Author Topic: A change of engine, project problems, sounds like...  (Read 15119 times)

Offline racx_00

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Re: A change of engine, project problems, sounds like...
« Reply #20 on: April 27, 2007, 12:07:18 AM »
Not necessarily. Just because we have lives does not mean the game will take until 2015. Also when you say fans getting their hopes up, you can't be referring to all fans because there are a few that seem to understand how the team is working through the project. Rosella hopes to see a Summer release, but she knows that the team won't necessarily have it done by then.
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Offline TribeHasSpoken

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Re: A change of engine, project problems, sounds like...
« Reply #21 on: April 27, 2007, 04:19:41 AM »
The problem with naming a specific release date now is that we couldn't possibly know in advance how accurate that date would be in terms of the first part of the game being ready for the public. The date is, and will always be "as soon as humanly possible".
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Offline koko_99_2001

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Re: A change of engine, project problems, sounds like...
« Reply #22 on: April 27, 2007, 04:56:18 AM »
So, Cat is it logical to think that Shadows will be released many years from now because the team is so busy with their own lives --- right?! 

Love how I was misquoted. Yes, the team has things going on in their lives, but I did not say that it would take nine years to be released. As you've been on this forum for so long, you know the team has stated over and over "it will be done when it's done" as well as them saying that they are working hard on the game. Yes, real life gets in the way, but it does NOT bring the game development to a stop.
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Offline Rosella

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Re: A change of engine, project problems, sounds like...
« Reply #23 on: April 27, 2007, 05:26:31 PM »
...I haven't been referred to as Rosella in FOREVER. :P

But here's a small piece of wisdom I recieved when I was very little.

"If there's anything I wish for you, it's that you could hope, but not expect."
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Offline riveraeg

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Re: A change of engine, project problems, sounds like...
« Reply #24 on: April 27, 2007, 05:51:52 PM »
I have an idea!!!!!

Instead of a release day a percentage bar of how the game goes. 

If something big is done then jumps 5%....everyone cheers, if someone computers crash and loss date then drop 15% everyone hits their head in utter dismay. 

Once it reach 100, the the company ispect it and we see how much percentage drop!!!

After that we hit our heads in the wall for each percentage that it drops. 

According to this theory, people will hit their heads enought to get brain damage and they would take forver to finish the game.

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Offline GunHoMac

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Re: A change of engine, project problems, sounds like...
« Reply #25 on: April 27, 2007, 06:38:56 PM »
Ahh the joys of status battles.  We've got the "they have lives" crowd, the "it'll be done when it's done" group, the "I told you so" campaign, the "it takes too much time to post status" entourage, the "I love you all, this is what I did today" minions, the "damn I didn't know this thing was still alive" clique, and of course the "wake me when it's ready" festival.

It's true...it'll be done when it's done.  With that in mind, most people will go do something productive (or not), and one day find a notice or catch wind of a new KQ game to download.

It's not true that making a status update takes too much time, and saying that developers have their own lives is not a valid excuse.  I get the sentiment, but it's really just code for "I don't want to make an update, so I won't."

The only real problem is this open-ended development period.  This isn't a paid project, and that's clear to see by the abuse of "done when it's done."  I don't fault the team for planning without deadlines, so people shouldn't be expecting any.

If waiting for the game is such a hassel or burden, go play another game...there are plenty out there.  Of course, a project without a definitive end is more of just a hobby than a real goal.  The game is what it is...no more, no less...so just wait or move on...don't lose sleep over a proposal.
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Offline koko_99_2001

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Re: A change of engine, project problems, sounds like...
« Reply #26 on: April 27, 2007, 08:30:52 PM »
Hear Hear!

Very well stated, GunHoMac :)
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Offline racx_00

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Re: A change of engine, project problems, sounds like...
« Reply #27 on: April 27, 2007, 11:29:14 PM »
According to this theory, people will hit their heads enought to get brain damage and they would take forver to finish the game.
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Offline rbadala

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Re: A change of engine, project problems, sounds like...
« Reply #28 on: April 29, 2007, 07:05:26 AM »
Ahh the joys of status battles.  We've got the "they have lives" crowd, the "it'll be done when it's done" group, the "I told you so" campaign, the "it takes too much time to post status" entourage, the "I love you all, this is what I did today" minions, the "damn I didn't know this thing was still alive" clique, and of course the "wake me when it's ready" festival.

