Web Team now hiring!

[Jeysie]

Hee, nuts. I think I've got a good working knowledge of HTML and CSS. But I know diddley about database and flash stuff yet, and my javascript skills right now are limited to looking up and cobbling together scripts. Oh, well, I have too much stuff on my plate right now to take on something else, anyway. Now, if it was a couple months from now...

Peace & Luv, Liz

[Oldbushie]

Darn, I'm already committed to two parts of the team... Ah well, good luck finding a suitable person!

[Say]

yeah thats what we need
good luck

[mfortunato]

YEAH!!! I can be on the web team!!!! WOO HOO!!!!!

Wait a minute!  I'm already on the kq9 team.  I'm on the art team and the sound team.  And I don't know a darn thing about web design (except how to make a web page look like poop - Mr. Hanky the Christmas poo web page!).

I need more sleep  

[Say]

omg you meanie!!


dont mock me! anyhow, I bet everyone its like omg webteam wtf annoying blah... but you just freaking sit back and eventually YOU ALL WILL WANNA BE ON WEBTEAM OMFG HOW COOLZ AND STUFF

thats all Im gonna say.... HAH

[Jeysie]

dont mock me! anyhow, I bet everyone its like omg webteam wtf annoying blah... but you just freaking sit back and eventually YOU ALL WILL WANNA BE ON WEBTEAM OMFG HOW COOLZ AND STUFF

Hee. I'm not gonna mock you... I'm busy containing this urge to try my hand at redoing the KQ9 design and layout in all CSS. I have no free time, I already have a bunch of websites to redesign, I must not be tempted by this!!

Peace & Luv, Liz

[Say]

Its not about redesign actually.

[Jeysie]

Hee, I know, but I'd still be tempted.

Peace & Luv, Liz

[Say]

I think I should have added something like a caution note or something on the job thing (thinking about it )

NOTE: apply also if you dont mind having an insanely goofy boss lol

[KatieHal]

omg you meanie!!


dont mock me! anyhow, I bet everyone its like omg webteam wtf annoying blah... but you just freaking sit back and eventually YOU ALL WILL WANNA BE ON WEBTEAM OMFG HOW COOLZ AND STUFF

thats all Im gonna say.... HAH

I'm confused...when did someone mock you???

[DragonSlyr]

mfortunato did

[Say]

hahaha, I was kidding actually. hes supah mike hes everywhere but that joke was meanie cuz way back then I didnt have anyone (I mean as hired anyone)

lol would be interesting to hire mike I would love to see his pooo skills  

[TakariFreak]

Can I ask WHY all these web postions require flash?  I meet pretty much all the other qualifications, except I don't know flash..I don't really like it...flash movies tend to piss me off.  I've made one once before (like my ladybugs re-creation form Multimedia class a few years back), and it was a pain in the ass to do.  I don't like seeing them online either..sites that have them take too long to laod for me (even though I have broadband)..and there are other reasons I just can't explain...

Anyway..sorry about the rant...

[Jeysie]

I hate to say it, but I agree with Takari. IMHO, the only things I've seen in Flash that are actually suited for the format are 1. games, 2. short music videos/cartoons/movies (like Shockwave, Newgrounds, or AtomFilms sorta stuff), 3. trailers, 4. really avant-garde, experimental, "the flashiness is the whole point" entertainment stuff. Everything else is better done with HTML+CSS, some well-crafted javascript, or an animated GIF. (Or some intelligent combination thereof.)

Of course, I take a rather minimalistic view of Java and javascript too, although at least those have some possible practical applications. Flash tends to just be... well, for flash.

Of course, the KQ9 team is going be posting a Flash trailer at some point, so they're vindicated on that aspect.

As long as the KQ9 site never implements a flash, java, or all-javascript based nav menu, I won't have to hurt anybody.

Peace & Luv, Liz

[Say]

The knowledge the web programmer must have about flash its basics, and all our staff does (our current staff), and the web media position its for flash experts with basics of html (in depth its mandatory, there is flash coders thats sort of what we aim for with that).

Why its mandatory? because its important that at least you are somewhat related to it or at least willing to learn with us, I've been a professional designer for over 2 years, and yes like it or not flash its one of the most interactive highly demanded web tool most known on the market, everyone is more familiar with flash than with other 2d animation programs, also it comes off handy since its quite a friendly program I must admit.

By my own experience the best sites ever either are entirely done in flash or have flash content whatsoever, in fact you can even create database with flash so even knowdays web programmers should at least be familiar with it, what you choose in the end its a matter of style we are talking about career competition here, every single webdesigner I've known as well as webprogrammer at least used flash once, so therefore I do ask for that.

And sowwy if you dont like flash, but the site its coming all over with more and more, internet its all about info, all about interactivity

[Jeysie]

By my own experience the best sites ever either are entirely done in flash or have flash content whatsoever, in fact you can even create database with flash so even knowdays web programmers should at least be familiar with it, what you choose in the end its a matter of style we are talking about career competition here, every single webdesigner I've known as well as webprogrammer at least used flash once, so therefore I do ask for that.

