Main Menu

Stupid things you've said or heard

Started by Deloria, July 16, 2010, 12:36:16 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

MikPal

"You're going to see Troy?"

"Yeah"

"Does it have a guy called Achilles in it?"

"Yeah, Brad Pitt plays him."

"He's the guy that dies with a spear to the heel, right?"

"Thanks for spoiling the movie!"

Haids1987

Between who and who did this conversation occur? I kind of feel sorry for both participants...
STATUS:
-Drinking water
-Checking the forum. 

Perpetually. ;D
Erica Reed is Katie Hallahan.
Leader of the "I <3 Doon" Fanclub

Deloria

To be fair, it's one of very few things the movie was even semi-accurate about, making it kind of a spoiler. :P
 
Holy Roman Empress
Queen of *all* Albion
Précieuse and salonnière! :D
"In cases of doubt about language, it is ordinarily best to consult women."-Vaugelas
Space! :D Extraterrestrium! :D Espace! :D

MikPal

Quote from: Haids1987 on May 19, 2012, 04:19:13 PM
Between who and who did this conversation occur? I kind of feel sorry for both participants...

Me and my friend. He was the one going to see the movie. I spoiled it to him by telling about a plot point from a 3000 year old story. And it was an arrow, my bad.

Maybe I should just out of being a dick, spoil to someone that the Odyssey doesn't have Geroge Clooney in it.

writerlove

I found a thread on another board about a woman dressed like a stripper. Some guys cat called her and after she shook her body, they threw money at her. (The person who wrote about it was just witnessing). People like that give women a bad name. *sigh*

"Love can't be banished, even from this place. ... still less can it be banished from my heart."
"ENOUGH! Burden me not with thy poetry."-KQ6

crayauchtin

Quote from: writerlove on June 11, 2012, 12:54:29 PM
I found a thread on another board about a woman dressed like a stripper. Some guys cat called her and after she shook her body, they threw money at her. (The person who wrote about it was just witnessing). People like that give women a bad name. *sigh*
Or you could look at it from the perspective of.... this woman wore clothes she probably felt attractive and self confident in, and people threw money at her. Which she probably kept, and therefore she made money just for wearing clothes that made her feel good.

That's bad?
"If your translation is correct, that was 'May a sleepy hippopotamus lie down on your house keys,' but you're not sure. Unfortunately, your fluency in griffin-speak is too low."

We're roleplaying in the King's Quest world: come join in the fun!

Deloria

Oh dear. XD I was wondering when slutwalks would become a topic, but this is close enough. :P

I think people should be able to dress however they like and still be treated like anyone else. :P
 
Holy Roman Empress
Queen of *all* Albion
Précieuse and salonnière! :D
"In cases of doubt about language, it is ordinarily best to consult women."-Vaugelas
Space! :D Extraterrestrium! :D Espace! :D

darthkiwi

The reason women are objectified is that men objectify them. I'm always frustrated when women who are raped are criticised for wearing revealing clothing: the reason that's often brought up against them is that they encouraged the rape.

But the reason women are raped is that *men do the raping*.

I know you were talking about a woman wearing overly revealing clothing, not being raped, but this is really all interlinked because gender issues and objectification are a really messy spectrum. But look, if this woman were living in a culture that didn't objectify women and sought to treat women as *people*, she wouldn't have the opportunity to have money thrown at her for wearing revealing clothing.
Prince of the Aquitaine. Duke of York.

Knight errant and consort to Her Grace the Empress Deloria of the Holy Roman Empire, Queene of all Albion and Princess Palatine.

writerlove

I just hate how women are objectified today. The post also said she had most of her butt showing. I didn't know if this kind of thing was allowed in discussion since try to be a family oriented board. Anyway, call me conservative but I think there's a time and place for certain types of clothing. Scantly clad clothing is not for a public shopping place. If she wants to wear that to the club, I'm not stopping them. I just think there's a line of decency for dressing. (peopleofwalmart is one of many examples how it's crossed :P)

