One suggestion.

[Bludshot]

It would be really encouraging if we had frequent journal entries, maybe once a week. They don't have to be as long as they are now, maybe just a paragraph or two, updating on us on the things, big or little, you guys are working on.

You guys are Saints for making this game, best of luck.

[kq fan007]

Ahh bludshot I couldn't agree with you more, but I have been checking the site for a year or so now, and have suggested excactly what you have but it has almost always fallen on deaf ears.

[racx_00]

It doesn't fall on deaf ears, and as moderators all we can do is pass on your messages to those higher up.

[koko_99_2001]

Which, I think Jason can verify, every week or so, I send an email out to those on the team with a link to the newest thread that they should check out.

[racx_00]

Yep, we do our best. Also as part of our job we realise we must pass on criticism which we also do. So yeah, your responses never fall on deaf ears. Your comments are appreciated.

[awesomeasapossum]

PLUS, would you rather have the game sooner? Or the game not as soon but more info on how it's coming along?

[GunHoMac]

PLUS, would you rather have the game sooner? Or the game not as soon but more info on how it's coming along?

This seems to be a common counterpoint theme, and it really doesn't make any sense.  I'm sure you were able to type and submit your post without having to call in sick to work, be late for class, or whatever it is you had to do.

We're talking about a paragraph of information.  There are people who's sole job on this site is to report things.  Saying the game will come out sooner if they don't make public progress updates is like saying my birthday will come faster if I stop talking to people during the day.  I'm sure they're merrily processing away on the game, as we would expect, but the lack of news is simply apathy and laziness.

[kq fan007]

Amen GunHoMac,
I never really thought about it that way, but you are right.

[NemelChelovek]

That's the best way I've heard it put, GunHoMac. I agree completely.

[awesomeasapossum]

I really have a problem with people that register for this forum just to whine and complain about how long this game is taking. I couldn't agree more with whoever it was that suggested folks like you sign up for the newsletter and forget about this site until you get an email. If you didn't already know, some of the team members have been gathering to work hard on the game. I got this PM from Michael Fortunato:

But right now Cesar, Rich, Yonkey and I are all together (physically - in the same place) working hard on the game.  We're pushing hard to get this baby done!

I'm hoping Yonkey will announce some new stuff soon.

- Michael

Anyway that gives you a better idea of whats going on now. I really wish people would stop being so pessimistic. This game will be amazing when it's  out. You just need to wait. I totally understand that some people have problems waiting--myself included--but you need to understand that these people have lives. They have families, friends, OTHER jobs, school, etc. I would like to see you find time to balance making a game of this caliber in your schedules and coordinate it with people around the world.

To the team, you guys are doing a great job! Keep up the good work!

[TribeHasSpoken]

One thing you guys might not know is that, when it comes to PR & Web, we actually keep pretty tight separations between our department and production. Aside from Say, Neil and myself, I'm pretty sure nobody else in the department has access to anything. This is to prevent leaks, deliberate or accidental, from occurring. Even then, my own picture of what's going on is pretty fragmented. If I want the full picture of exactly how everything is fitting together at any given time, that pretty much means I need to ask Cesar or Rich and wait until they have time to get back to me. Perhaps you may think that's a flawed system, but we have our reasons. Nevertheless, getting the kind of updates to you that you ask for is more complicated than it sounds.

[GunHoMac]

I really have a problem with people that register for this forum just to whine and complain about how long this game is taking.

I do too...unfortunately I've been a member longer than you, so that complaint doesn't really mean much.  The problem isn't that people want "1090395 polygons shaded for frame 240", but aren't getting it.  The problem is people want to have some freaking idea of what's going on.  A project has to have deadlines, and when you miss those deadlines, magazines, websites, and news reports are there to bash the developers for slipping schedule.  The problem with this project is that there are internal deadlines, but no publically-voiced goals/objectives/deadlines.

For all we know, the game could've been on track for release in 2 months, but a server crashed and data was lost.  A massive CGI sequence could've been completed, but then scrapped due to changes Cesar thought would make the game more cohesive.

I know you can't go asking Square Enix what development progress has been made on Final Fantasy XIII in the past week...that's an interal progress report for the software team.  What you can do is find out their projected release date, and prepare for that as a countdown goal.  With TSL, I remember at one point a giant update was made saying "COMING THIS WINTER...PART 1...SHADOWS".  That was two years ago...when we say "updates"...we (or at least I) mean specifically, "When are you aiming to release the game?"

