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The Silver Lining - Cease and Desist

Started by Yonkey, February 27, 2010, 08:59:56 PM

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mateo360

In all honesty, I don't think Activision would have realized they had the IP for king's quest if you guys never started making this. Don't get me wrong, I am glad you were making this but they probably would have looked at the IP and said "oh look, another series" and never looked at it again.
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Sara

What if POS entered Activision's Indie Game Competition with TSL as their entry?  It certainly would get the game attention.

http://www.activision.com/ROOT/media/sweepstakes/indie_game/Indie%20Game%20Competition%20FINAL%20-%20WEB.pdf

Haids1987

Quote from: Yonkey on March 01, 2010, 10:33:56 AMWhile there's no guarantee will change Activision's mind or not, they did help in the past.
And we will try until it works.  The good guys always win.  :)
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namekim

Guys, I'm very sorry that all your hard work and efforts were wasted(although you gained valueable experience through of it all, and that's always important).

But...

you only have yourselves to blame. You willfully entered a world of hell from the beginning. You took someone else's game and just decided that you would make a sequel to it. Being a fan of the game does not mean you get to decide the fate of the series. That's just the way it is. You knew beforehand that you were in the mercy of any lawyer working for the IP holder, and that he could shut the whole thing down with a simple C&D.

I wish Activision would let this one slip. But they didn't. Why? I have no idea. It could be because they want to continue the series. It could be because they want to re-package and sell some of the older games, and want to avoid any clutter. It could simply be because , even if they're not interested in the speficic IP at hand, they want people to know that they do take care of their IP. Otherwise they might have to deal with fan games spawning left and right for IPs they do care about. Whatever the reason, they had every right to do it, there's nothing you can do about it, and in the end, sadly all your work wasted.

So next time, gather your undoubtably talented team, and make an original game. Make YOUR game. It feels better. Good luck.

dark-daventry

Quote from: namekim on March 01, 2010, 02:26:56 PM
Guys, I'm very sorry that all your hard work and efforts were wasted(although you gained valueable experience through of it all, and that's always important).

But...

you only have yourselves to blame. You willfully entered a world of hell from the beginning. You took someone else's game and just decided that you would make a sequel to it. Being a fan of the game does not mean you get to decide the fate of the series. That's just the way it is. You knew beforehand that you were in the mercy of any lawyer working for the IP holder, and that he could shut the whole thing down with a simple C&D.

I wish Activision would let this one slip. But they didn't. Why? I have no idea. It could be because they want to continue the series. It could be because they want to re-package and sell some of the older games, and want to avoid any clutter. It could simply be because , even if they're not interested in the speficic IP at hand, they want people to know that they do take care of their IP. Otherwise they might have to deal with fan games spawning left and right for IPs they do care about. Whatever the reason, they had every right to do it, there's nothing you can do about it, and in the end, sadly all your work wasted.

So next time, gather your undoubtably talented team, and make an original game. Make YOUR game. It feels better. Good luck.

Just a little clarity: The team had previously been granted a fan license to continue by the previous IP holders, Vivendi Universal Games. However, Vivendi has since merged with Activision, giving them control over most of Sierra's IP. The team had the green light from the IP holders to continue, and was very close to completion when Activision decided to make this call.
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namekim

Quote from: dark-daventry on March 01, 2010, 02:34:43 PM
Quote from: namekim on March 01, 2010, 02:26:56 PM
Guys, I'm very sorry that all your hard work and efforts were wasted(although you gained valueable experience through of it all, and that's always important).

But...

you only have yourselves to blame. You willfully entered a world of hell from the beginning. You took someone else's game and just decided that you would make a sequel to it. Being a fan of the game does not mean you get to decide the fate of the series. That's just the way it is. You knew beforehand that you were in the mercy of any lawyer working for the IP holder, and that he could shut the whole thing down with a simple C&D.

I wish Activision would let this one slip. But they didn't. Why? I have no idea. It could be because they want to continue the series. It could be because they want to re-package and sell some of the older games, and want to avoid any clutter. It could simply be because , even if they're not interested in the speficic IP at hand, they want people to know that they do take care of their IP. Otherwise they might have to deal with fan games spawning left and right for IPs they do care about. Whatever the reason, they had every right to do it, there's nothing you can do about it, and in the end, sadly all your work wasted.

So next time, gather your undoubtably talented team, and make an original game. Make YOUR game. It feels better. Good luck.

Just a little clarity: The team had previously been granted a fan license to continue by the previous IP holders, Vivendi Universal Games. However, Vivendi has since merged with Activision, giving them control over most of Sierra's IP. The team had the green light from the IP holders to continue, and was very close to completion when Activision decided to make this call.