And sowwy if you dont like flash, but the site its coming all over with more and more, internet its all about info, all about interactivity

Yeah, the internet is about info... and about fast, accessible, and easy-to-navigate access to said info, of which Flash is none of those things.

As I said, I have no problems with stuff where it either can't be done in any way other than Flash, or can't be done as well in another way. But, maybe I've just been surfing the wrong sites, but I've never seen a site that needed to be *completely* in Flash. I have seen sites where certain bits of it needed to be in Flash, but there's no reason why the rest of the site couldn't have been in HTML and CSS, which would be faster to download, and more accessible, not to mention easier to maintain and consuming less bandwidth.

I'm still on dial-up, which means that anything that takes a long time to load is usually going to turn me off, unless I'm in the mood for it. But even if I wasn't, there's at least four things that bug me about non-game/movie Flash:

1. Fonts. My eyesight sucks, so I keep my fonts cranked a bit high. On a normal web page, if the webmaster is enough of a yahoo to make their text too tiny, I can just override their settings with my browser's settings or a CSS file. But with Flash, you're stuck. (Yeah, you can zoom some files, but it zooms *everything*, not just the text, so it ends up looking kinda dumb.)

2. Colors. I need background/text contrast that I can actually read without getting a migraine. Again, with regular HTML, I can override their colors. Again, with Flash I'm stuck.

3. Window size. Namely, those people who feel a need to stick their text in these itty bitty little frames/table cells/iframes/boxes/whatever. With an HTML file, I can just turn off the CSS/frames/tables/iframes so I can actually read the stuff... or, worse comes to worse, I can just Save As Text File or something. With Flash... need I say it?

4. No right-click. This is prolly my biggest peeve. I'm a really fast reader, so I make heavy use of the "Open in Background Page" option. That way I can open lots of pages at once, and just plow my way straight through reading everything. With Flash, Java, or badly-made-javascript links and menus, I'm stuck having to go through stuff one page at a time. Yuck.

I remember this one site... Liquid-something, I forget the exact name. Nice-looking site, but the fact that it was all in Flash, even the stuff like articles and quizzes that didn't need to be, just made it too slow and awkward to get around, so I eventually just gave up.

And personally, I'm poor and lazy. (X)HTML and CSS are easy and free to learn, easy and free to author, and you can do craploads of cool stuff with them. Heck, I can pull off at least bit of (IMHO) neat stuff, and I'm sucky at creativity... some who's a designer could pull off some really cool crap. (And they have, in fact. A List Apart, CSS Zen Garden, and CSS Edge are all cool places to start. Visit, read, drool. Especially if you use an almost-completely standards-compliant browser like Mozilla or Opera. )

As for interactivity... if I want to interact with people on the web, I usually want to be talking and discussing with them in some way. You don't need Flash for that. (And I already said I like Flash games, so... )

So, in short, yeah, Flash is a great tool... for stuff that either can only be accomplished in Flash, or can only be done with extreme difficulty with other methods. But IMHO, 90% of the web does not fit those categories, and certainly not an entire website. Geez, give us people with lousy eyesight and dial-up a break... or at least buy us cable and new eyes.

(Please note, I didn't intend this as a rant against the KQ9 web crew... just as a rant against excessive usage of Flash in the world-at-large. I'm not gonna fault you guys for a few little random quirky Flash doo-dads, even if I do think they're kind of frivolous. I eagerly await the day when you can finally concoct that trailer, though!)

Peace & Luv, Liz

[Say]

Hahaha, flash can do that absolutly all you named and so much more! in fact, I do take for everything you named you dont know flash at all, flash does have special features for compressions image and process, I do have to admit flash its not just for interactivity but as I said you can do ABSOLUTLY EVERYTHING on it, and believe it or not, flash is more friendly than ppl think. There are not many trained ppl out there and everyone can do a website nowdays, how dare you to tell me flash is heavy? its is a vectorial program! hahaha, all the other things that an html has like images and such its exactly the same when flash does, you CAN have the jpg saved for web so what is it? 4 k? haha its exactly the same 4k in flash, in fact, when you open an html its does load the info, on a flash site you can have preloaders too the only difference its how it both load one load as it goes and the other has a main preloader, and even on flash you CAN have separated preloaders, so in any case flash is easy not just to work with but to navigate with, it has nothing to do with the program features what a designer can or cannot do with it. And if you do know how to work with that program you do also know how to create folders and all the library management so why would it be hard? haha you just go get on library the element to update double click on it and your done!.

I dont find it frivolous, I find it extremely appealing, so its a subjective field what tool you use to work with. I do have to claim I got nothing againts html, asp or css or any of such related, I think I did mention what I believe on my previous post when I said every -web programmer- (Im not saying designer) should know at least basics on flash, and believe me, the coding in flash its exactly the same weight than any normal code, just text. So what would be the problem anyways? the more you know, the more it goes into your resume, plus you get to be more competitive.