It's true...it'll be done when it's done.  With that in mind, most people will go do something productive (or not), and one day find a notice or catch wind of a new KQ game to download.

It's not true that making a status update takes too much time, and saying that developers have their own lives is not a valid excuse.  I get the sentiment, but it's really just code for "I don't want to make an update, so I won't."

The only real problem is this open-ended development period.  This isn't a paid project, and that's clear to see by the abuse of "done when it's done."  I don't fault the team for planning without deadlines, so people shouldn't be expecting any.

If waiting for the game is such a hassel or burden, go play another game...there are plenty out there.  Of course, a project without a definitive end is more of just a hobby than a real goal.  The game is what it is...no more, no less...so just wait or move on...don't lose sleep over a proposal.

The fact that this is a “not-for-profit” game and there is no “time-to-market” changes things a bit.  It actually makes it possible to include fans on what is going on internally.
It is clear that is has not happened for many reasons.

There are no doubt some very talented people working on this project.  But sometimes, I forget how young many of the people are, that they are asked to, or volunteering for roles that they don’t have the proper experience for.  Such is the case for volunteer work.

The fact that the team is not working full time and under many roofs, makes communication difficult.  And there are clearly communications problems with-in the team.  The people demanding more updates are simply “beating a dead horse”.   Asking the web or PR director for updates is useless.  Normally it wouldn’t be, but here it is.  They don’t know anything.  Unless they are being fed information from someone in Cesar’s position (who may or may not be MIA), they don’t know what to tell you.  Unfortunately, they have to make stuff up, as is human nature.  Which only leads to a circular path.   

Some fans seem to be so afraid that if updates were given, nobody would be working on the game.  Don’t worry, there are people whose roles handle this sort of thing, they are just not functioning properly right now.  Updates would not delay the game.

I find the “it will get done, when it gets done” people amusing.  They always seem to leave the “if it gets done” off at the end.  (Eternal optimists) Of course this statement doesn’t communicate anything at all, and is only meant to be derogatory.   Which just fuels the fire. This of course does go both ways, and the nasty fans don’t help matters.

It is a complicated project that has many gaps folks. 

By-the-way, if a director wishes to post in the journal and they are really short on time… Perhaps it would be better to write less about their personal life, and more about the tasks on their plate, and how their work is being integrated with the work from other departments.  Cesar is the only person from my point of view who would possible knows where the project is at.  The art director could only tell us about the art department, if he wanted to.

Offline koko_99_2001

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Re: A change of engine, project problems, sounds like...
« Reply #29 on: April 29, 2007, 12:19:49 PM »
I find the “it will get done, when it gets done” people amusing.  They always seem to leave the “if it gets done” off at the end.  (Eternal optimists) Of course this statement doesn’t communicate anything at all, and is only meant to be derogatory.   

I'm sorry, but I have never been derogatory when I've said "it will get done when it gets done"...nor do I ever mean "IF" And yes, I may be an eternal optimist, but there is nothing wrong with that. I would rather be an optimist than a pessimist where I think there is a dark side to everything.
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Offline GunHoMac

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Re: A change of engine, project problems, sounds like...
« Reply #30 on: April 29, 2007, 12:51:28 PM »
"If it gets done" is still a valid question.  Whether from an optimistic or pessimistic standpoint, everyone at some point wonders the "when" or "if" of the end goal.

Probably more pertinent is not "if" or "when" it gets done, but "what" will it be "if" or "when" it's done.  The demo itself was a nice presentation, but from a playability and look-and-feel standpoint...it was pretty bad.

I admire the people who say "it'll get done when it's done" and they're here to stay until the bitter end.  I also sympathize with the "I told you so crowd."  The reason these two factions exist is because the development team and temporary PR department have made it that way.  People react to things the way you present them.  If you want people to panic, then yell "FIRE!"  If you want people to have faith in your product, then promote something worthy of it.  If you want people second-guessing the production, effort, and direction...spend time telling people about how you can't make updates rather than actually making them.

Everyone makes their own choice here...choose to support and wait, choose to ridicule and question...choose to ignore and wander...choose to promote or don't.  All sides have an angle here, and not one of them is unreasonable.  KQ9 is what you make it, and right now...it's just a forum.
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Offline rbadala

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Re: A change of engine, project problems, sounds like...
« Reply #31 on: April 29, 2007, 12:58:10 PM »
I find the “it will get done, when it gets done” people amusing.  They always seem to leave the “if it gets done” off at the end.  (Eternal optimists) Of course this statement doesn’t communicate anything at all, and is only meant to be derogatory.   

