Author Topic: "The Coin"...  (Read 10880 times)

Offline sahara

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Re: "The Coin"...
« Reply #20 on: July 19, 2010, 06:58:50 AM »
I can see what you're getting at, but isn't object placement always a little bit random in most adventure games? I've always thought that the chain of "get object > use object > get new object > repeat" can seem a little arbitrary at times, compared to, say, a novel where every object that is picked up is probably relevant to the plot, themes and characterisation.

Yes, object placement is random in lots of adventure games, but it doesn't have to be.  Think of DOTT and the ingenious way the game has you manipulative and find objects, for example.  The clever puzzles are a big part of why that is one of the best adventure games of all time.  Still, I think random placement can be alright and still make for a fun game, as long as the puzzles are logical.  However, my problem here is that the coin is involved in essentially what is the only puzzle in the whole episode.  When you combine that with the fact that the coin's location seems to be random, I'm left wondering if puzzle gameplay was low on the priority list for the TSL designers.  When you only have one puzzle to write, you might want to make sure it is a good one.  However, I understand that Episode 1 is unique and is more of an introduction, so we'll have to wait and see.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2010, 07:30:20 AM by sahara »

Offline wilco64256

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Re: "The Coin"...
« Reply #21 on: July 19, 2010, 08:06:22 AM »
Except the placement isn't totally random, if you look at the coin prior to picking it up you get a bit of explanation from Graham as to how it got there.
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Offline sahara

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Re: "The Coin"...
« Reply #22 on: July 19, 2010, 08:18:44 AM »
What was the explanation?  I didn't look first.  I just saw something that looked like it needed the hand icon, so away I clicked!

Offline wilco64256

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Re: "The Coin"...
« Reply #23 on: July 19, 2010, 08:25:36 AM »
That he found it in his pocket while getting ready for bed and had it out there, then just left it in that bowl or whatever it is.
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Offline sahara

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Re: "The Coin"...
« Reply #24 on: July 19, 2010, 08:47:11 AM »
I see.  Well, that's fine.  I'm glad they took the time to explain that.  

One thing that it reminds me of, though, is a bit of a pattern I have noticed in some of the narration descriptions and character dialogue.  Sometimes it seems like the narration and dialogue is used to cleverly explain something that is either seemingly illogical or that prevents the player from exploring an area he might be inclined to explore.  For example, there is only one guard at the front door of the castle.  The dog guard goes through a lengthy explanation of why he is the only one there, but I had the impression that there was only one guard there due to game design limitations, and that the designers decided to explain away this illogical situation with some dialogue.  Also, the room under renovation comes to mind... we are given a somewhat long explanation for why Graham can't go through the doors, but it feels more like the designers never created the room and just used a quick and easy clever explanation to limit where Graham could explore.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2010, 08:49:09 AM by sahara »

Offline KatieHal

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Re: "The Coin"...
« Reply #25 on: July 19, 2010, 08:54:54 AM »
Well, things like the number of doors in the Castle are established facts (in this case, from KQ6). We did our best to work within was already established--and a room under renovation is a better reason than "Nothing in there is relevant to Graham's quest, so we didn't design it," no? :)

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Offline wilco64256

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Re: "The Coin"...
« Reply #26 on: July 19, 2010, 09:07:07 AM »
I prefer some random and interesting dialogue giving an explanation as to why you can't go somewhere over a red X coming up.
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Offline sahara

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Re: "The Coin"...
« Reply #27 on: July 19, 2010, 09:20:10 AM »
Yeah, and as a player I appreciate the thought behind the explanations.  However, sometimes it can come across as a little too obvious.  Maybe just, "the door is locked" would suffice, and the player wouldn't know whether there would be something behind that door later in the game or not.  It adds a little mystery.

Offline wilco64256

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Re: "The Coin"...
« Reply #28 on: July 19, 2010, 09:31:11 AM »
Then I'd spend the rest of the game looking for either a key or lockpicks.  That might get annoying.
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Offline beernutts

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Re: "The Coin"...
« Reply #29 on: July 21, 2010, 07:59:48 AM »
Then I'd spend the rest of the game looking for either a key or lockpicks.  That might get annoying.

Kinda like the box near the blacksmith supplies that asks, how can that be open?  And, there's an Axe right next to it....

(Posted on: July 21, 2010, 09:57:41 AM)


Welcome back, Beernuts! It's been a while since I've seen you around these parts.