Also, I'm not trying to imply revealing clothing leads to rape. NO ONE deserves sexual and/or physical abuse, regardless of circumstance. Sometimes unfortunately circumstances line up to a horrible event. Because we women are seen as objects, men think women can be played with and don't have standards. Newsflash: NO MEANS NO. My ex didn't get that message. He used to play with my bra under my shirt when I didn't want him to.  Even when I told him no, he still did it. Another reason we didn't work. Anyhow, I don't know what can be done to correct this assertion. Women have been treated as second class citizens for years (and still are in some places).
"Love can't be banished, even from this place. ... still less can it be banished from my heart."
"ENOUGH! Burden me not with thy poetry."-KQ6

KatieHal

Never give up. Never surrender. And never let the bastards think you'll be satisfied with anything less than equal treatment and rights. Speak out when you can against prejudices and cultural biases and beliefs that go against this, things that objectify or subjugate or victimize women. Stay aware of current issues that effect your rights.

How active you want to be in advocating women's rights is up to you, really. I'm not exactly a hugely active advocate myself, but I at least try to do things like petitions and emails and to political figures, awareness via online posting, and my general outlook and attitude. I also try not to jump in offense at absolutely anything--I know people whom I personally feel go too far in that direction as well.

Basically, my mom said once to a family friend when I was a kid, "Just because she's a girl doesn't mean she can't do everything you can." Damn right, mom. :)

Katie Hallahan
~Designer, PR Director~

"Change is the constant, the signal for rebirth, the egg of the phoenix." Christina Baldwin

I have a blog!

crayauchtin

I'm not totally sure how we got onto this level of sordidness, but since we're here...
Psychologists tend to believe that rape is NOT about sexual desire or objectification, it is about exerting power over another person. I'm sure that's not an 100% of the time thing, but it does mean that blaming society's objectification of women for it is as off target as blaming the victim. The only person at fault is the one who did it.
(Also, I'd like to point out that men can be raped, and are raped, by women and by other men. It is not a purely one-sided crime. It's less common, but it happens and the less it's talked about the less male victims feel they can report it so sweeping it aside is a bad thing always.)

Besides, having been a dancer in a few nightclubs I can tell you.... women do plenty of objectifying of men. Men do plenty of objectifying of men. You don't get as much of a sense for that in the mainstream media because, of course, straight men run everything and direct it at other straight men but that doesn't change the fact that it's there. Women are likely a lot more subtle -- I've rarely heard a girl cat call at a guy walking down the street, but it's like a daily thing to hear a girl lean over to her friend and say "Check out that piece of eye candy!" or something along those lines.

I'm not saying it's right, but I'm saying objectification of attractive people is simply a fact. And it's been a fact for a long time -- point out to me an ugly person in an ancient Greek statue. Seriously. People like pretty things -- and that includes people.
"If your translation is correct, that was 'May a sleepy hippopotamus lie down on your house keys,' but you're not sure. Unfortunately, your fluency in griffin-speak is too low."

We're roleplaying in the King's Quest world: come join in the fun!

Delling

Quote from: crayauchtin on June 11, 2012, 10:41:39 PM
Besides, having been a dancer in a few nightclubs I can tell you.... women do plenty of objectifying of men. Men do plenty of objectifying of men. You don't get as much of a sense for that in the mainstream media because, of course, straight men run everything and direct it at other straight men but that doesn't change the fact that it's there. Women are likely a lot more subtle -- I've rarely heard a girl cat call at a guy walking down the street, but it's like a daily thing to hear a girl lean over to her friend and say "Check out that piece of eye candy!" or something along those lines.

So, I was walking home from TaeKwonDo one night last year and this trashily dressed girl was on the same side of the street as me trying to call her apparently drunk friends across. As I was passing by, she slapped my butt... temptation to sidekick her into the wall was rather high, but I just kept walking instead. ::) So, it totally happens and goes both ways.

