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The Silver Lining - Cease and Desist

Started by Yonkey, February 27, 2010, 08:59:56 PM

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Erpy

QuoteWell about activision owning TSL in a legal sense, I'm not so sure about that. They issue a stop order but what right do they have in stoping TSL in creating own games?

That wasn't really what I was saying. They can't stop POS from creating their own game from scratch, but the contract would definitely prevent them from using resources that were made for TSL specifically.


oberonqa

Yea the survey site gives me a detailed report of the survey results.  I have to manually enter the results into excel (the site wants to charge for the ability to automatically export), but it's a piece of cake to enter the results data into Excel (especially since I've already got the legwork in Excel done).

Once I get a decent sample I'll look into sharing it.
 
Chronicling the history of Sierra through the conversion of it's premiere magazine into an easy-to-use, searchable wiki format.

threej_lc

Hey guys!  I just had the GREATEST IDEA!

You can just change the names of characters/pictures so you're not using copyrighted material!

WAIT!  Hear me out on this one!

Obviously, there's no saving Graham.  He's got to go.  I think the easiest way to deal with that is to switch the game from 3rd person to first person.  IIRC, the engine you're using for it is natively for first person shooters anyway, so it should be an easy fix.  Already you're on the way, who can claim its a King's Quest game if its first person?

Secondly, you'd have to change the images of al the other KQ-related characters.  I understand that you really don't have time to come up with unique personalities and pictures for every single character in the series again after 8 years, so here's my proposal.  Replace them all with pumpkins.  That's right.  Pumpkins.  One single image, of different sizes and placements, in 32bit true color graphic glory.  Pumpkins, pumpkins, everywhere!  Talking pumpkins!  inanimate pumpkins!  Inventory pumpkins!  Evil wizard pumpkins!  You only ever had to draw one model!

Penultimately, you're gonna have to change the plot a bit, so that it doesn't so clearly derive from King's Quest IP.  So the black cloak society has got to go.  But from that point on, the new plot basically fixes itself.  Why did evil pumpkin wizards attack the castle?  Where did these hordes and hordes of talking gourdes come from anyway?  Well, that's quite obvious.  From the garden of talking plants on the Isle of Won... on Sleepy Isle!      And Check, the great pumpkin king, (changed from Blanche/Queen for IP reasons)  in ire after losing his beloved... easter egg... sent his minions to attack the kingdom because if he can't have easter, no one can!

The purpose of the game is for Grah, er, the player, to travel about the kingdom, destroying the endless legion of pumpkin pirates, violent vegetables, and jaded jack-o-lanterns, turning them into a muddled mass of gory gourdes. 

Finally, the name of the game has to change.  So instead of TSL, it'll be called Smashing Pumpkins into Small Piles of Putrid Debris, or SPISPOPD.

Oh... wait...

atec123

Quote from: threej_lc on March 12, 2010, 01:52:02 PM
Hey guys!  I just had the GREATEST IDEA!

You can just change the names of characters/pictures so you're not using copyrighted material!

WAIT!  Hear me out on this one!

Obviously, there's no saving Graham.  He's got to go.  I think the easiest way to deal with that is to switch the game from 3rd person to first person.  IIRC, the engine you're using for it is natively for first person shooters anyway, so it should be an easy fix.  Already you're on the way, who can claim its a King's Quest game if its first person?

Secondly, you'd have to change the images of al the other KQ-related characters.  I understand that you really don't have time to come up with unique personalities and pictures for every single character in the series again after 8 years, so here's my proposal.  Replace them all with pumpkins.  That's right.  Pumpkins.  One single image, of different sizes and placements, in 32bit true color graphic glory.  Pumpkins, pumpkins, everywhere!  Talking pumpkins!  inanimate pumpkins!  Inventory pumpkins!  Evil wizard pumpkins!  You only ever had to draw one model!

Penultimately, you're gonna have to change the plot a bit, so that it doesn't so clearly derive from King's Quest IP.  So the black cloak society has got to go.  But from that point on, the new plot basically fixes itself.  Why did evil pumpkin wizards attack the castle?  Where did these hordes and hordes of talking gourdes come from anyway?  Well, that's quite obvious.  From the garden of talking plants on the Isle of Won... on Sleepy Isle!      And Check, the great pumpkin king, (changed from Blanche/Queen for IP reasons)  in ire after losing his beloved... easter egg... sent his minions to attack the kingdom because if he can't have easter, no one can!

