Author Topic: TSL vs the Originals vs the VGA  (Read 14966 times)

Offline daventry

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TSL vs the Originals vs the VGA
« on: October 24, 2014, 02:58:45 PM »
01. It is a known fact that TSL uses the Original KQ Games and Timeline, yet nothing is mentioned from the VGA Games for obvious reasons. Dont get me wrong i Love them to bits, but still i wished AGDI kept to the Originals. Why the Change and differences, heavily noticeable in KQ2VGA-KQ3VGA.

02. Why are there Two Versions of KQ3VGA by AGDI and Infamous Adventures

03. Is KQ3VGA by Infamous Adventures close to the Original, or should i keep the KQ3EGA Version Canon with TSL so to speak.

04. Could KQ1VGA follow the TSL Timeline, since the VGA Game from AGDI is like 99.99% the same as the EGA and SCI Version.

05. When KQ 2015 comes out, would TSL be in the Timeline of the KQ Series Franchise as KQ9, or is TSL just a Fan Game in their own way. Hence KQ 2015 could be KQ9
Original KQ1 - Possibly KQ1VGA aswell
Original KQ2
Original KQ3
KQ4
KQ5
KQ6
KQ7
MOE
TSL - Could be considered Fan Made or KQ9
KQ 2015 could be KQ9 or could be KQ10

06. What is the Backstory of TSL from the KQ Series and im not talking about TSL itself, im talking about Why is TSL made that left Questions unanswered in the KQ Series.
Spoiler (mouse over to reveal):

07. Is MOE considered Canaon in the KQ World, hence TSL mentions MOE and Connor, but many People believe its just a RPG Game with KQ slapped on it.

08. If TSL is a Fan Game and not mentioned in KQ 2015 would the Timeline be set after MOE in witch we can assume Gwendolyn is the Child of Alexander and Cassima in witch Rosella isent married yet to Edgar, thus hoping in KQ 2015 she will be Married.

09. I wonder why one Child is mentioned in KQ 2015 would that mean Alexander or Rosella doesent have a Child.

10. If in KQ 2015 they mentioned Rosella Married Edgar, then they would Rule Daventry as the New King and Queen with Connor being the General Knight of the Castle i assume.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2014, 03:23:52 PM by daventry »

Offline stika

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Re: TSL vs the Originals vs the VGA
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2014, 06:37:46 AM »
TSL is completely non-canon, I doubt the upcoming King's Quest game would consider its existence. At best we MIGHT see an easter egg, but even that is highly unlikely.

Also, I was under the impression the upcoming King's Quest was a reboot/ re-imagining? So it likely won't even take into account the other official Sierra games.

Offline daventry

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Re: TSL vs the Originals vs the VGA
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2014, 07:26:14 AM »
That make sense and would you be so kind as to answer ALL my Questions please  :rofl:
« Last Edit: October 25, 2014, 03:17:27 PM by daventry »

Offline Numbers

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Re: TSL vs the Originals vs the VGA
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2014, 12:11:44 PM »
Regarding the TSL-related questions, it's likely that Stika either doesn't know or can't say without spoiling episode 5.

Regarding the KQ reboot questions, again, nobody knows enough details to answer those questions yet.

As for the other questions, you've got a ton of them, and it would take time to answer them all. Be patient.
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Offline JDHJANUS

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Re: TSL vs the Originals vs the VGA
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2014, 10:05:41 AM »
I can answer some of these questions based on my research.

1. ADGI wanted to improve upon some of the plot inconsistencies in KQII-III. Although KQI was an obvious fetch quest, KQII's storyline was very sparse and there was a lot of things never explained, even in the background material. ADGI wanted to improve upon the storyline and help try to provide a more cohesive overall storyline of the series.

2. Blackthorne and Klytos (the heads of Infamous Adventures) stated that King's Quest III was one of their favorite King's Quest games, and so for the first game that they decided to remake, they thought that King's Quest III would be the best choice. The IA team was still fairly inexperienced, as KQIII was the first game that they remade. ADGI had also been planning on remaking KQIII and IV in order to bring the games' stories more in line with the story that they had set up with the KQII Remake. They ended up never starting development on a King's Quest IV remake, as they instead went commercial and formed Himalaya Studios.

