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The Silver Lining - Cease and Desist

Started by Yonkey, February 27, 2010, 08:59:56 PM

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oberonqa

And we're also running the online petition concurrently with the offline petition (still in the process of hammering out the details on that) to increase maximum exposure and overall efficiency of the campaign.

Ideally, a person wishing to support the Save The Silver Lining Movement will sign the online petition and then participate in the offline petition.  The biggest downfall of the online petition is it's general lack of weight.  However, when combined with the offline petition, both petitions are strengthened.

I think we're on the right track here.  And we've got a lot more ideas and stuff brewing to kick this C&D in the butt... so don't loose faith yet.
 
Chronicling the history of Sierra through the conversion of it's premiere magazine into an easy-to-use, searchable wiki format.

voidsoul22

Dunno if this has been posted already, I'm a few pages behind, but:

http://kotaku.com/5483798/guess-which-three-games-help-keep-activision-afloat

A targeted boycott is actually pretty simple, given this info, especially since Activision has gotten some bad press in the not-too-distant past regarding their treatment of customers already.  Way I see it, there are "only" five major things the boycott has to target:

- Guitar Hero (might not even be that difficult to convince people not to buy Guitar Hero Infinity-Squared, popularity of the franchise nonwithstanding)
- Call of Duty (hopefully everyone who really cares already has MW2, in which case they can be content to busy themselves with it exclusively for a while)
- WoW (likely a big problem, unfortunately)
- SCII (they've split it up into a trilogy, this move is not without substantial criticism of its own, we could build off this resentment)
- Diablo 3 (still a ways off, hopefully we can scare them before we need to pull the tongs on the Diablo diehards)

It will be tough to really hurt WoW subscriptions, and if you read the article that is very nearly the ENTIRE source of Blizzard's (not Activision's) revenue, so I don't know if the other vulnerabilities are going to be enough.  I certainly think that this makes a boycott a viable option, however, if more peaceful attempts at negotiation ultimately fail.

In the end, though, make sure you sign that f'ing petition!!!

crayauchtin

I've been pushing for a boycott, although it will make sad if I have to cancel my WoW subscription and not buy SCII or Diablo III. But it will be worth it!
"If your translation is correct, that was 'May a sleepy hippopotamus lie down on your house keys,' but you're not sure. Unfortunately, your fluency in griffin-speak is too low."

We're roleplaying in the King's Quest world: come join in the fun!

atec123

I dunno... Guitar hero is one of my favorite console games.....

But I already own all the first 4 so.....

and once they let TSL be released, I can get the new ones.

haha.

But I think a petition or the letters would be powerful too.

Maybe all of the above?  Petition, letters, AND boycott?

IDK.
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thurauh1

I'be been following this project on and off since 2002, I think? I even played the demo? the team released dome years ago. (I even thought I had an old account ont he forums, but I didn't). This is my first post (I think?) on the matter.

So here it goes:
Vivendi Universal gave the team a license for a non-commercial game in 2005 with the understanding that the contract or license could be terminated any any time by both parties. This is what Activision (who now owns the IP rights to the KQ games has done).
And Activision has send a cease and desist letter to the team - more precisely, their legal team has.  Normally, in these cases, you get 14 days or 30 days to comply with the decision, the cease and desist, in the letter - or else.

I don't quite understand why the team need to take down all related KQ material from their website, even the archives. This just doesn't make sense to me. We, as fans of the original KQ games, can still talk about our hopes for a new KQ game, and hopefully are also allowed to mention the fan project The Silver Lining. If not, other adventure game sites such as say http://www.gameboomers.com should make any mentions of even hoping for a new KQ game fo away as well.

As I understand, The game 'the silver lining' re-uses some assests from other KQ games?, including the name of characters etc. etc.
Activision then seems to be protecting their IP more than anything else. This could be one of their motives for doing this; the other motive could be that Activision seriously is considering making a new KQ games. If that's the case, I would encourage the team behind the Silver Lining to contact Activision and ask to get funded to make The Silver Lining into a (new) KQ game.