The purpose of the game is for Grah, er, the player, to travel about the kingdom, destroying the endless legion of pumpkin pirates, violent vegetables, and jaded jack-o-lanterns, turning them into a muddled mass of gory gourdes. 

Finally, the name of the game has to change.  So instead of TSL, it'll be called Smashing Pumpkins into Small Piles of Putrid Debris, or SPISPOPD.

Oh... wait...
THat is GENIUS!!


hahahah

nice one man.
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oberonqa

They would also have to throw out all the locations... since a goodly number of them are 3D representations of prior KQ locations... 

But more importantly though, what would be left of TSL if you remove all the KQ references?  It would be like tearing down a fully built and furnished house, leaving behind the land the house was built on and a bunch of refuse littering the land. 

KQ is engraved into each and every facet of TSL.  We're not talking about just the characters and the storyline.  If it was indeed as simple as that, it wouldn't be an issue.  Change the names of the characters and change the storyline a bit and there you go.

However, the building blocks that make up TSL are KQ.  Remove those building blocks and your left with a husk.  Oh sure the husk would be in the shape of a game... but the blood, organs, muscles, and soul wouldn't be there.  It'd be an empty husk that would need to be filled up again.

Basically... taking the tech demo from 2006 as a point of discussion (since thats all I have seen)... remove the KQ elements and your left with a user interface and music score.  Everything else would be gone.  There would be no rooms, no puzzles, no characters, no story.  Just a blank screen with a user interface playing music in the background.

Not a problem!  New assets could be created.  A new story could be written.  Very true and indeed that is a possible course of action for POS.  However, at that point, they would be creating an entirely new game.  There wouldn't be much application for the assets they had already created, since the assets they have created are too deeply ingrained in KQ.

To put it another way, take a look at Super Mario Bros 3 from the Nintendo (NES) console.  Just about everyone I know has seen or played this game.  Close your eyes and imagine seeing a screenshot of that game.  It's a nice screenshot, with Mario jumping on a Goomba in a colorful world.  You have the status bar on the bottom of the screen that shows how many lives you have, how many coins you have collected, the world/level number, and your score.

Now erase everything on that screenshot except for the status bar.

That is what removing the KQ elements from TSL would do.
 
Chronicling the history of Sierra through the conversion of it's premiere magazine into an easy-to-use, searchable wiki format.

VampirateLoyal

Hi everyone,

So, I've been watching this website since I was like, 14 or 15 years old. I've seen it go through all this rubbish before, and I think all of us can fight it again. I hate it when big, corporate sores like Activision throw their weight around when it's obvious they aren't going to supply their customers with what they want anyway.

Kings Quest fangame? No no, of course not! What's in our new game lineup? Eh... a first-person shooter.

*bangs their heads repeatedly against something heavy and preferably crafted from fine steel or titanium*

WAKE UP ACTIVISION! Either give us what we want or shut up about it! I could understand it if they offered to buy the game from all of you for an insane amount of money. That would be justice. But apparently we need to show them once again how strong this community is once again.

Again, I've been inactive for a while, but I've always supported this game and I've already done what I could once. I'll do it again and spread the word as far as I can. After all, the worst thing they can possibly do is be total jerks about it and ignore us. Ooh.. scary.
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Naruru

I just want to clarify something that I've been reading here about the Chrono Trigger fan game that was brought up a couple of times.

There are two different fan games that have been in the limelight due to Squenix C&Ds. The first was a complete graphical overhaul called "Chrono Trigger Resurrection" which was simply going to be a retelling of the same story with better graphics and the second was a ROM hack called "Crimson Echoes" that served as a fan sequel (or a midquel between Trigger and Cross). The latter was 98% into completion when Squenix pulled the plug on the project. Please don't confuse the two. :/

I've been following the progress of TSL on and off since its conception. Most of my disappointment comes from Activision's dick move but the other part of my disappointment comes from the length of time that POS took to work on the game. When POS received the fan license, an unspoken race against the clock had started. The one-sided, unfair nature of the licensing agreement should have made that very clear - the project was subject to the scrutiny of the copyright holders and they had the rights to shut you down at any time for any reason if they so wanted. That meant that the sooner you completed the work, the better chances of the game surviving. At least long enough to have seen the first game publicly released. It was just unfortunate and sad that the team failed to beat the invisible clock.

