Author Topic: Over Hyping TSL  (Read 25747 times)

TheReturnofDMD

  • Guest
Over Hyping TSL
« on: July 17, 2010, 12:57:23 PM »
I agree with the review. After all the years of super hyping this game, long before there was little more than screenshots--this game got more publicity probably than any fan game ever, and more publicity than any Sierra fan game ever--Long before a demo was even released. You hyped this game more than any fan groups which had actually given results.

And this game helped bring Activision (then Vivendi's) attention on the Sierra fan community to the point where it is dead now, because after POS hyper promoted this game as a quasi-real sequel to Sierra's games, they've decided that other fan groups (such as AGDI) cannot make any more Sierra related fan games. Once this game is out, the Sierra community is dead--and I believe it's largely because of the 'spit in Vivendi's face' publicity style this team did for this game.

And after all the years of waiting, and broken promises (Remember "Winter 2005"?), and massive hype you deliver pretty much an incredibly short, interactive movie (more a movie than Phantas was) that lasts under ten minutes of actual game playing if you just play-through the gamen without staring or looking at everything --After nearly a decade of waiting and hyping this game to every source possible like it was the Second Coming.

4 years ago you released a demo which is essentially the same as what you've just released, with only a few more cut-scenes added--No other puzzles or gameplay, the demo was essentially Chapter 1. From 2005-2010 (between the two shutdowns) you had five years to work on the game, and instead you obviously worked on 'Corridor 9' and started to trim more and more off of TSL--

I remember when you guys told us you had a "Big Announcement"--And you had everyone hyped up and excited for it, never once letting on what the announcement was, acting as if all was normal, or even better than normal--And it came that the announcement was essentially that unless you got money, all chapters except 1 & 2 were cancelled. You led people on believing for weeks that some huge, great announcement was coming, and than dropped the hammer on us all. You claimed you had made the decision to cut off 3-10 months before and in all that time acted as if all was well.

And finally...Frankly, I supported this game for years..But I don't like the direction it's taken. The tone is way too somber, the characters and atmosphere way too dark. Was King's Quest dark at times? Yes. But nothing like this. This isn't the pseudo-tension of KQ6--The game's tone, dialogue, and characterizations are all very angst ridden and melodramatic--Like a soap opera more than a simple fairy tale.
What you've done here, to make an analogy, is what the Nolan films did to the Batman franchise--Turned it into a gritty and twisted version of what it originally was. At least Nolan could argue that the Batman source material was dark and gritty--You guys can't.

 You've turned a game series that was one of the most light hearted, cheesy and adorable series ever to grace a computer screen into a dark angst ridden game wherein everything is depressing, everything is melodramatic. I mean for example Graham wanting to rip the plants down because they remind him of his current situation--That sounds more the feelings of an overly emotional (emo) teenage girl than the Graham we saw in any other KQ game, or even in the King's Quest Companion.

You've essentially tried to make King's Quest meet a Final Fantasy game, even down to Alexander's appearence. From what we've seen from the different character stuff over the years, you've no sense of who these characters are. For example, Rosella selfish? Rosella who risked her life for her father and helped out restless spirits and enriched a poor Fisherman and his family for no other reason than to be kind and help? She's selfish?

I'll just conclude this by ending my review of the game with an utterly ironic quote made by a 'Kimmie' in the May 2005 Birthday Chat:

[16:08] <Kimmie> are u not all glad that the game will be out soon and not 2009
[16:08] <Kimmie> lol

Offline wilco64256

  • Moderator
  • Omnipotent Being
  • *****
  • Posts: 3978
  • Gender: Male
Over Hyping TSL
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2010, 01:10:37 PM »
Without going into a huge amount of detail I'll just disagree with pretty much everything you've said.  Your opinion of this entire game is based on what probably amounts to less than a tenth of the whole product.  I could pull just as much darkness and angst out of some part of any King's Quest game (Alexander knowing he's doomed to die in KQ3, Graham's family being stolen away in KQ5, Alexander's journey to the Land of the Dead in 6, etc.).