Is that so much to ask for?  Apparently, yes.

[koko_99_2001]

The problem with that, though, is if the team says "we aim to release the game at this time (insert)" and then something like a server crash or several things scrapped happens, then the release date is going to have to be moved.

I think I would rather know that the game's being worked on and not know the release date, than to have the release date changed repeatedly.

Of course, that's only my two cents.

[Yonkey]

Regarding Square Enix and any other company people decide to mention, you're forgetting something important.  Companies have a budget based on their release date.  They plan based on the fact that if they take longer, they'll get fired and the company will eventually go bankrupt.  If they can't meet their release date, they'd have to shell out money from their pockets to pay people to work overtime.  Also their market value would drop because steakholders expect a game promised for Q4 2007 to come out at that time, not Q4 2008 or 2009.  Not to mention, their competitors would be able to capitalize in the mean time, simply because they were able to deliver on-time. 

[Petra Rocks]

You do mean stockholders, not steakholders, right? That's what comes of talking about things like this on an empty stomach.   

[Yonkey]

Whoops, actually I meant stakeholders, not steakholders.

[GunHoMac]

Oh, I've taken the whole budget thing into account.  The TSL team is also working on a budget, and it's the patience and passion of its fans.  Of course something will happen to cause you to slip schedule, but simply being afraid of bad news is not good enough.

It's far better to set a completion date, and miss it, then it is to just pound away on the code letting everyone guess how long they'll have to wait.  People work in timeframes; otherwise, you'd go to work not knowing when you get to go home.  You'd go to class, sitting there waiting for the professor to stop talking, but having no idea when.

I admire and understand all the hard work that goes into developing a video game, let alone an Indie game with no financial profit.  However, without a release date (even if it is going to be missed) it just exhibits a lack of confidence in the drive of the team (warranted or not).  You have to let people know what they're waiting for and for how long, otherwise no one's going to care by the time you finish.

It's like sending out fliers to everyone about a BBQ you're going to have at your house, but you don't say what time or even what day.  People start showing up day after day asking you when it's going to happen, but you have no answer...here...have this piece of gum in the meantime.  After awhile it's pretty clear that all you have prepared is packages of gum to handout with no end in sight to when the BBQ is going to be held.  Eventually, people will stop showing up, stop asking, and by the time you have the BBQ...some will come and eat then disappear...no one will care.

[kq fan007]

Your excactly right GunHoMac , what I really want to know is why can't other people except the fact that TSL could do better in certain areas? but instead they spend their time creating lame excuses for why certain things "like updates" aren't coming around as much as they used to.

[awesomeasapossum]

Your excactly right GunHoMac , what I really want to know is why can't other people except the fact that TSL could do better in certain areas? but instead they spend their time creating lame excuses for why certain things "like updates" aren't coming around as much as they used to.

What I would really like to know is what areas they could do better in?

[Yonkey]

It's like sending out fliers to everyone about a BBQ you're going to have at your house, but you don't say what time or even what day.  People start showing up day after day asking you when it's going to happen, but you have no answer...here...have this piece of gum in the meantime.  After awhile it's pretty clear that all you have prepared is packages of gum to handout with no end in sight to when the BBQ is going to be held.  Eventually, people will stop showing up, stop asking, and by the time you have the BBQ...some will come and eat then disappear...no one will care.

Well if we're gonna use analogies... The way I see it is more like the BBQ happened last summer with the release of the public demo, since no one outside the team knew what we were planning until the day itself.  The completion of the game is more akin to the solution to world hunger.  Can we predict when that day will come?  Can you?  Of course not, or at least not at the present time.  Of course people are asking day after day about when it will come, but what we're trying to point out is that constant asking doesn't solve the issue. 

You could lobby government officials, organize protests, run fundraisers and do whatever you like, but the fact is that unless you have billions and billions of dollars at your disposal to feed every starving individual, you cannot say with 100% certainty when that day will come.  You could even have a plan with all the steps necessary to be taken by each country, nation and individual, but you have no way of controlling the execution of such plan because there's no possible way for you to satisfy everyone's interests.

When the day comes that the world hunger problem is solved, do you seriously think that people won't care?  I would actually think the complete opposite, and I know for sure that those starving for years and years will be more than simply satisfied at the result.

Now obviously, finishing this game isn't as difficult as solving world hunger, but the similarities are uncanny.  The main difference is that there will be a day when we will know with 100% certainty when the game will be released.  And when we know that date, so will all of you.