It was also naive if (if this was indeed the case) you believed that the fan license was indefinite. In this day and age, companies are constantly merging and being swallowed up, I am surprised if no one anticipated the possibility of this happening in the years that was spent developing the game. The thought of that should have lit a hellfire under the bottoms of the development team.

oberonqa

Quote from: Naruru on March 12, 2010, 05:36:54 PM
It was also naive if (if this was indeed the case) you believed that the fan license was indefinite. In this day and age, companies are constantly merging and being swallowed up, I am surprised if no one anticipated the possibility of this happening in the years that was spent developing the game. The thought of that should have lit a hellfire under the bottoms of the development team.

I believe the reason for the long development cycle has been mostly due to the development teams desire for perfection.  To create something truly memorable.  To create something that wasn't just a fan tribute... but something that could join the other entries in the King's Quest series has a work of art... timeless.

A lofty goal?  Perhaps.  Idle fancy of a hopeless romantic?  Most definitely.  But let me tell you this.  The development team's passion for their project is beyond reproach.  They can be criticized and ridiculed for taking 8 years to develop this game, but that very criticism and ridicule has only spurned them to put forth their very best.

Gaming society has grown complacent due to game companies cranking out varying degree's of garbage.  What ever happened to expecting quality in the games we play?  Quality takes time, but it seems that gamers have adopted the same busy-bee attitude that our society as a whole has embraced.  The people at POS chose to focus on quality.  The product they were preparing to release was the result of 8 years of dedication to quality.  They probably could have released the game in 2007 if they wanted to.  But would it have been a quality product?  Would it have been able to withstand the test of time and become something timeless?  More importantly, would it have even been remembered at all if it had been rushed out the door in an attempt to beat an invisible clock?

Game companies should take a note out of POS's playbook as far as I'm concerned.  Quality is always better than quantity.  And if your making a quality product, people will wait.
 
Chronicling the history of Sierra through the conversion of it's premiere magazine into an easy-to-use, searchable wiki format.

splat44

Quote from: threej_lc on March 12, 2010, 01:52:02 PM
Hey guys!  I just had the GREATEST IDEA!

You can just change the names of characters/pictures so you're not using copyrighted material!

WAIT!  Hear me out on this one!

Obviously, there's no saving Graham.  He's got to go.  I think the easiest way to deal with that is to switch the game from 3rd person to first person.  IIRC, the engine you're using for it is natively for first person shooters anyway, so it should be an easy fix.  Already you're on the way, who can claim its a King's Quest game if its first person?

Secondly, you'd have to change the images of al the other KQ-related characters.  I understand that you really don't have time to come up with unique personalities and pictures for every single character in the series again after 8 years, so here's my proposal.  Replace them all with pumpkins.  That's right.  Pumpkins.  One single image, of different sizes and placements, in 32bit true color graphic glory.  Pumpkins, pumpkins, everywhere!  Talking pumpkins!  inanimate pumpkins!  Inventory pumpkins!  Evil wizard pumpkins!  You only ever had to draw one model!

Penultimately, you're gonna have to change the plot a bit, so that it doesn't so clearly derive from King's Quest IP.  So the black cloak society has got to go.  But from that point on, the new plot basically fixes itself.  Why did evil pumpkin wizards attack the castle?  Where did these hordes and hordes of talking gourdes come from anyway?  Well, that's quite obvious.  From the garden of talking plants on the Isle of Won... on Sleepy Isle!      And Check, the great pumpkin king, (changed from Blanche/Queen for IP reasons)  in ire after losing his beloved... easter egg... sent his minions to attack the kingdom because if he can't have easter, no one can!

The purpose of the game is for Grah, er, the player, to travel about the kingdom, destroying the endless legion of pumpkin pirates, violent vegetables, and jaded jack-o-lanterns, turning them into a muddled mass of gory gourdes. 