Quote from: crayauchtin on June 11, 2012, 10:41:39 PM
I'm not saying it's right, but I'm saying objectification of attractive people is simply a fact. And it's been a fact for a long time -- point out to me an ugly person in an ancient Greek statue. Seriously. People like pretty things -- and that includes people.
Greeks were really the first humanists... polytheistic humanists, who knew... so they celebrated human beings on all levels. The way this comes through in their art is a near-obsession with a "perfect" physical form consequently that would the style of sculpture that would be continued by the Romans and later emulated by the Renaissance artists. It wasn't really about objectifying people so much as celebrating certain people's accomplishments, individuals, lovers, etc.

Anyway, Vulcan/Hephaestus was regarded as quite ugly:

Do you see it? Yeah, me neither. Maybe the face a little... that nose isn't all that flattering but then neither is this angle. You couldn't expect the sculptors to change style on a dime... sculpting is hard. :yes:
Noli me tangere! Nescio ubi fuisti!
Don't touch me! I don't know where you've been!

Marquess of Pembroke
Duke of Saxony in Her Majesty's Court
Knight of the Swan for Her Imperial Highness

...resistance was obviously useless against a family that could invent italics.

"Let the locative live."

http://my.ddo.com/referral/Delling87

Rosella

Having this discussion in the "Stupid things you've said or heard" thread amuses me, but I think I'll throw in my two cents anyway.

I hate t-shirts. I never feel like I can breathe when I wear them, so I prefer to have something with an open neckline. This, combined with my, erm, sizable(?) bust really creates more skin than I'd like to show, but I'd rather be comfortable and able to breathe. There was a period of about 2 years where I only wore t-shirts because of some issues that had happened with a guy and there was one day where my roommate convinced me to dress up and go out for tea. I was wearing a dress. Not even a low-cut one, just a dress that didn't go all the way up to my neck, and a guy that ended up joining us at the cafe made a comment of "nice cleavage."

I pretty much went home and immediately changed. Later he tried to put his head on my shoulder (he kind of followed us the rest of the day) and I freaked the hell out and kind of had a mental breakdown that lasted a few days before I felt okay again. I didn't feel safe and I didn't feel comfortable and that wasn't fair.

I guess my point is that no, being attractive to guys is not really on my list of things I consider when I'm getting dressed. I'm worrying about my own comfort and maybe a desire to feel pretty (to myself), but wearing a low-cut shirt is not an invitation, and it was a huge deal when I felt comfortable enough to wear them again. I shouldn't have to change something as irrelevant as what I wear just to feel safe. Even if you're actively encouraging that kind of attention (which I don't, ever), that's not a reason to feel you're entitled to more.

And while we're on psychology, I think there are some gender stereotypes at work here. If men are supposed to have the power, then if they desire something and women say no (and they abide by that), the women are actually in control, and I think some men (who are deeply disturbed) can find that emasculating because, you know, men are in charge and get what they want. Obviously men do get raped and that's horrible and I think it gets overlooked because it's just too shocking an idea that men don't always want sex, but admitting to that is somehow emasculating as well.

Obviously you can't blame society for a person's actions (you are accountable for your own decisions), but I do think there's a sizable effect.
I'm a princess even if my kingdom is pixelated.

Official Comfort Counselor of the TSL Asylum © ;D

It's funny how you find you enjoy your life when you're happy to be alive.

koko_99_2001

Ok, not sure how much I can say about all this...I totally agree that women are not objects, that rape is on the person who did it, not who it happened to, etc. Not to minimalize anything, but I'm on vacation and have limited time to respond, so I may not go as indepth as I would like.

One problem with society these days is that a lot of women want to walk around showing as much skin as possible. And then they wonder why men treat them like trash and don't respect them. I grew up with modesty drilled into me. No shorts that are too short, no shirts that show too much cleavage. Part of it is because the moment men see some skin, their thoughts go straight to sex. It's the way they're wired. To this day, if I am wearing something that's lower than I would like, I throw on an undershirt. It covers the cleavage, but doesn't mean you have to wear something that's up to your neck. Kels, I'm with you...I'm pretty well endowed.