I'm sorry, but I have never been derogatory when I've said "it will get done when it gets done"...nor do I ever mean "IF" And yes, I may be an eternal optimist, but there is nothing wrong with that. I would rather be an optimist than a pessimist where I think there is a dark side to everything.

No need to be sorry.  I didn’t have you specifically in mind, as I have seen that phrase many times.  If you did use that phrase…

Maybe you don’t think (or meant to be) derogatory, but if you read carefully when that phrase was used, it was perceived that way, and understandably so.  After all, that phrase does not communicate anything useful.  It will be interpreted as another way of telling people to shut up.

There seems to be lots of misunderstandings all over the place on this board.  Like when you claimed to be misquoted Koko, when in fact, you were never quoted at all.

And no, there is nothing wrong with being an optimist or a pessimist for that matter.  I personally try to avoid these two extremes though.

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Re: A change of engine, project problems, sounds like...
« Reply #32 on: April 29, 2007, 01:24:37 PM »
I'm just gonna say one thing.

THe game will only be released when we are happy with it. We are not going to released a half-baked game. Just when we are happy with it we'll put it out. In the meanwhile, if you think that it will never be released, think again. We are still here and still working on making it as good as we can.


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Offline dew7

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Re: A change of engine, project problems, sounds like...
« Reply #33 on: April 29, 2007, 02:50:49 PM »
I find the “it will get done, when it gets done” people amusing.  They always seem to leave the “if it gets done” off at the end.  (Eternal optimists) Of course this statement doesn’t communicate anything at all, and is only meant to be derogatory.   

I'm sorry, but I have never been derogatory when I've said "it will get done when it gets done"...nor do I ever mean "IF" And yes, I may be an eternal optimist, but there is nothing wrong with that. I would rather be an optimist than a pessimist where I think there is a dark side to everything.

No need to be sorry.  I didn’t have you specifically in mind, as I have seen that phrase many times.  If you did use that phrase…

Maybe you don’t think (or meant to be) derogatory, but if you read carefully when that phrase was used, it was perceived that way, and understandably so.  After all, that phrase does not communicate anything useful.  It will be interpreted as another way of telling people to shut up.

There seems to be lots of misunderstandings all over the place on this board.  Like when you claimed to be misquoted Koko, when in fact, you were never quoted at all.

And no, there is nothing wrong with being an optimist or a pessimist for that matter.  I personally try to avoid these two extremes though.


Thank you for clearing that up that I did not quote Koko.  Well, it looks like the game release is still far in the future.  Thanks!
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Offline koko_99_2001

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Re: A change of engine, project problems, sounds like...
« Reply #34 on: April 29, 2007, 03:15:05 PM »

Thank you for clearing that up that I did not quote Koko.  Well, it looks like the game release is still far in the future.  Thanks!

Question: has anyone said that the game release is far in the future? And, what is considered far? Now, I want to clear up that I do not know the release date, so no hounding me people :P But I don't think anyone has said that the release is a LONG time from now.
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Re: A change of engine, project problems, sounds like...
« Reply #35 on: April 29, 2007, 03:43:57 PM »

The fact that the team is not working full time and under many roofs, makes communication difficult.  And there are clearly communications problems with-in the team.  The people demanding more updates are simply “beating a dead horse”.   Asking the web or PR director for updates is useless.  Normally it wouldn’t be, but here it is.  They don’t know anything.  Unless they are being fed information from someone in Cesar’s position (who may or may not be MIA), they don’t know what to tell you.  Unfortunately, they have to make stuff up, as is human nature.  Which only leads to a circular path. 

I'm rather amused by the assumptions of a complete random stranger explicitly saying what I know or I do not know as a PR Director. Or how it works within the team's communication, being that Cesar throughout the years has become a very close friend and we even talk on the phone on a weekly basis about pretty much everything. And this is only of the many friendships that have been built here, needless to say I bet there are others that communicate even much more frequent than we would know of. And regardless of our time differences, email would be the way to go to keep everyone connected, IF we can't meet for whatever needed reason that particular moment.