Finally, the name of the game has to change.  So instead of TSL, it'll be called Smashing Pumpkins into Small Piles of Putrid Debris, or SPISPOPD.

Oh... wait...

Yes, that's exactly what should have been done long ago!

If we take following thread between Erpy and I:
Quote from: Erpy on March 12, 2010, 06:20:08 AM
QuoteWell about activision owning TSL in a legal sense, I'm not so sure about that. They issue a stop order but what right do they have in stoping TSL in creating own games?

That wasn't really what I was saying. They can't stop POS from creating their own game from scratch, but the contract would definitely prevent them from using resources that were made for TSL specifically.



We all know "Cease and Desist" only deal the product!
About contract that prevent from using resources made for TSL, I am not so sure about this neither!

By taking threej_lc suggestion is great of course!
Except for changing TSL that is!

POS can suggest members at TSL to create own graphics and ect...
Perhaps, forum admin can creat special groups that would be shared among those who do the works.
Yes, I mean keep that information out activision eyes that is.

Hopefuly this can be done!

By the way, oberonga, I am looking forward to see those datas!

threej_lc

Quote from: oberonqa on March 12, 2010, 03:30:11 PM
Remove those building blocks and your left with a husk.  Oh sure the husk would be in the shape of a game... but the blood, organs, muscles, and soul wouldn't be there.  It'd be an empty husk that would need to be filled up again.

What do you mean they wouldn't be there?  They'd be oozing all over the ground right where you smashed them into a million pieces!

But seriously folks,

A few of you took my comments about SPISPOPD WAY too seriously.  I don't actually think the change IP option is feasible for TSL.  My previous post was merely a play on an ancient internet meme about Doom.

For more information, check out http://www.trilobite.org/spispopd/




Animan

#450
Maybe I'm gettin a bit hot under the collar.

The next f'tard (ed. find a discriminatory definition and i'll pull the word) that suggests the game must immediately be leaked to satisfy their personal search for free software should be locked in a trunk and deep sixed.

As to the TOTALY RETARDED IDIOTS that think it is easy to replace all the visual elements in the game as well as all of the text references. I would suggest get a life ... but actually ... go stuff yourselves.

Cheap and sleazy is not what the developers have been working on for 8 years ... yes that is more years than you can remember.  

Bloody juvenile idiot brats... I remember when King's Quest was originally released and demonstrated on IBM pc's and pc junior's.
You have no respect for what is being done here. You are completely clueless as to what the introduction of an actual GUI meant to computer games.

For the members of POS all my respect to you!

Animan

edited due to complaint from member unable to deal with a few harsh words. BTW You appear to be unaware that discriminatory slurs by definition refer to a person's religion, sexual preference or race. None of those areas were infringed upon by my statements. Idiocy (thankfully) is not a protected state of being and may be called out by anyone at any time.

Again, an apology to those unable to deal with harsh words. I honestly don't know what you will do when you go out into the real world, but best of luck with it.

Tage7

Quote from: threej_lc on March 12, 2010, 08:21:02 PMWhat do you mean they wouldn't be there?  They'd be oozing all over the ground right where you smashed them into a million pieces!

But seriously folks,

A few of you took my comments about SPISPOPD WAY too seriously.  I don't actually think the change IP option is feasible for TSL.  My previous post was merely a play on an ancient internet meme about Doom.

For more information, check out http://www.trilobite.org/spispopd/

I can't really blame some people for not being able to catch sarcasm in script rather than verse. I thought the pumpkin stuff was classic though. :suffer:

I think the lesson taught today is for everyone to lighten up. I've done my fair share of explaining why it's not easy to simply rename things here, change colors there, etc. I think we all need to take a deep breath and to remember that we're all here for the same reason. We all want to see TSL come to fruition. Some people just express it in other ways... The best choice as someone who has the whole picture rather than those who just popped in from an article posted somewhere on the interwebs is to just enjoy life and not let these things get to you so much. :) I'm sure the POS team won't be swayed to do things in a sloppish or pirate-like way.

splat44

Quote from: Animan on March 12, 2010, 11:59:08 PM
Maybe I'm gettin a bit hot under the collar.