Plus, it drives me crazy when women wear shirts that have them hanging out, and Daisy Dukes where they've had to squeeze themselves into it. I may go shopping with Erik, and the last thing I want is for his thoughts to go where they're not supposed to. Granted, I have an amazing husband and he tries to look elsewhere...or we've had times where he's turned to me to try to keep from looking at the people passing us. He's even told me that he hates it when women wear things that revealing because it does make it hard on any man...especially married ones!

Back to how I wear clothes really quickly before I have to go. I have this very cute Grecian type drape neck dress I wore a few days ago. Mom DaCosta absolutely loved it. I wore it to breakfast and was sitting next to Erik and his 18 year old brother. As I'm eating, I feel like I'm having to pull the shoulders back, as I felt like anyone could see down the shirt as I was eating. Quick fix: I ran upstairs after breakfast, threw on the undershirt, and came back downstairs. then I didn't have to worry about anyone looking at "the girls" throughout the day. I love to dress up and look pretty...but the only person I want looking at me in any type of sexual way is my husband.

Sorry if any of this feels disjointed...but just my thoughts. :)
<3 Happily married to FataliOmega since July 11, 2009 <3

The Unofficial The Silver Lining Official Sarcasm Cleaner Upper :cat:

Catherine DaCosta

Delling

#94
Quote from: Rosella on June 12, 2012, 04:40:20 AM
Having this discussion in the "Stupid things you've said or heard" thread amuses me, but I think I'll throw in my two cents anyway.
Actually, given some of the common misconceptions and gender stereotypes being trotted out... it's pretty fitting. XD

Quote from: Rosella on June 12, 2012, 04:40:20 AM
There was a period of about 2 years where I only wore t-shirts because of some issues that had happened with a guy and there was one day where my roommate convinced me to dress up and go out for tea. I was wearing a dress. Not even a low-cut one, just a dress that didn't go all the way up to my neck, and a guy that ended up joining us at the cafe made a comment of "nice cleavage."

I pretty much went home and immediately changed. Later he tried to put his head on my shoulder (he kind of followed us the rest of the day) and I freaked the hell out and kind of had a mental breakdown that lasted a few days before I felt okay again. I didn't feel safe and I didn't feel comfortable and that wasn't fair.
See, sounds like those two deserved some side-kicks into or over nearest vertical objects. :P But... no, honestly, that's pervy and if someone was hanging around me making me uncomfortable, I would let them have it, first with words and then with everything at my disposal... but I generally imagine the "I'm going to give you a Reason You Suck speech, possibly in 7 languages, and then I'm not going to give you the silent treatment--because that actually disempowers me--oh, no--I'm going to give you the 'speaks only in languages you don't know'  and/or 'never again acknowledge your existence' treatment" will generally get people to leave or behave... and if not, I have Capoeira and TaeKwonDo now. :P And, yes, I am genuinely saying that when you feel physically invaded, you can physically defend yourself. Period.

Quote from: koko_99_2001 on June 12, 2012, 05:39:49 AM
Part of it is because the moment men see some skin, their thoughts go straight to sex. It's the way they're wired.
Not even true.

I'm a bit of an authority on this... seeing as I am one. Unless my being bi somehow invalidates my physical gender... though it didn't the last time I checked. :P

Quote from: koko_99_2001 on June 12, 2012, 05:39:49 AM
Plus, it drives me crazy when women wear shirts that have them hanging out, and Daisy Dukes where they've had to squeeze themselves into it. I may go shopping with Erik, and the last thing I want is for his thoughts to go where they're not supposed to. Granted, I have an amazing husband and he tries to look elsewhere...or we've had times where he's turned to me to try to keep from looking at the people passing us. He's even told me that he hates it when women wear things that revealing because it does make it hard on any man...especially married ones!
Why is it that Christianity will preach self-control--to the extent that the Catholic Church teaches that homosexuals should be so self-controlled as to live a life of celibacy--yet it will entertain these biases about what it means to be male? Fine. If Christianity WANTS to assume that all men are pigs who can only ever think about sex ::), that's fine--but the logical conclusion of this from Christianity's OWN MORAL CODES is that MEN SHOULD CONTROL THEMSELVES.