[Jeysie]

Hahaha, flash can do that absolutly all you named and so much more! in fact, I do take for everything you named you dont know flash at all, flash does have special features for compressions image and process, I do have to admit flash its not just for interactivity but as I said you can do ABSOLUTLY EVERYTHING on it, and believe it or not, flash is more friendly than ppl think.

Well... I guess maybe it could be possible to create an all -Flash website that would let me use whatever font size, colors, copying and saving text, and tabbed browsing methods I deem necessary for my optimum browsing experience, but I've yet to come across anyone who's done that. It's all about user flexibility.

There are not many trained ppl out there and everyone can do a website nowdays...

Which is the point. The WWW was designed so that everybody could use it to share their thoughts and ideas. And more importantly, so everyone could see those thoughts and ideas, in whatever client they have access to.

how dare you to tell me flash is heavy? its is a vectorial program! hahaha, all the other things that an html has like images and such its exactly the same when flash does, you CAN have the jpg saved for web so what is it? 4 k? haha its exactly the same 4k in flash...

Perhaps, but the jpg can be seen by every graphical browser out there, with no separate plug-in to download or install, and without taking up extra CPU and RAM to process.

Plus, I can create my site navmenu with cool button effects in, like, 4K of GIFs and 4K of CSS, tops. And it's still accessible even if a person has images turned off, different font sizes, or even a text browser. Doing it in Flash would be over-kill.

Finally, it's a matter of... why? GIFs and JPGs were designed for line art and photographic images. And PNG kicks all amounts of butt. Why waste time with Flash on purely presentational stuff? Save it for the really eye-popping stuff that you can't do any other way.

in fact, when you open an html its does load the info, on a flash site you can have preloaders too the only difference its how it both load one load as it goes and the other has a main preloader, and even on flash you CAN have separated preloaders, so in any case flash is easy not just to work with but to navigate with, it has nothing to do with the program features what a designer can or cannot do with it. And if you do know how to work with that program you do also know how to create folders and all the library management so why would it be hard? haha you just go get on library the element to update double click on it and your done!.

Again, why? Why take the time to buy a $200 program, and take all the time to learn to use it, and deal with all those preloaders and redoing the file whenever you want to add something, if you're just going to use it for plain presentation stuff? When you can just go over to Notepad, tweak a few lines of (X)HTML and CSS, and be done with it?

Not to mention, having a site all in Flash is nasty for getting your site indexed in Google properly.

I guess it's just that I'm efficient and lazy... I like to do stuff the easiest and simplest way I can while still getting the effects I want.

And I assume by "easy to navigate with" you mean in terms of making it... I've always found Flash menus to be slow and a pain in the butt to navigate as a user. Gimme my right-clicky-menu!

I dont find it frivolous, I find it extremely appealing, so its a subjective field what tool you use to work with. I do have to claim I got nothing againts html, asp or css or any of such related, I think I did mention what I believe on my previous post when I said every -web programmer- (Im not saying designer) should know at least basics on flash, and believe me, the coding in flash its exactly the same weight than any normal code, just text. So what would be the problem anyways? the more you know, the more it goes into your resume, plus you get to be more competitive.

I don't find Flash inherently frivolous, I just find doing things with Flash that could be done more simply with HTML, CSS, and javascript to be a waste of the designer's and user's time. Keep the main navigation and layout pretty but simple to implement and download, and save the Flash time for the really cool stuff.

HTML is designed for content. ASP/CGI/PHP/etc. are designed for active served stuff/database stuff. Javascript is designed for manipulating HTML. CSS is designed for adding presentation to HTML. Flash is designed for creating involved lightweight, visual, interactive applications that can't be done any of the other ways. It's about using the right tool for the job.

Personally, I'd be pleased as punch if you ever learned CSS, Say... with your art skills, I bet you could create a CSS Zen Garden design that would knock various people's foot garments off.

Peace & Luv, Liz

[Jeysie]

Hee, Yonkey, I think you managed to sum up some of my thoughts better than I could.

The whole "It is up to the designer to say "this is how I want my movie to look and work" and not the user." is my main thought about Flash. If the whole point of a Flash thingy *is* the Flash, meaning, you're supposed to just see and tinker around with what the maker wanted you to tinker around with, that's fine, and I enjoy that sort of thing when I'm in the mood for it. But if a site has actual straight-up *content* anywhere on it, in the form of text or static imagery, I want to be able to look at that content in the way that works best for me. That's my division on the matter.

Peace & Luv, Liz

[Jeysie]

Well, cool. Now, if they give me my right-click and "Open in new page" and my copy-n-paste functions back, I won't complain as much. Maybe in the next Flash version.

(OK, so I'm a bit of a Web anarchist at heart. So sue me. )

I still think CSS kicks various amounts of butt, though. I like being able to do cool things with just a little bit of plain text.

Peace & Luv, Liz