What I would do...

[Delling]

I just, again, find it a very sad thing that someone has completely given up on the project to the point that they're leaking confidential information that, even being up for five minutes, could be all over the Internet right now.

...You didn't by any chance send the script to beernutts now, did you guys?

oh, beernutts... I wonder where our favorite trolls are these days... are they amongst the more flamey/trolly guests, perchance? *lets his curiosity idle out*

I'm at work right now, but rest assured that we will be investigating whoever this person is fully.

Hehe, sounds so ominous!   

DUN DUN DUN

[crayauchtin]

I had assumed it was a fake, how sad that it wasn't. Very depressing.

[MangoMercury]

Mind you, I think if it were beernutts, he probably would have made it obvious it was him, since he seems to have no repercussions on his actions...

I think it's one of those things where you'd hope someone just made a fake document or something; a joke would have been funny - giving out the actual TSL stuff isn't good.  I hope you manage to find who it was, Yonkey.

[Haids1987]

Me too, Mango.  Let us know, Yonkers. 

[Yonkey]

Well, the good news is that it's no one registered in the forum.  The file itself is pretty old and was uploaded at a previous site the team used to use for internal groups.  The other directors and I cleared out all other files from that website as a precaution.

As for who it is, well, they used some kind of spoofed IP address but connected from a dedicated server, which like any other ISP, prohibits the hosting of copywritten content.  It wouldn't be very difficult to report them and have them lose their server, which they're paying $99-$1000/month to use. 

For the time being, we decided to give them one chance, since it may have been done out of frustration/foolishness.  But if they try posting it again, we will report it to Activision's legal dept to investigate further.

[MangoMercury]

Well, at least that tension is lifted - I would have hated to know it was one of our friends on here.  But here's hoping that person, or anyone else, doesn't choose to upload the document again.

Honestly, I thought it was a joke and someone had pasted a giant "Suffer" onto a page and saved it as the TSL Story.  As soon as I saw that wasn't the case, I shut it down and deleted it.  I'm not giving up on the game yet and I'll look forward to seeing these things when I'm actually playing them, NOT having them spoiled by notes.

I hope you manage to find out who it is though, Yonkey.

[crayauchtin]

Honestly, I thought it was a joke and someone had pasted a giant "Suffer" onto a page and saved it as the TSL Story.  As soon as I saw that wasn't the case, I shut it down and deleted it.  I'm not giving up on the game yet and I'll look forward to seeing these things when I'm actually playing them, NOT having them spoiled by notes.

That's exactly what I did too, Mango! I refuse to have this game and this experience spoiled for me!

[chucklas]

When I saw what happened at first I felt upset because I missed my chance to see the plot.  That is the main reason for me playing adventure games is the story.  To be totally honest I would be happy with a book, or movie...etc.  I grew up with the characters and would love to know what direction things would have been headed.

Perhaps I still feel a bit that way, but I am glad that it did not leak too far.  From what I can tell, there is no mention of the file anywhere else at this point.  It would strike a huge blow to those working so hard to save the project.  The last thing we need is someone trying to undermine the hardwork that is currently being done.

If Activision does not budge, I will be saddened to not know the followup to the KQ tale, but I am willing to wait it out and hope that at some point we will be able to enjoy the hard work that has been done.  I would have gladly paid the $50 or whatever it is now a days for a video game to have played this one.  I hope that the efforts of the fans here helps activision realize that perhaps the genre is not dead and that the Sierra IP actually has value.  I would love it if they decided to extend some of the old series since it appears as though they dont want others doing it for them.

[MangoMercury]

I think personally, that if there is absolutely and utterly no way that the game will ever be produced, that perhaps the plot should be posted, at least in part, because I would love to know what happens.

Of course, and I edit to add, I think this should be at the discretion of the team.  It wouldn't be right for them to be pressured into it but at the same time, I think that longtime and new followers alike would love to know the TSL team's interpretation on the continuity of the series.

But otherwise, I am willing to wait as long as it takes to actually play this experience without knowing what happens beforehand.

[Haids1987]

I'm with you, Mango, I'll wait until my hair turns grey. I keep saying this, and only because I believe it--this is not the end of TSL!  As Dumbledore said, "We must try not to sink beneath our anguish, Harry, but battle on." 

[waltzdancing]

I have to tell you guys what I would do if I was in TSL's shoes. There are many rights when it comes to copywrite and that is what this argument is all about. We are using Activisions, IP, expanding on their games. They have a right to complain however TSL should look into a Compulsory License, we would have to pay specified royalties and compliance with statutory conditions.

I would also talk to an attorney about the fair use clause. I know I am going to get a lot of heat about this but I would and this is what a judge would be looking at

1. The purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes
2. The nature of the copyrighted work
3. The amount and substantially of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole
4. The effect of the use upon the potential market for, or value of, the copyrighted work.

I will use what knowledge I have of the current situation with the game and how they fit into each catergory.
1. The character of the use of the game is for pure enjoyment of a good game for the fans to play. Its not educational but it is nonprofit and I think that can be used in TSL's favor. It is also different from every other game making it completely different.
2. The nature of the work is a game nothing harmful.
3. The amount of work in the game are the characters and places. These are needed to continue the story of this family.
4. This game would not harm the market for the original work, it will enhance it and spark a new interest in it. 