Quote from: koko_99_2001 on June 12, 2012, 05:39:49 AM
Back to how I wear clothes really quickly before I have to go. I have this very cute Grecian type drape neck dress I wore a few days ago. Mom DaCosta absolutely loved it. I wore it to breakfast and was sitting next to Erik and his 18 year old brother. As I'm eating, I feel like I'm having to pull the shoulders back, as I felt like anyone could see down the shirt as I was eating. Quick fix: I ran upstairs after breakfast, threw on the undershirt, and came back downstairs. then I didn't have to worry about anyone looking at "the girls" throughout the day. I love to dress up and look pretty...but the only person I want looking at me in any type of sexual way is my husband.

You know, this is fair, but it sounds like you are too insecure to demand respect and to demand not to be sexualized by those around you when you say something like "that's just the way men are"--no, it's not. That's male privilege. Please, stop giving it to them. ::) You do yourself AND your brother-in-law a HUGE disservice when you assume that he can't see you in a non-sexual way. In fact, I have been in his position to the extent that people (in the cases in mind, adults when I was a kid) have voiced these views toward me: I was justifiably offended that someone would think such things of me that 1) weren't true and 2) were even within their own arguments as they presented them wholly baseless.

Quote from: Rosella on June 12, 2012, 04:40:20 AM
And while we're on psychology, I think there are some gender stereotypes at work here. If men are supposed to have the power, ...
This is the basic assumption of male privilege.

Quote from: Rosella on June 12, 2012, 04:40:20 AM
then if they desire something and women say no (and they abide by that), the women are actually in control, and I think some men (who are deeply disturbed) can find that emasculating because, you know, men are in charge and get what they want. Obviously men do get raped and that's horrible and I think it gets overlooked because it's just too shocking an idea that men don't always want sex, but admitting to that is somehow emasculating as well.
You really highlighted something that I hadn't thought of before: rather than maleness or femaleness being defined biologically or genetically or physically (ie- on appearance of certain features but not on the deeper basis of genes and function), societal stereotypes define gender PRAXIOLOGICALLY (ie- by a set of behaviors)--guys are guys because they behave like guys and girls are girls because they behave like girls, but I think if anyone is open-minded and observant even in as simple and sterilized a setting as grade school, we could all see that this falls apart.

So, when guys reject this over-sexualized mask and women assume power over their own physical and sexual lives, MEIN GOTT!, they break out of these rigidly defined, silly little models and become more real as people. That is probably something we should all be interested in--being people and individuals rather than fitting roles.
Noli me tangere! Nescio ubi fuisti!
Don't touch me! I don't know where you've been!

Marquess of Pembroke
Duke of Saxony in Her Majesty's Court
Knight of the Swan for Her Imperial Highness

...resistance was obviously useless against a family that could invent italics.

"Let the locative live."

http://my.ddo.com/referral/Delling87

KatieHal

High-fives, my fellow curvy ladies :)

I think Cat's story was less about what the males at the table might see and more about her comfort level. I get it--I feel that way in some clothing as well. And I know my friends & family aren't going to ogle me, and maybe what I'm wearing isn't even all that low-cut or revealing and intellectually I know that, but if *I'm* not comfortable in it, that's about me, not them.

It's one thing to, in your own head or with friends I think, remark that you find a person attractive. "He's hot," "I wouldn't kick her outta bed for eating crackers," etc--stuff that's done in fun and not taken seriously. No one should expect that because they find someone else attractive, it gives them any rights or that person or reasons for expectations from that person. No one's style of dress or appearance means they are "just asking for" anything.

Kelsey, that guy's behavior was totally out of line. To make that kind of remark aloud to you is incredibly rude, and to try and, well, 'put moves' on you...while I want to believe okay, maybe it was flirting that went awry or he somehow misinterpreted signals from you, his earlier comment really makes me wonder if he wasn't just kind of an ass in general.

I've thankfully never had to deal with sexual harassment or aggressive behavior towards me because I'm female, but if it ever did happen--well, I'm glad I've got six and a half years of jiu jitsu and am nearly a black belt should I ever find myself in a position where I need to defend myself!