Another strategy, as other have said also, is this: cut the losses while you can. Take the experience, you have learned from tmaking this fan-based game and make your own game. Independently from the KQ games narratives, structures assests and characters.

Someone mentioned boycotting Activision games (e.g. Modern Warfare etc). I don't think this will cut even a dent in Activisions
bank-building, since, let's face it, adventure gamers are maybe close the being like dinosaurs (through no fault of their own, I find).
A game, like The Silver Lining would maybe sell like 10,000-20,000 copies or maybe around 50,000-100,000 copies, if released commercially. Modern Warfare 2 sold 10 or 20 times this amount.

One could then argue why would Activiosn then feel threathened...

As far as what I have done, I've done this:

I've opened a thread on the
http://www-rpgwatch.com in their non-rpg discussion.
I've also opened a thread on the http://www.rpgcodex.com
in their forums for adventure gaming.
(There's also a thread on this in their general news comments thread)

Sad this is, I find :(


I hope the team do get some good news soon...


oberonqa

While I have only played the demo released a couple of years ago, I can safetly say the game does not reuse any art asset from any previous KQ game.  This is because TSL is based on an engine called Torque, which is a 3D engine.  With the exception of Mask of Eternity, all the KQ's were 2D-based.  Art assets from those games would not even be usable by the Torque engine given then nature of 2D versus 3D assets.  As for the MoE assets... those were built around a proprietary engine (referred to by Sierra as the G Engine) and without knowing how those assets were compiled, they could not be ported to Torque either.

What the artists at Phoenix Online Studios did was make all new art assets, using the 2D sprites and hand-painted backgrounds from the earlier KQ games as inspiration.  Case in point (since it's still easy to find screenshots on the plethora of articles on the net right now) would be the picture of Graham walking up the stairs of the Castle of the Crown talking to Captain Saladin.  The artists had to create a 3D model of Graham AND Captain Saladin... then they had to model the interior of the Castle of the Crown in a 3D space.  None of these assets were available to the team prior to them making it.

The only assets TSL re-uses from previous KQ games would be the names of characters and places and references to events in previous KQ games.  This of course is the meat and potatoes of the C&D.

I just wanted to clarify that for a bit... as it's easy to make the assumption that POS was just stealing assets from other KQ games and putting those assets in their game.  That is not the case.
 
Chronicling the history of Sierra through the conversion of it's premiere magazine into an easy-to-use, searchable wiki format.

CertainEnemy

Quote from: voidsoul22 on March 02, 2010, 11:41:29 AM
- Guitar Hero (might not even be that difficult to convince people not to buy Guitar Hero Infinity-Squared, popularity of the franchise nonwithstanding)
Rock Band.

They actually work at quality, going so far as to say they will not create a Rock Band 3 until they can make some new gameplay innovations. They create weekly DLC (downloadable content), which is and will be compatible with all Rock Band games. And of course, there is The Beatles Rock Band.

Quote from: voidsoul22 on March 02, 2010, 11:41:29 AM- Call of Duty (hopefully everyone who really cares already has MW2, in which case they can be content to busy themselves with it exclusively for a while)
There is always Valve. I still play Team Fortress 2 a few hours every week.

Quote from: voidsoul22 on March 02, 2010, 11:41:29 AM- WoW (likely a big problem, unfortunately)
I can't really comment, sense I don't understand why anyone would essentially want to waste their time doing the exact same set of actions over and over and over and over ad nauseum.

Yonkey

Just wanted to mention the first post of this thread has now been updated with more links.
"A wish changes nothing. A decision changes everything."

Tolin

Question:  Under the C&D order, are those of us who did online VA and sent in forms we were asked to send required to comply in the same way?

i.e.  are we considered party to the main TSL team, legally?