I need to clarify this, and this goes to everyone who might feel just like rbadala, I am the link from whatever your frustrated rants are to the people that is in the other end working day and night on this game. The fact that I won't write down exactly what you want to hear at the moment you want to hear it, doesn't mean it's useless or that I do not know what's going on.


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Offline riveraeg

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Re: A change of engine, project problems, sounds like...
« Reply #36 on: April 29, 2007, 06:18:22 PM »
My gradma use to say
     1) Don't eat to much chocolate
     2) Don't hit your head too hard on the table
     3) Don't look a gifthourse at the mouth

When I was a little kid, I never understood this because if someone gave me a hourse why? Would I look at it on the mouth is not that I am kissing it? 

Anyway, being "serious" for a secound we have to apreciate the team for all the work that they have place in the project.  The project I see it as a gift from this people to us and I don't think is fair to secound guess their decisions.  Do people want to be informed more, sure....everyone wants more information, but the fact is that sometimes people don't inform us because everything that is happening is normal.  Sometimes no news is good news.  I for example would not want a update saying "Screen 12093 of 15000 was updated because we change color 1235 with color 1987."  I mean sometimes updates don't happen because interesting thing don't happen. 

The percetage bar thing that I mentioned was a joke, something so people can laught and be braindead for a moment.  Also I think to myself how can people give updates.  The game is going to take a medium time to finish.  What is medium time, or long time what is considered a long time.  Sometimes words are very subjective and it might be hard to tell people updates whitout being miscouted.  Trust me talk to the press and you see how your words change to something out of context.

In short, the PR deparment does a good job here, I would apreciate if I can have more wallapers to choose from. but that is not important.  For me giving an "update" is not as important as macking sure that the team spends time with their family.  Besides if people want the game "so" bad.  They can try and make their own or try to buy King Quest from the company and hire 5000000000 programers to make it quick.  I know I can't afford that....yet....just kidding. 

In short we should apreciate that we have a forum, wallpapers, and stuff like that to enjoy in the meantime.  Would I want like a pin ball game of KQ IX, yes but it not important.  Sometimes the journey and the process is more important than the ending. 

Offline dew7

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Re: A change of engine, project problems, sounds like...
« Reply #37 on: April 29, 2007, 10:14:55 PM »
The thing is that this project has been going on for a long time and sure the team has run into hitches regarding the IP of King's Quest but the reason I think the game will still take many years is because it needs to be just right in the team's eyes and that this project is a huge undertaking.  Furthermore, TSL team is writing a game from scratch and not just updating a game like infamous adventures or AGD.  However, I give AGD a lot of credit because their King's Quest II+ feels like a new game in many ways.  Finally, the game must meet Vivendi's approval before being available for the fans.  So Cat and all others these are my supporting reasons for why I do not expect even Shadows in the near future (the next year or two).
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Offline GunHoMac

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Re: A change of engine, project problems, sounds like...
« Reply #38 on: April 30, 2007, 09:53:57 AM »
The game will take a long time to finish, and long means several years from now.  That can't be disputed based on the performance up to this point.  If you want to know how things are going, look at how things have gone so far...the answer...long.

Also, reporting/updating/hinting/etc... have nothing to do with making sure people spend time with their families.  That's like telling people to stop doing homework or business proposals because they have a family.  If you want to get something done, you make a choice on how much effort you're willing to put into it.

With Cesar's reply, it's apparent they want (or at least he wants) to put a lot of effort into making this game look and play great.  When you strive for perfection, it's going to take a long time.  However, just saying you want something done perfectly doesn't mean anything is getting done.

Personally, I don't mind if it takes 12 days or 12 years...the only problem is the 12 years finish line is a possibility, and no one would ever know....except that they waited 12 more years until it was done.
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Offline J-Rod

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Re: A change of engine, project problems, sounds like...
« Reply #39 on: May 11, 2007, 05:40:24 PM »
I think 12 is quite a stretch. I don't see how it could even be half that "based on the performance up to this point".

I don't consider myself an optimist, but I feel pretty confident there will be a game. There is a legitimate "if" to everything, but that doesn't give it credibility or make it likely to happen.

They have proved they can do it with the demo, and to me, all the work we've seen including this site shows some commitment to doing it. Also, they may not be able to or just not want to give you the current status of everything, but they are almost always here and willing to listen and respond to anybody which does add some accountability. I think that should be enough even for a skeptic to be convinced it probably will happen.