3. KQIII by IA is closer to the original than the ADGI version; however, they did have added scenes, and a few new characters. You can see some of the stuff here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King%27s_Quest_III:_To_Heir_Is_Human_(Infamous_Adventures)

4. The King's Quest I VGA remake is a literal point and click remake of the SCI-0 remake, with no real differences that I am aware of (besides the obvious gameplay/graphical updates).

5. Stika already said this, but TSL is a fan game, and as such, I'm pretty sure The Odd Gentlemen will probably not consider it canon. They may throw a random easter egg or something, but I wouldn't hold my breath.  From my understanding, they're only planning on keeping the original developed games canon.

6. I haven't played TSL yet; however, as you mentioned, The Black Cloak Society was something that Jane Jensen came up with, and while it is obviously canon, the only specific people in it are Manannan, Mordack, Shadrack, and Alhazred. Roberta has specifically said that she never intended Hagatha to be connected or related to any of the above. That is something the Peter Spear, author of the King's Quest Companion came up with. In fact, there's a lot of stuff that is "quasi-canon" based off of the Kings' Quest Companion books, such as Tamir and Llewdor sharing the same continent; Daventry and Serenia sharing the same continent, etc. While there's nothing in the games to contradict this, it is never explicitly stated either. To answer your spoiler question, there is nothing mentioned in the games about that character's connection to the organization that you stated. I will say that the "Silver Cloak Society" is not mentioned in any of the King's Quest games, to my knowledge.

7. Mask of Eternity is considered canon by Roberta herself. I'm betting that it will at least get a reference in the new King's Quest game, but I'm not sure how much it will be referenced. The game itself, while being an obvious departure from the original direction of the series, is still technically considered to be an adventure (albeit an action-adventure), and it definitely was the direction that Roberta felt the series should be going in that time. Not sure as to how much of canon it is considered by TSL, but since TSL is technically not considered canon, it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of the series.

8. The game is set far into the future, old enough that Graham would have a granddaughter to be telling stories to, and who would be able to sit there and enjoy them. Neither King's Quest VII nor MOE have any specific dates associated with them, so it's difficult to place them in a coherent timeline. You could make the argument that they could even happen at the same  time, which would explain why you don't see Valanice and Rosella in Mask of Eternity, although this is pure conjecture. I'm guessing that the new KQ game will be set after both KQVII and MOE, though.

9. Perhaps that child is merely the oldest and the one who wants to hear Graham's stories. If Rosella did end up with Edgar, then she and he are probably off in Etheria anyways, and I'm not sure how well travel works between the two worlds. Maybe Gwendolyn is visiting Grandpa in Daventry because she's the oldest? Again, we won't know too much until we get closer to the release of the game.

10. This is a good question. Edgar is obvious Prince of Etheria, but at the same time, fairies in fiction can sometimes have much longer lifespans than normal humans, so it's possible that Oberon and Titania could live and rule over Etheria for many more years, thus freeing up Edgar and Rosella to rule Daventry. Again, the games themselves do not really give us any particular details about who will end up the ruler of Daventry. Perhaps a Knight like good Sir Graham back in the original King's Quest I will end up taking over? This may be something that is addressed in the new game.

Stika- you had mentioned that the new game is supposed to be a re-imaging/reboot? I wasn't aware of that. From my understanding and conversations with The Odd Gentlemen, I was under the impression that they were planning on keeping the lore of the original King's Quest games intact. I was under the impression that this is more like a revival (like the 2005 Doctor Who show).

Hope I addressed all of your questions. If I got any of my wires crossed and made a mistake, I apologize in advance.

Talk to you later!