(Posted on: March 02, 2010, 01:25:37 PM)


Posted on Activision's "Activision Assist" Facebook page, in a conversation thread regarding TSL a few hours ago:

Activision Assist Hi, I understand what you are looking for and the best thing to do is to write a letter (yes good old snail mail physical letter) to the company, in fact you might address it to global sales and marketing or global PR.

We all know how emails and correspondence works and sometimes it is just simply not enough to be heard. Strangely enough, in todays world, the written document still holds its weight and value

Send your comments, thoughts, suggestions, etc. to:

Activision/Blizzard Inc.
attn: PR
3100 Ocean Park Blvd
Santa Monica, CA 90405
Nathan Benner, TSL Q.A. Tester

Bob Wilson

You sure this isn't just a lame excuse to give up production? It seems that as soon as things start getting difficult for a couple of fangame enthusiasts they use a C&D as an excuse to give up. However, if this is a genuine reason then I apologise for jumping to this conclusion but surely you can see why people might think this.

waltzdancing

#290
Quote from: Tolin on March 02, 2010, 01:33:31 PM
Question:  Under the C&D order, are those of us who did online VA and sent in forms we were asked to send required to comply in the same way?

i.e.  are we considered party to the main TSL team, legally?

(Posted on: March 02, 2010, 01:25:37 PM)


Posted on Activision's "Activision Assist" Facebook page, in a conversation thread regarding TSL a few hours ago:

Activision Assist Hi, I understand what you are looking for and the best thing to do is to write a letter (yes good old snail mail physical letter) to the company, in fact you might address it to global sales and marketing or global PR.

We all know how emails and correspondence works and sometimes it is just simply not enough to be heard. Strangely enough, in todays world, the written document still holds its weight and value

Send your comments, thoughts, suggestions, etc. to:

Activision/Blizzard Inc.
attn: PR
3100 Ocean Park Blvd
Santa Monica, CA 90405

Here is the link for that page: http://www.facebook.com/#!/topic.php?uid=173789739310&topic=15415

It, to me, almost sounds like a challenge. They provided an address for us to write letters to the appropriate people too. We should all get on there too.

voidsoul22

I wanted to clarify my views about a potential boycott in 2 ways:

1.  A boycott is dirty business, and is going to be especially difficult to organize when it involves a far-flung, ambiguous "gaming community" (it can't just be the TSL community, I'll return to this in a sec).  Thus, it has a crucial "all-or-nothing" element to it - either you get the weight to intimidate the target into submission, or you don't, and furthermore you can pretty much kiss any further negotiation goodbye.

2.  As much as we the TSL fanbase love this project, and the KQ series in general, objectively and realistically speaking we're still a drop in the bucket compared to Activision's audience in general, and they almost certainly will not lose any sleep even if EVERY TSL supporter COMPLETELY and PERMANENTLY boycotts their products.  This is a move that would depend on huge segments of the gaming community to join us in sacrifice out of nothing more than simple "gamer empathy".  Even the portion of the SC2 fanbase pissed off by their tripling the effective cost of the (entire) game wouldn't have much vested interest unless we were to fully join causes, which would NEVER work (i.e. no way in hell Blizzard is going to scuttle the 3-game plan unless they are faced with complete annihilation).

So, overall: it is definitely premature to attempt initiating a boycott.  Before, it was never necessary: Vivendi caved under the petition(s) alone.  Trying it NOW would only give us the image of a bunch of angsty teens pouting about not having our way, which is the absolute LAST thing we need (not to mention what a slap in the face it would be to the devs if we corrupted their hard- and well-earned reputation that way).  It's just something to consider if Activision proves completely unapproachable to a more agreeable settlement.