From what I know, the team initially didn't have any kind of permission. After 4 years and about the time the game got some exposure, Vivendi send a C&D. Fans send many protests to Vivendi, which coupled with the quality of the demo, resulted in Vivendi granting a fan license, with the term that the deal *can be cancelled by both parties*. After that, Activision took over, and as the contract permitted, they broke the deal.

So, to reiterate, the team started with no permission, got halted once, again gained a fragile fan license, and got halted once more. This is what I'm saying. For no reason at all, you placed yourselves in this legal mess. As I said, Activision may not care about Knight's Quest IP at all, but this could be just a pre-emptive strike so they don't get fan games and petitions and hordes of protest emails all over the place. IMO, the team placed itself in a minefield from the start. And all you needed to do to avoid this mess was take your talent and your skills, draw inspiration from King's Quest since you admire it, and make a wonderful original adventure game, which are so rare today. So sad.

Josh

I followed this a little off and on over the course of the years.  I find the assumptions of what POS could or should have done, and what they could or should do a little amusing.  

This is likely not the last word on the whole situation, and even if it is, I wish the team the best of luck in future endeavors, and may you never be haunted by IP disputes in any future development.  :)  Obviously a good deal of care and passion went into this project, and I hope this doesn't discourage you and will serve only as another lesson on your road to success.

As to suggestions that they should "just leak it in an un-traceable manner", that's quite easy to say when its not your...  lets use 'feet in the fire' (although there are more appropriate euphemisms).  When it's not your door they're knocking on with C&D letter, and when it's not your name they associate with the game in question.  For most people, its simple.  AV may not be on the most stable legal grounds, but neither is POS, and it may cost thousands or tens of thousands of dollars to prove either side's case, and who has deeper pockets?  Should AV decide a simple leak from an unknown source is enough to pursue litigation, it takes substantial initial investment to prove them wrong, even if you win in the end.  Is it worth the risk on something you were never intending to pull a profit on?  Just so you can say "haha take that activision!!!".   Pass judgment all you want, but it's not your place to say what kinds of risks these developers should take with what could amount to their livelihoods and their families well being.  Litigation of any sort, weather you're in the right or not, takes a huge toll financially, emotionally, and psychologically.  

For everyone's sake, I hope they're using this as a show of good faith that POS does not intend to stomp on the toes of the legal IP holders, but would rather work out an agreement that is satisfactory to everyone.  They want people to see their hard work.  Im not saying AV is in any way at all right in their C&D notice.  Instead, I think this was the best course of action for POS, abiding by the C&D after failed negotiations.  Throwing a tantrum doesn't help anyone, an I hope some day they can work out a deal to let us see everything they've been working so hard on.  Alternatively, if they can transform it into an IP all their own, I would also love to see what they made.  Supporting them is all you can do, no use pointing fingers or telling them how they should handle the situation, like they'd take legal advice from a bunch of forum posters anyway.  ;)


Tage7

Quote from: namekim on March 01, 2010, 02:26:56 PMyou only have yourselves to blame. [...] next time, gather your undoubtably talented team, and make an original game. Make YOUR game. It feels better. Good luck.

No ill will intended, but I believe you seem to lack the knowledge or comprehension of what drives people to develop fan-created material.

In my opinion, it's easier to create your own original game than it is to weave an immersive new story into an already-existing story, to fill plot holes that were never addressed in a cohesive way that actually works, to reimagine what 2D characters would look like in 3D, and to explore the unknown future of a series that was abandoned.

Were they crazy to undertake such an immense task? Perhaps so. Were they too naive to think they would be able to complete it unscathed? I highly doubt it.

To say that they have themselves to blame and that making an original game "feels better" makes your whole post appear to be a means of self satisfaction. Whether this is actual or not, whether you meant it or not, I think that it's a repetitive statement that's been beaten to death over several years.

alethiometer

I just signed the petition, and I just had to say: I find it hilarious the captchcas (or at least the one on the petition) have ads in them now. Figures i guess :P
/tangent

Yeah, I suppose you guys are right about the leak, that I shouldn't demand this hardworking group of people risk litigation on top of everything they've done for this game and for us. To be entirely honest, if I could, I'd leak it myself, as I pirate a lot of my games anyway and am thus rather confident about the anonymity of the process. But the best way to get through this would be to convince Activision that they should let you release it, however that may be possible. I'm here with you guys for the fight.

Bubba

Is there any possibility you could change the names and any artwork specific to kings quest, then release it as it's own game, not a Kings Quest extension?