JDHJANUS
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« Last Edit: October 27, 2014, 03:06:27 PM by JDHJANUS »
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Offline daventry

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Re: TSL vs the Originals vs the VGA
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2014, 10:45:37 AM »
Fantastic on answering the Questions, Thanks  :suffer:

01. I liked how AGDI Extended the Storyline with KQ2VGA-KQ3VGA but the only let down that made 0 sense was the Father, why could they not leave him out in the first place. That reminds me from what i saw in KQ2VGA, wish they added a Town for Daventry in their KQ1VGA like MOE did.

03. Im keeping All the Original KQ Games, except KQ1 in witch im sticking with the VGA Version from AGDI Thus im no longer interested in KQ2VGA-KQ3VGA I suppose i could keep the KQ3VGA from IA since its Close to the Original as can be with the Minor add on of Mordack though in witch the Spoiler Ending makes sense. What was KQ3 v3.0 gonna fix.

08. I think i read somewhere that KQ7 and MOE is infact within the Same Timeline. So by the time Rosella and Valanice comes back to Daventry, they would assume Nothing happened at all until Graham starts asking where they have been in witch they would know Nothing about the MOE.

10. I read the Story of Rosella from the KQ Omnipedia that Rosella and Edgar now Rules Daventry, so we might see King Edgar and Queen Rosella on the Throne in KQ 2015
« Last Edit: October 28, 2014, 12:29:17 AM by daventry »

Offline Numbers

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Re: TSL vs the Originals vs the VGA
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2014, 11:03:02 AM »
Yeah, I really wish the Father had been killed off at the end of KQ2+, thus freeing up other bad guys to take over the Black Cloaks in his place. That's about my only complaint with the AGDI games, though. I actually think they're vastly superior to the originals, which I thought sucked pretty badly. The originals are completely unplayable by today's standards, while the remakes look better, sound better, play better, and have better stories. I know that if I ever write fanfiction about the first three games, I'm definitely going to follow the AGDI stories rather than the originals.
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Offline Jack Stryker

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Re: TSL vs the Originals vs the VGA
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2014, 12:15:56 PM »
I don't know... I liked that in AGD's KQ3 remake, you got to see what the Father was searching for and why he wanted Graham's crown.  Plus, the look on his face when he found it smashed was priceless.  I wish we could see a continuation from that though, where he's ultimately defeated for good.

Offline GrahamRocks!

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Re: TSL vs the Originals vs the VGA
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2014, 04:27:01 PM »
Um, daventry? I don't think KQ7 and MOE take place at the same time.

Know why? Because that would mean Connor's adventure was only 15 minutes long. That's how long Graham had been waiting for Valanice and Rosella to show up for lunch.

Offline daventry

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Re: TSL vs the Originals vs the VGA
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2014, 11:08:28 PM »
If time is that fast in Eldritch, then technically Valanice and Rosella should be a little Older upon their return. If Rosella and Edgar Marries and live in Eldritch, then in one day Daventry time, Rosella would be an Old Lady or Dead of Old Age
« Last Edit: October 28, 2014, 12:13:29 AM by daventry »

Offline stika

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Re: TSL vs the Originals vs the VGA
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2014, 07:54:08 AM »
I assume Mask of Eternity takes place after 7, though then again, I always felt the whole timeline and even the lore got kinda iffy after 6 :P

Offline GrahamRocks!

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Re: TSL vs the Originals vs the VGA
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2014, 08:49:17 AM »
............... *sighs in annoyance* KQ7 doesn't take place over years. This is not Narnia. A few hours or a day is not that big a gap.

Offline Numbers

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Re: TSL vs the Originals vs the VGA
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2014, 09:06:01 AM »
We also don't know how long most of the games take place in real time, either. KQ4 and KQ2+ for sure take place over a period of two days, thanks to the day/night cycle in them. It seems everything that's happened in TSL episodes 1-4 is only two days, as well. But we don't have any idea how long Graham was searching for the three lost treasures of Daventry in KQ1, or exactly what the real length of time is between Manannan's meals, given that he really shouldn't be hungry or sleeping or traveling all within a few minutes of each other as it appears in the game. And obviously, Alexander sailing from Llewdor to Daventry was much longer than 15 or so minutes. And even though MoE is the longest game in the series, for all we know, it took place over a couple hours.
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Offline JDHJANUS

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Re: TSL vs the Originals vs the VGA
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2014, 02:57:01 PM »
 
Um, daventry? I don't think KQ7 and MOE take place at the same time.