A couple more things:

- I forget who was talking about it, but someone expressed the sentiment "you guys had it coming" because it was derivative of someone else's IP.  I agree that they misunderstand the entire motivation for the project, but more important, the whole point is irrelevant.  The team has never, not once, expressed any sense of "entitlement" to getting to finish their work, which actually underscores their passion even further.  The team has always maintained the utmost integrity when complying with the C&D's (talk about somethign that should NEVER be pluralized =( ), and don't need to be reminded of the now-manifested risk that they admitted from the start they were always aware of.  Not to mention that the whole accusation becomes even more superficial when you realize that this second C&D is actually reneging on an EARLIER agreement, regardless of whether or not the contract provided a future way out for the IP holder.

- @Bob Wilson, and unfortunately others who less recently expressed skepticism about the team's honesty: why point this out?  I mean, okay, yes, we have received no "proof" that this decision came from Activision.  However, these are people that we have talked to for YEARS, who have NEVER been dishonest with us about the necessity of slow work due to the fact it's all volunteer.  We have no reason to doubt their integrity, not at all.  And look at what you're doing if you're wrong: the team is actually under the heel of yet another corporate entity, this time with the finish line hovering agonizingly close,  and instead of offering sympathy, you accuse them of deceit and cowardice.  Honestly, is that STRONG possibility worth the brownie points for accurately identifying a cover-up?  Even if you have strong reservations about the team's honesty, at the very least keep them to yourself - please don't drag them into this thread, out of courtesy to the team.

Phew!  *heavy panting*

Tolin

#292
I'll agree with void's general sentiment that a boycott may be premature... I personally am not looking forward to to anything Activision has coming out (never been a big fan of SC or WC, even if they're somewhat enjoyable - not a big RTS fan)   WoW wasn't bad, but it's a huge time and cash sink.

My point in this is as follows:  Developers seem intent on destroying their PC support - C&C4, SCII, and others don't have and won't have official support for LAN play.  That's one thing that bugs me, but this action seems like another foot-dip in the PC Consumer pool to test the temperature and see if there really is anyone out there.  I fear that developers are deciding whether the PC is viable or not.

I want to protest, but I'll wait on that until my question a few posts ago is addressed.  (re: the C&D and its effect on/against the VA's)
Nathan Benner, TSL Q.A. Tester

crayauchtin

I think all of the "boycott naysayers" are forgetting one thing about all of this:

Activision did this.
Activision, who raised their prices because they could (and who's CEO basically said that)
Activision, who hired people from former Diablo teams and fired them after they completed what they were needed in the new Diablo for
Activision, who JUST fired the heads (at least) of IW, who creates the massively popular Modern Warfare games
And these are just SOME of the really unpopular things Activision's done lately.

Activision is NOT a well-loved company. There is enough people angry with them that a large boycott really shouldn't be too difficult to start, it just takes one group of vocal people to spread it.
"If your translation is correct, that was 'May a sleepy hippopotamus lie down on your house keys,' but you're not sure. Unfortunately, your fluency in griffin-speak is too low."

We're roleplaying in the King's Quest world: come join in the fun!

copycat

Quote from: MKCaylor on March 02, 2010, 11:21:51 AMEarly on in this thread I noticed someone mention Serenity as being produced because of Firefly fans. That isn't true, it's just a nice a belief that a lot of people have and spread. Serenity was created because Joss wanted it, not because of fan involvement. So the lesson to learn here is that fans AND developers need to be working on a way to try to continue the project.  Developers probably have the most sway and control over what's going to happen next.
Nah, that would've been 'Farscape' and 'Peacekeeper Wars'.
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The Silver Lining rises from its ashes!

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mo

I tend to think that in a case like this, trying to 'organize' a boycott is a little beyond the scope of the situation and the people involved in it. I think it's up to individuals to choose if they want to continue to support Activision or not. What we can do is simply spread the word about what has happened, and that there are people who are choosing not to buy Activision products anymore. If people who hear about it then feel strongly enough against the company for this or any other reason, they can make the choice not to support Activision if they desire. How much impact this has naturally depends on the number of people who care enough about the issue, and while that may not be enough to actually make Activision feel the pinch all the while they have millions of WOW subscribers and COD players, that's the way it must be.