Delling

Quote from: Sara on March 01, 2010, 02:17:22 PM
What if POS entered Activision's Indie Game Competition with TSL as their entry?  It certainly would get the game attention.

http://www.activision.com/ROOT/media/sweepstakes/indie_game/Indie%20Game%20Competition%20FINAL%20-%20WEB.pdf
I LOVE this suggestion! XD

"We know you shut us down...but to show there's no hard feelings: here take a peak!"

Honestly, does anything in the C&D preclude this? I mean... they will likely never win as it is a fan game with Activision IP content... that alone probably precludes their entry (though as a competition rule, not necessarily a C&D rule)... still I <3 irony :P
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hamer1

how much has been done to the game since the demo????  i hear almost done a lot, but what really is there?....or is the demo it?

tessspoon

Quote from: hamer1 on March 01, 2010, 04:27:55 PM
how much has been done to the game since the demo????  i hear almost done a lot, but what really is there?....or is the demo it?
It was stated in an article that one of the gaming websites put up that the first episode of five was done and sent to Activision for review, hopefully to be released this Spring.

hamer1


koko_99_2001

Quote from: oberonqa on March 01, 2010, 10:02:58 AM
It's all good dark-daventry.  We're doing what we can.  I've been submitting the copy and paste letter I wrote up over on a thread on the general forum to every gaming website and game development website I know of.

Word is spreading and word is good.  :)

BTW:  Petition has been up 9 hours and has 116 signatures.

I agree with DD in the fact that I want to do something to help. Again, being a team member, hands are tied. Heartbreaking. I know I speak for the whole team when I say thank you for all your support. Fight the good fight! Phoenix has risen from the ashes before...I believe we can do it again :)
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J-Rod

Well, I'm sending a letter to Activision, and I hope everyone else will too. I hope someone can organize a letter writing campaign. Our previous attempts with Vivendi proved effective, and we should not just give up now. I have no doubt if enough people complained and told them how much goodwill they lose by doing this they would submit to our request. Regardless, we should let them know we feel this is a mistake on their part. With any luck, I can dig up the one I wrote to Vivendi and just make some changes.

It would be nice if those topics we had still existed somewhere that had templates, examples, tips for writing an effective letter, address information, and so forth. It doesn't take a lot of time or effort to write a letter, and it's worth a shot if you really give a crap at all about any of it.

tessspoon

Quote from: hamer1 on March 01, 2010, 04:42:31 PM
what article?
http://gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2010/03/01/fan-made-king-s-quest-sequel-killed.aspx

That info was revealed by Yonkey to the official Fannatics, but since it's in the article and public anyway I figured it didn't really matter if I answered your question.

(Posted on: March 01, 2010, 06:55:27 PM)


Quote from: J-Rod on March 01, 2010, 04:51:29 PM
It would be nice if those topics we had still existed somewhere that had templates, examples, tips for writing an effective letter, address information, and so forth. It doesn't take a lot of time or effort to write a letter, and it's worth a shot if you really give a crap at all about any of it.
Someone posted earlier a link to the original savekqIX site that had their letter on it, I'll try and find the link.

(Posted on: March 01, 2010, 06:57:11 PM)


http://www.savekqix.bravehost.com/

(Posted on: March 01, 2010, 06:59:51 PM)


wow, over 10000 views on this thread. Don't think I ever realized how many people knew about this project.

c-zo

     I really am disappointed to hear this news.  I've been a King's Quest fan since before grade school, I don't even remember how old I was, 6 or 7.  After all the decades past, just to see something like this come together was like a dream come true.  That people still shared a common bond in something that might get overlooked by most was truly something beyond gaming.  Because in essence, this wasn't just a game project but a call out to others who shared those countless hours in old school sierra games.  When I stumbled upon this website, I was just messing around in my search engine one day 4 years ago and actually saw a website for kings quest 9.  I might has well have seen a ghost. I've been looking forward to this for so long.  I extend my deepest condolences to those who have worked their butts off for a life long dream to come back.  Maybe with some petitions or letters, something can be done.  It's bad enough when people work hard for stuff like jobs and college and such, but this was a DREAM.  Dream can't be taken away, hopefully activision will understand this.  Good luck with everything phoenix, you guys are up there in my book.

c-zo, my first ever posting.

Zazzaro703

I cant freaking believe this. I feel so terrible for the team that has worked so hard for sooooo many years (I'm pretty sure I've been following since 2002 or 2003) just to be shut down with the finish line in site. DO NOT GIVE UP. This cant be the end of the line. My first thought too was put it out on a torrent somehow but i guess if it were my butt on the line i probably wouldnt risk it..... Yet. It's too bad its not as easy as changing names and the names of places. Like Kin Gram. Man this is just horrible. Please dont give up POS.

atec123

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click the link in my signature.  It's an online petition.
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