The King's Quest Companion

[TheReturnofDMD]

As the KQ Companion is pretty hard to find--Only a few copies on Amazon and Ebay, all used and it's been long out of print--
I was wondering if someone would be interested in scanning the KQ Companion into PDF files and uploading it, basically like what Andy Roark did with the Sierra game manuals and InterAction magazine articles.

[tessspoon]

I'd love to if I had a scanner.

[I_am_so_nifty]

I'd love to if I had one of the books. 

[oberonqa]

I have a copy of the Third Edition King's Quest Companion... and a scanner.... but to be honest what you are requesting is of.... questionable legality.  Just because it's out of print doesn't mean the copyright is null and void.  I believe on printed works the copyright is valid for 50 years after the death of the author (I could be wrong there, so please be gentle if I am indeed wrong).

A better course of action would be to just buy a used copy off of Amazon Marketplace.  That's where I got mine and it was only $10 with shipping... and it's in pretty good shape to be honest.

[I_am_so_nifty]

Right, right. Don't want to put any legal troubles on Phoenix Online. 

[Baggins]

To be complete you would have to scan at parts of Second Edition and all of Fourth Edition. You'd also need to scan in parts of first edition and 3rd edition to show the chapter progression changes.

Second Edition is important for the An Encyclopedia of Daventry. Fourth edition has KQ7 material. I've already scanned the maps. I think I also scanned most of the artwork, but never got around to uploading them.

Wonder's if someone would be willing to scan up the novels too .

[tessspoon]

Is there anything I'm missing in not having the fourth edition, only the separate KQ7 edition? (Though it would be cool to have it just to have the set )

[TheReturnofDMD]

I have a copy of the Third Edition King's Quest Companion... and a scanner.... but to be honest what you are requesting is of.... questionable legality.  Just because it's out of print doesn't mean the copyright is null and void.  I believe on printed works the copyright is valid for 50 years after the death of the author (I could be wrong there, so please be gentle if I am indeed wrong).

A better course of action would be to just buy a used copy off of Amazon Marketplace.  That's where I got mine and it was only $10 with shipping... and it's in pretty good shape to be honest.

Hmm...
It's not like it would be done for profit, and Andy Roark scanned all of the InterAction Magazine issues (which as far as I'm aware would still be copyright of Activision), all of the game manuals of most Sierra games, plus articles on Sierra games from other, now defunct gaming magazines, and he has yet to encounter any legal difficulties.

I just think it would be a great thing for the fan community just as much as Andy's InterAction scans were. For me, I had never read any InterAction articles except for the excerpts in the 1994 KQ Collection and it was really awesome, plus it preserves these long out of print Sierra/KQ fan goodies for generations to come.

[Baggins]

Well to be fair;
Many of the other sierra hintbooks have already been scanned, as have the manuals, as have most of the Interaction magazines which are also technically copyrighted.;
http://www.sierragamers.com/aspx/m/629854

Is there anything I'm missing in not having the fourth edition, only the separate KQ7 edition? (Though it would be cool to have it just to have the set )

Uh well I don't know what hte separate authorized KQ7 guide has. Do you have chapters setup for it? I know at least the novel is the same in both. But companion also has a Derek Karlavaegen chapter preceding it (I don't know if that's in the KQ7 guide). Other than that there are just some minor chapter changes to the introduction. Everything else is pretty much the same as third edition except for the introduction chapter changes (you'd definitely need to add the material from the 3rd edition introduction chapter that's different).

As for having a collection I own all the companions, first edition is worth owning simply for the artwork and maps original to that version. There are some minor paraphragh differences in the introduction and world of daventry chapters compared to future editions which is interesting. Which lead to the whole "the world fluctuates and changes" retcon in the future editions to explain the changes in the world and maps between editions.

[TheReturnofDMD]

Well to be fair;
Many of the other sierra hintbooks have already been scanned, as have the manuals, as have most of the Interaction magazines which are also technically copyrighted.;
http://www.sierragamers.com/aspx/m/629854

My point exactly, and the guy who scanned them (Andy Roak) hasn't encountered any legal trouble, and it's been around a year since the InterAction and game manuals went up.

[Baggins]

As its been, I've been typing up a few of articles in King's Quest Omnipedia almost word for word from the book. Just a minor additions from different sources. My little way to give people a taste of the books .

On a side note we have game designers breaking copyright laws and putting their games up on their websites heh heh... Like Christie Marx.

[TheReturnofDMD]

As its been, I've been typing up articles in King's Quest Omnipedia almost word for word from the book. Just a minor additions from different sources. My little way to give people a taste of teh books .

On a side note we have game designers breaking copyright laws and putting their games up on their websites heh heh... Like Christie Marx.

Yeah she's had her game links up for years and hasn't met any legal difficulty.
And you see a lot of Sierra games (ones that weren't released in the '06 collections) on abandonware websites for years without trouble.
I don't think Actvision really cares too much about the minute aspects of the IP like books of stuff. They might not even know. I mean the last KQ Companion edition was released in 1997.

[Haids1987]

I got mine off of Amazon for like $1.50, plus $5.00 shipping and handling.  It's in beautiful condition!