Blame it on Yonkey, he revoked my privileges of posting a while back, and I had to get another moderator to remove it a few days ago.

Yes, I know Say is gone, but I figured, after all the time and "effort" she put into this, she would have made an appearance when the 1st official release is completed.

Offline KatieHal

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Re: "The Coin"...
« Reply #30 on: July 21, 2010, 08:03:27 AM »
Let's not get started over on the wrong foot. Say did do a lot of great work for us when she was a part of the team, but she hasn't been for some time now. If she wants to drop in to say hi again, that's up to her, and if not, that's also up to her.

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Offline beernutts

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Re: "The Coin"...
« Reply #31 on: July 21, 2010, 08:07:05 AM »
How did I miss a post by everyone's favourite pessimist?  Say left nearly three years back; in fact, your last post before this one was you posting in her farewell thread!  But at least with the release of the first episode, you seem to have toned down.  Well done!

I was actually going to say, but B'rrr covered it already, that the coin is comparable to the shiny objects on the beach on the Isle of the Crown; you don't see it right off, but then you see a small glint.  It's definitely not the first King's Quest to do so.

As for the loading times, they're really quite quick on my laptop; it may just be a case of turning the quality/resolution down a bit to get it to load a bit quicker.

Yes, but back in those days a "glint" was really noticeable (only having 256 colors makes any such animations pretty obvious).  These days, with the awesome graphics capabilities, the "glow" of the coin, along with the rain particles already in motion, made it not-as-obvious.

And, aren't adventure games beyond using a "sparkle" to notice objects?  Shouldn't things stand out on their own merits?

Just my thought.

Offline wilco64256

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Re: "The Coin"...
« Reply #32 on: July 21, 2010, 09:06:54 AM »
Personally I typically find coins by seeing the light reflect off of them, so it doesn't seem particularly odd to me to have the coin sparkle or glow.  Now if I found a flower because it was sparkling that might be a different story.
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Offline kindofdoon

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Re: "The Coin"...
« Reply #33 on: July 28, 2010, 08:14:21 AM »
Yes, but back in those days a "glint" was really noticeable (only having 256 colors makes any such animations pretty obvious).  These days, with the awesome graphics capabilities, the "glow" of the coin, along with the rain particles already in motion, made it not-as-obvious.

That's exactly right, imho.

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Offline kyranthia

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Re: "The Coin"...
« Reply #34 on: August 14, 2010, 09:50:23 PM »
I just thought to look everywhere and happened to find it.  I spent more time than needed looking in vases that were scattered about the scenery, but I was thinking of in the previous games, that's how you sometimes found things.

Offline B'rrr

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Re: "The Coin"...
« Reply #35 on: August 14, 2010, 10:08:55 PM »
Yes, but back in those days a "glint" was really noticeable (only having 256 colors makes any such animations pretty obvious).  These days, with the awesome graphics capabilities, the "glow" of the coin, along with the rain particles already in motion, made it not-as-obvious.

Coin should not glint or sparkle at all when it is raining and the sun behind the clouds *nod*nod*
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Offline waltzdancing

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Re: "The Coin"...
« Reply #36 on: August 15, 2010, 12:15:14 AM »
Or was it the rain drops bouncing off making it look weird? I haven't played episode 1 in a while so I don't really remember what it looks like.

Offline kindofdoon

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Re: "The Coin"...
« Reply #37 on: August 15, 2010, 03:01:12 AM »
When I went back and looked again, I saw that it was more obvious than I originally thought. I thought for the longest time that I had to somehow open one of the chests in Graham's room.

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Offline erenoth2002

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Re: "The Coin"...
« Reply #38 on: September 09, 2010, 03:56:17 PM »
Now theres a memory, Alot of parents seem to not want their kids on the computer or gaming system and I can agree with that to some degree, however those who grew up in adventure games can all remember the development in that, i remember back in the day when i was young and unobservant missing so many crutial points and items, but experience has taught me to watch everything like a hawk, I think adventure gaming has let alot of us to think twice about things develop or logical minds and become much more observant of our surrondings, i had no problem with the coin seeing as how i learned the hard way to become observant and not miss a thing, having to restart your favorite game alot really puts it to you that you should investigate every possible angle even in the real world.

Offline Jujuba

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Re: "The Coin"...
« Reply #39 on: September 18, 2010, 12:07:00 PM »
I found the coin the first time, but I was wondering... Who put a Daventry coin in that balcony?
 

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