The next f'tard that suggests the game must immediately be leaked to satisfy their personal search for free software should be locked in a trunk and deep sixed.

As to the TOTALY RETARDED IDIOTS that think it is easy to replace all the visual elements in the game as well as all of the text references. I would suggest get a life ... but actually ... go stuff yourselves.

Cheap and sleazy is not what the developers have been working on for 8 years ... yes that is more years than you can remember. 

Bloody juvenile idiot brats... I remember when King's Quest was originally released and demonstrated on IBM pc's and pc junior's.
You have no respect for what is being done here. You are completely clueless as to what the introduction of an actual GUI meant to computer games.

For the members of POS all my respect to you!

Animan

Well you're questiong idior brats!

Read what Activision's CEO is saying in public by taking the fun out computer game making:

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6226758.html?tag=latestheadlines;title;1

There no one here are more idiot than Activision's CEO and such guy need to be fire on spot!


RollingStone

#453
Quote from: Animan on March 12, 2010, 11:59:08 PM
The next f'tard that suggests the game must immediately be leaked to satisfy their personal search for free software should be locked in a trunk and deep sixed.

As to the TOTALY RETARDED IDIOTS that think it is easy to replace all the visual elements in the game as well as all of the text references. I would suggest get a life ... but actually ... go stuff yourselves.


We appreciate your support, and I can understand your frustration. However, you need to read the TSL Forum Rules again, especially #3: "No discriminatory slurs of any kind will be tolerated." I think that includes calling people "f'tards" and "retarded idiots," so please try to be a little more civil. Thank you.

Update:

I don't know where you got your definition of the term "discriminatory slur," but I Googled it and this is the closest thing to an official definition that I found. It's from page 78 of a book called "A Legal and Ethical Handbook for Ending Discrimination in the Workplace" by David A. Robinson. The section entitled "Have a Written Policy Prohibiting Discriminatory Slurs and Discriminatory Harassment, and Distribute It to All Employees" begins: "It is a good idea for employers to have a written policy distributed to employees that prohibits harassment, slurs, and other adverse behavior based on race, color, national origin, ancestry, sex, sexual orientation, pregnancy, age, religion, and disability" (emphasis mine). Mental retardation is a disability. So I am far, far from the only one who agrees that the use of the word "retarded" or "retard" or an obvious variation such as "f'tard" to mean "stupid" or "stupid person" constitutes a discriminatory slur. The fact that you think I'm making this up myself makes me wonder if you have ever gone "out into the real world." There's a big difference between words that are merely "harsh" and words that are offensive.

But you clearly just don't get what I was talking about, so I don't want to argue about it anymore.

oberonqa

Heads up folks:

There is a new article up on the net, this one featuring an interview with Phoenix Online Studios.  Be sure to check it out, as it has some great insight from the dev team about the current situation.

http://www.shdon.com/blog/2010/03/14/the-silver-lining-followup-an-interview-with-the-team
 
Chronicling the history of Sierra through the conversion of it's premiere magazine into an easy-to-use, searchable wiki format.

Yonkey

I've now updated the first post.  Thanks again for interviewing us, Steven Don. :)
"A wish changes nothing. A decision changes everything."

splat44

Ya! I've seen this on facebook.

At least a chance in reworking the project in being put into consideration!

Great interview!

Delling

Huh... what perplexes me is that Vivendi asked the team to intervene at one point... do they know nothing of fanbases? You can't really control them... only appease them. ;P
Noli me tangere! Nescio ubi fuisti!
Don't touch me! I don't know where you've been!

Marquess of Pembroke
Duke of Saxony in Her Majesty's Court
Knight of the Swan for Her Imperial Highness

...resistance was obviously useless against a family that could invent italics.

"Let the locative live."

http://my.ddo.com/referral/Delling87

Yonkey

Heh, exactly.  That's why to this day, I still think it wasn't the team alone who managed to convince Vivendi to reconsider.  The fans certainly played their part in it as well. 8)
"A wish changes nothing. A decision changes everything."

tropicanafan

While I have been doing emailing writing, petition signing and all that...my husband who's never heard of or played King's Quest signed the petition and has been emailing Activision. He's writing original letters too. He's either big on justice/fairness or just loves me that much.  ;D