[Rider Jetfire]

You can usually find them fairly cheap if your willing to wait a little while (the price tends to go up and down) and it's very much worth every penny you spend.

[oberonqa]

Just because nothing has happened to Andy yet does not mean nothing will happen to him.  When you are dealing with someone else's material... your playing a game of russian roulette... two C&D's against TSL has shown that.  Just because your not making any money off of the end result does not make it OK.  You might argue that scanning the material falls under fair use, and you might very well be right.  But fair use is a very difficult thing to get isolated and applied, as I myself learned while working on the Save TSL Movement.

I suppose in the end though it depends on how lucky you feel.  You could scan the books and put them on a website and never hear a word about it from the copyright holder.  But that is a mighty big risk to take... as you will be opening yourself up to a heap of trouble and that trouble could come at any time.  I for one think it unwise to entertain even the possibility of trouble, regardless of how remote of a chance that trouble comes knocking on the door.  But that is just me.  

For more information, refer to the following links about Google's "Scan Every Book in the World" project and how much trouble it has gotten into for scanning copyrighted books without the permission of the copyright holders.  And for the record, keep in mind that the KQ Companion is not owned by Activision... it is owned by McGraw-Hill.

http://ezinearticles.com/?Googles-Book-Scanning-and-Copyright-Laws&id=67519
http://www.researchcopyright.com/article-copyright-google-book-scanning-program.php
http://www.researchcopyright.com/article-copyright-law-fair-use-doctrine.php
http://www.googlebooksettlement.com/

And here's some links to general info about copyright law:

http://www.macworld.com/article/14430/2000/08/copyright_laws.html
http://www.rbs2.com/copyr.htm
http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html

[Enchantermon]

Just because your not making any money off of the end result does not make it OK.

This. Also, just because others have done it and gotten away with it also does not make it okay. The whole "it's only illegal if you get caught" mindset is crap.

You might argue that scanning the material falls under fair use, and you might very well be right.  But fair use is a very difficult thing to get isolated and applied, as I myself learned while working on the Save TSL Movement

By the current definition of fair use I don't see how scanning and uploading the entire document could possibly apply, even slightly.

EDIT by oberonqa:  If your going to quote something I have written, please be sure to quote the entire statement and not a portion of it...    <oberonqa>

EDIT: Fair enough. For the record, I changed my response to better reflect what I was responding to; my stance is the same.

[I_am_so_nifty]

Well all I know is that I don't want POS getting in any legal trouble. And that's that.

[Enchantermon]

EDIT by oberonqa:  If your going to quote something I have written, please be sure to quote the entire statement and not a portion of it...    <oberonqa>

My intent was not to take your quote out of context and distort it; I was only replying to the first sentence of the two, which is why it didn't seem necessary to quote both. My apologies.

[Baggins]

Well the thing about Andy, is that some or most of those scans are actually hosted on Ken William's website, SierraGamers, . So even Ken Williams could get in trouble LOL. In the same way that Christie Marx and Al Lowe could get in trouble for hosting some of their software. It just hasn't happened yet. Infact as I recall it was Ken Williams who originally was looking for volunteers to scan the material. Andy just happened to be one of those that stepped up to do it.

As for scanning the companions and/or novels, I'd suggest just doing it anonymously, and donate the scans to Ken Williams, and let him host them like he has hosted everything else. He seems to have enough clout or balls that he doesn't mind hosting copyrighted material, he no longer owns.

And for the record, keep in mind that the KQ Companion is not owned by Activision... it is owned by McGraw-Hill.

Its a little more complicated than that. It was published by McGraw-Hill so they own the publishing rights to it, but most of the content is copyrighted to Sierra and/or Peter Spear as well. Obviously McGraw-Hill doesn't own the rights to the Sierra characters, and Sierra content or the IP.

This is pretty much the same sort of thing with Star Wars books, they are owned and/or copyrighted to both Lucas Books and companies that publish them, Ballentine et al.  But ultimately go back to the company the IPs belong to.

This. Also, just because others have done it and gotten away with it also does not make it okay. The whole "it's only illegal if you get caught" mindset is crap.

I can assure you that's was never the mindset of Christy Marx, Ken Williams, Al Lowe, and any other assorted former Sierra employees that flaunt the law by hosting there games or printed material. Nor do I think it was mind set of those who volunteered to scan them for said above people.

Their reasons for hosting the material is more along the lines since the companies that actually own the material aren't doing anything with it, they want people to have the chance to see the material they were behind. Since in many cases there aren't any 'legal' methods for obtaining the games/material for everyone who may be interested in it.

Still illegal but done for altruistic reasons.

[Enchantermon]

Its a little more complicated than that. It was published by McGraw-Hill so they own the publishing rights to it, but most of the content is copyrighted to Sierra and/or Peter Spear as well. Obviously McGraw-Hill doesn't own the rights to the Sierra characters, and Sierra content or the IP.

I'm no expert in copyright law, but if McGraw-Hill owns the publishing rights, doesn't that mean the publishing rights in any form, electronic or otherwise?

I can assure you that's was never the mindset of Christy Marx, Ken Williams, Al Lowe, and any other assorted former Sierra employees that flaunt the law by hosting there games or printed material.

I didn't say it was, however the thoughts being tossed around in this thread seemed to be going that direction.