Katie Hallahan
~Designer, PR Director~

"Change is the constant, the signal for rebirth, the egg of the phoenix." Christina Baldwin

I have a blog!

crayauchtin

Delling -- firstly, stop being so awesome.
Second, any fool can see that Vulcan/Hephaesto's BIGGEST problem is that he was not using the right conditioner. Look at that hair! There is far too much volumizing going on. What what what are you doing?!

To an extent, I believe Cat's right -- men are biologically wired to think more about sex than women. Why? Well, speaking from an evolutionary standpoint, the main (biological) goal of any animal -- including humans -- is to pass on their DNA. Women can only do so much of that -- they only have one womb and can only be pregnant once at a time (that is to say, if they're pregnant already, they can't have a second pregnancy start on top of it -- excepting in the case of identical twins, and they don't need a man for that they need a freak accident of nature). Men, on the other hand, have to do one thing, and the more they do it the greater the chance that their DNA will make it to the next generation.
This is, of course, the very basest of human instincts -- and, the great thing about being human instead of -- for instance -- a bee, is that we are all able to overcome our most animalistic tendencies and behave in a way we choose.

The problem -- as Delling pointed out -- is that men are not typically expected to desexualize themselves in any way. In fact, while straight men may not endure the objectification based on appearance that women and gay men do they're objectified in their own way -- if they're not able to "perform", if they're not as well endowed... these are considered the greatest failures. When a guy tells someone to "grow a pair" or to "man up", yes, it's incredibly sexist against women -- but it's also incredibly sexist against men. They suggest that the only way to be worth anything as a man is to be fertile.
So, really, we're surprised that men or overly sexual? I'm not. We're offended? Good, we should be. It's offensive. To everyone.

I'm certainly not excusing guys who cross the line, as that guy did with you Kelsey. But it makes it all the more important that when something like that happens, you put him in his place. By whatever means. There's a real good chance he's never had the line pointed out to him -- he could be a complete perv, and it would make no difference and he should be avoided at all costs. Or he could have no concept of what's acceptable.

And as Delling pointed -- and as I, as a man, can attest as well -- it's certainly possible NOT to be such an overly sexual being. It's a bit sad, but probably our orientations DO help with that, because we're not as solidly in the straight-man's mainstream culture, which is saturated with the objectification of women and of over-valuing of male fertility.
That said, we should ALL be taking charge of our own bodies and sexualities. The girl in the scantily clad clothes knew what she was getting into -- she shook her body when she started getting attention, it was clearly what she was after. There's nothing wrong with that.
Nor is there anything wrong with wearing less revealing clothes because they make you feel more comfortable.

There IS something wrong with making excuses -- as real as they may be -- for a man to behave like a perv. If it happens, confront him. Say something. It's the only way to change something like that for even one person -- and it SHOULD be changed.
"If your translation is correct, that was 'May a sleepy hippopotamus lie down on your house keys,' but you're not sure. Unfortunately, your fluency in griffin-speak is too low."

We're roleplaying in the King's Quest world: come join in the fun!

DawsonJ

#97
Quote from: writerlove on June 11, 2012, 09:53:39 PM
... Anyway, call me conservative but I think there's a time and place for certain types of clothing. Scantly clad clothing is not for a public shopping place. If she wants to wear that to the club, I'm not stopping them. I just think there's a line of decency for dressing. ...
THIS.

As a straight man, I see women wearing things that blow my mind *in the worst way* in public.  Honestly, when I see a woman with her rear end hanging out of her pants or wearing "Juicy" pants, or whatever, my respect level for her drops quickly.  I don't see her as a "sexual being" of sorts, but as an undesirable person.  I've had a lot of modesty talks with women, girls, men, and boys over the years.  One thing that I'm often told by females is that "It's hard to find clothing that isn't too low-cut or revealing." I understand that it can be difficult, but a cami (?) makes for a good undershirt, which adds a level of modesty (as previously mentioned).  I know many who consider themselves to be modest, but ... *sigh* seem to have lost the meaning of the word.  When a person has an open neckline and leans over, others can see down their shirt because the shirt falls open - an obvious occurrence, though not understood by many. >:(  A friend of mine in her mid-50s said "It's like many women are missing a gene..." because they don't seem to realize how much they show off.  Some like attention, which is their choice, but don't show off everything and call yourself "modest." (Comment not aimed at anyone here.)

