

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Re: Enough is enough
« Reply #16 on: February 24, 2014, 06:40:07 PM »
I love how someone like Tripp comes in, who has registered a few years ago and posted twice, and comes out with drivel like that.

As mentioned in another thread, I have been following this project for 11 years.  I've been registered for 11 years and, although I've not always been active on the forums, I have been in touch with members on the forums.  I can't recall ever having whined or complained about how long this is taking to complete because I know nobody who is working on it is getting any money.  They're doing it purely from their love of the series, which has seen the project go through two C&D's and numerous changes of staff.

I have faith that one day, the project will come to fruition.  It may or may not be any time soon, but I know that nobody who is working on the project would lie and say they are working on it if they're actually not.

Well said.
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Offline tripp6sic6

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Re: Enough is enough
« Reply #17 on: February 27, 2014, 05:40:38 AM »
I love how you people sit on your high horse and ignore my unpopular, but reasonable, opinion.

There have been literally no updates on the main page about this game in almost 1 year.  It's been almost 2.5 years since the last episode was released.  In that period of time, 5 paid games have been announced by Phoenix Online.  It's very clear that this free game is no longer a priority to the people who announced it in the first place.

This isn't meant to be any disrespect to the volunteers actually working on the game.  It isn't even aimed at them at all.  It is aimed toward the people managing the company.

I understand the choice to move toward games they can actually make money on.  It makes a lot of sense.  At some point though, you have to consider that this episode being delayed affects the reputation of the company and staff the project appropriately.

As for my comment about not buying the commercial games, I admit that was worded a little more strongly than it should have been.  My point was that most people who didn't get what they expected here, aren't going to voice their opinion, they are simply going to move on and never come back.

If you don't agree, that's fine, but this is my point of view and I'd bet there are a lot of people who share it and have already given up on the project.


EDIT: Also, I may not have posted, but I have followed this project through all of the copyright troubles in its infancy.  Not posting in here doesn't make me any less entitled to my opinion.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2014, 05:44:13 AM by tripp6sic6 »

Offline Intendant S

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Re: Enough is enough
« Reply #18 on: February 27, 2014, 01:30:59 PM »
First off, the team on TSL are, as you said, volunteers. They offer their free time to work on the game. I'm sure most (if not all) have day jobs that require their time and attention, too. That would cut into development time. And how do you know that the top management doesn't care? I'm sure they care a lot.

Secondly, they're only developing for three paid games...one of which has been finished since last year (Cognition) and another that's in the home stretch (Moebius). The rest they're only publishing. Other companies are developing for those titles.

I'm willing to wait for the final episode of TSL. For the reasons I cited above. I can't speak for anyone else, but that's MY opinion.
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Offline Say

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Re: Enough is enough
« Reply #19 on: February 27, 2014, 02:18:57 PM »

I canīt stand it anymore. Itīs really annoying. I know you have to earn money with your other games so you can process TSL Ep5. But all we get to hear is "We are working on it." and "I promise there is some process in the thing." The latest official news on the homepage is dated on march 2013. Thatīs almost a year now. Did all the process you talked about in the forums over the last year produce nothing, we fans can get to see? Do you need a reminder that we fans are the guys who buy your games? You made propaganda for you in other forums? Itīs just so annoying that we get nothing in return but (until now) empty promises that you still work on it. We want some real news about this. If there is a demo for the directors, show us some pics or videos. How is the music department working? Or the how is the dubing going on? Whats going on? Describe the processes you are doing. Please give us something. Give us a glimose on the game we can take seriously as process.

Media team worked on a big update for TSL since November 2013, it took us a while to gather up - the team is scattered all over and as you probably have read also with daytime jobs. Luckily, most of TSL artist/coders are nothing but sweet and they were very patient with us as we continued to pester for updates and digging through database content revising pretty much everything.

The updates are mostly done, clearly everyone in my team has got a schedule to work with and Phoenix Online Publishing has been placed as a priority with the arrival of new Directors into the team. I have been put on hold with the media project we were releasing; I can say however, it's been a lot of work because on top of hunting down all the updates developers can't put together for you, we are creating new content for you going along with the updates. It is not the game, I get it; but it's about the game and that's the best I can do for now.

I am only the Social Media Director here, while we handle and go through so many games now the one and only promise I can give you is to bring this up next meeting to see when exactly all the content can be released. I do apologize for the delay, the pacing and clearly the prioritizing we've done - as part of Phoenix I am someone who once worked in the game back when, and I honestly cannot wait until it's all out there.

The one and only thing I would kindly ask for is not to clump the other games into this situation, because fact is every single game has got a different development group of people - Moebius, Cognition, Face Noir, Quest for Infamy, The Last Door and Lost Civilization are completely different people from The Silver Lining team development group; some are completely different studios which we want nothing more but to help get through. People that may not have the tools or the means to distribute or let alone the coverage we can help provide, it's just not fair to them - they're all indies and it hurts them more than any would openly admit.

Development teams, production team and even marketing/pr teams are completely different inside of Phoenix. While some of us may not be able to do much of a difference from the development pipelines, we can most certainly do something about updates on them. I will bring this into attention to those who decide on this, and hopefully there's more info to be had soon enough. Thank you for the patience, even if we haven't given you many choices but to just wait for it and sorry for letting some of you down, I am thankful there are some of you that still follow through with us and call us out when needed to - most people would just give up and walk away.


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