Know why? Because that would mean Connor's adventure was only 15 minutes long. That's how long Graham had been waiting for Valanice and Rosella to show up for lunch.

GrahamRocks, where does it say in the game that Graham was waiting for only 15 minutes? I don't remember him appearing in the game at all! There is a line of dialog by Graham that's in the resource files of the game, but it never made it into the game itself, which doesn't make it canon.

Just curious.

Talk to you later!

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Offline daventry

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Re: TSL vs the Originals vs the VGA
« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2014, 01:17:31 AM »
Apparently in the KQ Omnipedia it says that

Offline stika

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Re: TSL vs the Originals vs the VGA
« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2014, 08:08:15 AM »
Huh... does it cite any sources?

Offline JDHJANUS

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Re: TSL vs the Originals vs the VGA
« Reply #16 on: October 29, 2014, 08:13:51 AM »
Ah. Apparently, the 15 minute thing is from the King's Quest Companion, which is a questionable source, for sure, as I mentioned earlier. :)

Taking the Companion out of the picture, you could theoretically presume that King's Quest VII and MOE happened concurrently, as there's nothing in the games to contradict this. Then again, MOE could be set a few years after KQVII as well. It's difficult to really say. I had always presumed that it was set after, and had never even considered the idea of them being set concurrently until a friend  of mine pointed out that they could have happened at the same time. Whatever the case, they're both clearly set after King's Quest VI, as all three characters have notably aged in their following appearances.

I know that The Odd Gentlemen founder Matt Korba owns and has read the 4th edition of the KQC, so I'm curious to see if anything from the book will make their way into the games (like how Jane Jensen borrowed the name Derek Karlevaegan for the Guidebook to the Land of the Green Isles...)

Talk to you later!

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Please tell me the answer. Is fate unchangeable? Even at his most powerless, man's existence is never without meaning. - Suikoden's Intro

Offline stika

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Re: TSL vs the Originals vs the VGA
« Reply #17 on: October 29, 2014, 08:43:57 AM »
That's pretty interesting though. I like to think that the King's Quest lore is generally pretty malleable but it's still interesting to learn these tidbits from the companion books! :D

Offline Rock Knight

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Re: TSL vs the Originals vs the VGA
« Reply #18 on: November 21, 2014, 03:48:59 PM »
The "15 minutes late to lunch" line comes from KQVII itself. Graham was originally supposed to make a cameo appearance at the very end, and indeed, a sound file of Graham saying this line is buried within the game itself, and an actor is credited in-game for Graham's voice. It's not Josh Mandel, because he'd left Sierra by the time KQ7 was underway.

As for the Companion's status, Roberta gave it her blessing back in the day and said it was a necessary book, necessary to further understanding her games, and Jane Jensen as well as another Sierra employee helped contribute to it.

To further underscore it's nature as part of the official canon, the 'writer' of the Guidebook to the Land of the Green Isles is Derek, the writer of all the "Chronicles" in the Companion; note that the real-life writer of the book was none other than Jane Jensen herself; and also, in KQ6 itself, if you click the "Look" icon in Alhazred's chest, the narrator says he has a book called "The Guidebook to the Land of the Green Isles." So, that book, and Derek, do exist and have been mentioned in official King's Quest games.

The novels, however, are basically "EU". They were neither not pre-approved by Roberta, and I believe Ken said at one point that she'd read them and wasn't a big fan of them.

Offline Numbers

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Re: TSL vs the Originals vs the VGA
« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2014, 05:23:31 PM »
Kingdom of Sorrow has a chance of redeeming itself in Roberta's eyes if Infamous Quests finishes their game adaptation of it. King's Quest is first and foremost a game series, not a book series, so chances are KoS will fare better on the computer screen than on the page. That is, of course, provided the game actually gets released, and is good enough to recommend to Roberta, who will probably never bother to find it on her own.
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