Men walk around showing off their underwear (pants dropped jail-style) or wearing transparent shirts - both of which also make my respect level for a person drop quickly. "Modesty" is losing its meaning the way "Awesome," "Unique" and "Literally" have in common culture - one person's modest is another's embarrassment.  People need to think about the kind of message they're giving off.  For example, where I'm from, the lower-back tattoo means "EASY" - as clearly as a flashing restaurant sign.  It's a common stereotype, so it should be noted by those have such a tattoo as a warning to cover it (if they're not in that state of mind).

A person's manner of dress is their right (or, problem)... But NOTHING gives an excuse for rape.  If someone is being a "tease" by showing everything off on a regular basis then openly rejecting people's "Come-ons," they're being a jerk.  That's their problem - NOT an excuse for rape.  I'm related to a number of rape and molestation victims, so I've got a semi-insider's view of the victim's life afterward. I tell you... if you ever think of committing rape, go to a theater with a rape victim to see an abusive or overly-emotional movie and watch the flashbacks kick in.  You'll NEVER go through with your selfish plans.  PERIOD.  (I recommend Titanic, if you can find it at a dollar cinema somewhere; I know of some people who've had flashbacks or other horribly painful memories come back on them because of the female lead's abusive boyfriend or drowned babies floating in the water scenes.)


*A side note: I'll never understand why women who worry about the appearance of their behind wear thong underwear - it makes the rear look even bigger... and has to be hygenically perilous.

Deloria

Personally, I don't care about modesty and to me the term even has negative connotations because I now associate it with Quiverfull and bikini hate. ::) And what someone wears doesn't make me lose respect for them (what usually does that is how they speak, because, you know, snob ::)).

I think a lot of the self-image issues stem from having to adhere to a set of spoken or unspoken rules about how people should dress and I can only see these rules as harmful. People have rights to their bodies and should be able to call whatever kind of attention they want to receive to themselves without having to worry about being judged. In China the opposite is thought: If you dye your hair a certain colour or do something drastic and (to many) unseemly to it, you will be told that your image belongs to other people because they have to look at you, whereas you cannot see yourself, so you shouldn't do anything that might or could upset them.
 
Holy Roman Empress
Queen of *all* Albion
Précieuse and salonnière! :D
"In cases of doubt about language, it is ordinarily best to consult women."-Vaugelas
Space! :D Extraterrestrium! :D Espace! :D

Delling

Quote from: Deloria on June 13, 2012, 05:12:51 AM
...In China the opposite is thought: If you dye your hair a certain colour or do something drastic and (to many) unseemly to it, you will be told that your image belongs to other people because they have to look at you, whereas you cannot see yourself, so you shouldn't do anything that might or could upset them.

This is really true about Chinese culture and to a slightly lesser extent Eastern/Orient cultures in general (though that Westernization of Japan seems to be goin' pretty well :P). Supposedly, Oriental cultures are better at that whole insulating and supporting thing which the West praises highly and claims to be good at but is only truly good at where it is HIGHLY functional (places which are few and far between). Though... I don't know how true that really is about Eastern culture having not lived in it much (the flipside of this is that there is a sense that you belong to your family and the culture in general), but it is built into the Chinese language and mannerisms (much of Chinese etiquette is about saving face for others).
Noli me tangere! Nescio ubi fuisti!
Don't touch me! I don't know where you've been!

Marquess of Pembroke
Duke of Saxony in Her Majesty's Court
Knight of the Swan for Her Imperial Highness

...resistance was obviously useless against a family that could invent italics.

"Let the locative live."

http://my.ddo.com/referral/Delling87