Any kind of "official" boycott attempt would only be bad blood between the team and Activision, potentially harming future negotiations. If we, the fans who are otherwise unconnected to the project, wish to enact our own personal boycott by steering clear of Activision products, that is our choice (and a good one, in my opinion), but we should NOT, in ANY WAY, make it seem as though there is an organized, 'official' boycott attempt that is coming from the team behind 'The Silver Lining', firstly because there isn't, and secondly because, on the scale that it would exist, it would be more likely to do harm, as an act of agression, than it would to actually have the clout to pressure Activision into changing their decision.

I believe a show of community support via petitions and a letter writing campaign, followed by attempts at further negotiation between the team and Activision, is the right approach. Individuals who choose to enact their own personal boycott against Activision should indicate so in their own letter to the company and\or petition comment.

J-Rod

Quote from: Tolin on March 02, 2010, 01:33:31 PM


Activision/Blizzard Inc.
attn: PR
3100 Ocean Park Blvd
Santa Monica, CA 90405

Thanks for posting the address.

I believe a snail mail campaign is our best bet, outside of the gaming media/publications getting involved. When people can just fire off an E-mail or submit a paragraph to some web form for comments, it does not carry any weight, and it is likely not ever read by anyone who can make a change. Online petitions unfortunately do not carry weight either. Traditionally, paper petitions work because they are a promise of potential votes to a particular elected official who has the power to make the change. It is an exchange, and online petitions are not, and they can not even be verified to have real unique signatures.

A written letter is better. It shouldn't be a fiery hate-mail letter or threatening, but as cordial and professional as possible with only an 11th grade readability level. Most importantly, it should outline why it would be good for their company to go the way you're trying to get them to go. A "what's in it for them" of sorts in the grand scheme of things.

This is some of what I was taught in making a good complaint letter. I pretty regularly write companies when I receive either unusually good or bad service, and even though I'm a terrible writer, it usually gains a thoughtful response.

crayauchtin

Quote from: copycat on March 02, 2010, 04:53:15 PM
Quote from: MKCaylor on March 02, 2010, 11:21:51 AMEarly on in this thread I noticed someone mention Serenity as being produced because of Firefly fans. That isn't true, it's just a nice a belief that a lot of people have and spread. Serenity was created because Joss wanted it, not because of fan involvement. So the lesson to learn here is that fans AND developers need to be working on a way to try to continue the project.  Developers probably have the most sway and control over what's going to happen next.
Nah, that would've been 'Farscape' and 'Peacekeeper Wars'.
Right, Farscape's miniseries conclusion *was* the direct result of the fan campaign.
"If your translation is correct, that was 'May a sleepy hippopotamus lie down on your house keys,' but you're not sure. Unfortunately, your fluency in griffin-speak is too low."

We're roleplaying in the King's Quest world: come join in the fun!

PatrynXX

really disappointed to here this. I've kept an eye on this thru email for years.  Never actually came to the site in a long time :(  But that woke me up.  Although the petition seemed to think I'd already signed it so signed under another email addy.  I can't see why Activision can't honor the original agreement.  Seems to me if they buy a company the agreements go with it.  Even sent them an email.  Not a happy camper.  One should point out that Star Trek of Gods and Men, which brought back some original characters and the original Trek bridge back came to fruition.  I have the dvd to it.  The director and actors worked for free and had a ball doing it.  Certainly more trekkie than the reboot.

fan of tsl

Is there any way that you could get any of the gaming websites to post something about the situation for tsl? I can't help but think that if it is at all possible to get them to post something either to help the tsl cause or put bad press on activision. (to me having ign pc do a story of you guys trying to revive adventure platforms and already in the past getting a fan license but now getting this cease and desist could be something that they go for)