If a judge can be convinced of these four issues as well, then there is no infringemen on copyrighted work and the fair use clause is in play. I would gladly donate money to this cause as this project deserves to see the light of day. Also Activision might just let us release the game because it doesn't want two court cases on its hands.

I guess we can debate this if you want.

[crayauchtin]

When it says "nature of the work" it doesn't mean so much that it's a game (in this case), it's more of a reference of how involved the original work is and whether or not the nature of the original work would be detracted from by whatever's being added. Given how vague much of the original world is, it's pretty easy to argue that the world created and that the storyline and the games themselves are of a nature which allows for creative input from other sources.

[oberonqa]

I have to tell you guys what I would do if I was in TSL's shoes. There are many rights when it comes to copywrite and that is what this argument is all about. We are using Activisions, IP, expanding on their games. They have a right to complain however TSL should look into a Compulsory License, we would have to pay specified royalties and compliance with statutory conditions.

I would also talk to an attorney about the fair use clause. I know I am going to get a lot of heat about this but I would and this is what a judge would be looking at

1. The purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes
2. The nature of the copyrighted work
3. The amount and substantially of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole
4. The effect of the use upon the potential market for, or value of, the copyrighted work.

I will use what knowledge I have of the current situation with the game and how they fit into each catergory.
1. The character of the use of the game is for pure enjoyment of a good game for the fans to play. Its not educational but it is nonprofit and I think that can be used in TSL's favor. It is also different from every other game making it completely different.
2. The nature of the work is a game nothing harmful.
3. The amount of work in the game are the characters and places. These are needed to continue the story of this family.
4. This game would not harm the market for the original work, it will enhance it and spark a new interest in it. 

If a judge can be convinced of these four issues as well, then there is no infringemen on copyrighted work and the fair use clause is in play. I would gladly donate money to this cause as this project deserves to see the light of day. Also Activision might just let us release the game because it doesn't want two court cases on its hands.

I guess we can debate this if you want.

I'm in complete and total agreement here.  One of the Facebook Group members brought up the fair use clause and it really got me thinking... which is why I've been on a legal kick the last day or two.  It's really a gray area and that stems from the ambiguity of the way the fair use clause is written.

I think (and this is just my opinion) that fair use was created for situations such as this... fan-based derivative works.  If POS was looking to sell TSL, this wouldn't be an issue, as it would be a clear cut copyright issue.  But they aren't looking to sell TSL, which is what I think puts it in the realm of fair use.

I too would be willing to donate money towards paying legal fees... if only for a chance to get this in front of a judge so both sides can put it all on the table and let the judge decide whether it's fair use or copyright infringement.

Of course it's still too early to consider this, but if it did come to that, what would you all think if I put up a community chest where people can donate money to pay POS's legal fees?

[crayauchtin]

The problem, as Erpy's said, is that there was a contract so you can't really argue fair use anymore -- as much as we would all LOVE to!

[oberonqa]

If it was really a contract issue.... why would Activision file a C&D?  Thats what I don't get.  I am familiar with the Vivendi license that was granted and it could be revoked at any time.

That being the case, why not simply revoke the license? 

That's what doesn't add up here and Erpy is simply assuming it's a contract issue.  If it was a contract issue, there would be no need for a C&D.

[waltzdancing]

I'd so a community chest if the petition doesn't work out. It can't be a contract issue because all they have to say is we are not going to do this and it would end right there. The fair use clause was created becuase all work is based off of something. You can't help it. POS needs to talk to a copywrite lawyer, just talk and see if they have a case or not. I don't know anything about the law but by reading this textbook really makes me think. You don't have to cover all three anyway. IF you miss the first point they will look at then they weigh the fourth one more heavily. I think in the future, TSL might have something or talk to another gameing company who can try and get the rights. Tell Tale anyone?

[crayauchtin]

Even if it is a contract issue, it's still not fair use because this project is technically owned by Activision since they have control over it.

At least, that's my understanding.

[waltzdancing]

There doesn't need to be a contract when it comes to fair use. Activision owns the IP. No disputing it but if this comes down to copyright then fanfiction is infringement. If I quote a book or movie as a joke then it is infringement.

Fair use was created to allow the public some freedom. Roberta Williams used free use of the fairy tale references used throughout Kings Quest. I don't know the particulars of the agreement with Vivindi but until we know more about why the C&D order came down we can only speculate.

[racx_00]

Mind you, I think if it were beernutts, he probably would have made it obvious it was him, since he seems to have no repercussions on his actions...

I think it's one of those things where you'd hope someone just made a fake document or something; a joke would have been funny - giving out the actual TSL stuff isn't good.  I hope you manage to find who it was, Yonkey.

I really doubt Beernutts would stoop that low.

[Japster83]

Yes that is very disheartening...  but unfortunately for that person... they have a non-disclosure agreement with Phoenix Online Studios and posting that link... no matter how short a time it was up.... constitutes a breach of contract.

Sucks to be that person to be sure...

As George Carlin would say- I never got a pink slip, you know what i got, a guy coming around my desk yelling "GET THE $%^& OUTTA HERE!!! What a putz, he won't be back any time soon