As far as hype is concerned, the vast majority of that came from fans watching the project rather than from the team themselves.  And they're making a free game, if you're doing something for free then you need people to be interested.  I'm not aware of any other fan project that was shut down by two different companies and still managed to survive.

Saying the fan-based community is now dead is just plain false.  There are still other fan-based projects out there that could be continuing to grow but those groups have let their own projects die - they weren't stopped by C&D's.

I enjoyed episode one of this game, I too would have liked for it to be longer but am thrilled to see all the support for the team that's come about just because they finally have something out there - it's just the spark they needed to really get rolling on finishing off the other episodes.  I'm really looking forward to the rest of the game and anything else Phoenix puts out afterwards.
Weldon Hathaway

Offline dark-daventry

  • Moderator
  • Phoenix Groupie
  • *****
  • Posts: 5229
  • Gender: Male
  • Nothing is true, everything is permitted
Over Hyping TSL
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2010, 01:21:28 PM »
May I also say, that it's been stated time and time again that episode 2 is much better. DMD, I would wait if I were you until episode 2 is out to see how that fares. I'm just a little disappointed that everyone jumps to conclusions on this first of five episodes. They see how short this one is and then automatically assume the worst. Maybe first impressions are wrong. Maybe the game actually IS good. I intend to stick around to find out. It saddens me a great deal to see how quickly people assume all is lost. They never once seem to think of a light at the end of the tunnel...
Founder of the (new) Left Handed Alliance Of Left Handed People (LHALHP)

Gay and proud of it!

Avid Adventure Game fan

Offline I_am_so_nifty

  • Royal Heir
  • ****
  • Posts: 404
  • Gender: Male
Over Hyping TSL
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2010, 01:26:58 PM »
And this game helped bring Activision (then Vivendi's) attention on the Sierra fan community to the point where it is dead now, because after POS hyper promoted this game as a quasi-real sequel to Sierra's games, they've decided that other fan groups (such as AGDI) cannot make any more Sierra related fan games. Once this game is out, the Sierra community is dead--and I believe it's largely because of the 'spit in Vivendi's face' publicity style this team did for this game.

Really? I thought a King's Quest: Kingdom of Sorrow game was in the making?

And finally...Frankly, I supported this game for years..But I don't like the direction it's taken. The tone is way too somber, the characters and atmosphere way too dark. Was King's Quest dark at times? Yes. But nothing like this. This isn't the pseudo-tension of KQ6--The game's tone, dialogue, and characterizations are all very angst ridden and melodramatic--Like a soap opera more than a simple fairy tale.
What you've done here, to make an analogy, is what the Nolan films did to the Batman franchise--Turned it into a gritty and twisted version of what it originally was. At least Nolan could argue that the Batman source material was dark and gritty--You guys can't.

 You've turned a game series that was one of the most light hearted, cheesy and adorable series ever to grace a computer screen into a dark angst ridden game wherein everything is depressing, everything is melodramatic. I mean for example Graham wanting to rip the plants down because they remind him of his current situation--That sounds more the feelings of an overly emotional (emo) teenage girl than the Graham we saw in any other KQ game, or even in the King's Quest Companion.

As for the dark tone, that has been the intention all along. Though, on a positive note for you, someone on the team did state that Episode 2 should be quite lighthearted.

From what we've seen from the different character stuff over the years, you've no sense of who these characters are. For example, Rosella selfish? Rosella who risked her life for her father and helped out restless spirits and enriched a poor Fisherman and his family for no other reason than to be kind and help? She's selfish?

Well, she did only want to have fun and go on adventures rather than respect her parents wishes and settle down, but I suppose that is her choice to make. In any case, exploring things about Rosella that may not be so picture perfect (e.g., what makes her "selfish") might give her character more depth. No character is black or white.

And, if I recall, the "Selfish Princess about to Lose Everything" was stated on a wallpaper. Could anybody bring that up and see if it was a KQIX one or a TSL one?

And after all the years of waiting, and broken promises (Remember "Winter 2005"?)

...

[16:08] <Kimmie> are u not all glad that the game will be out soon and not 2009
[16:08] <Kimmie> lol

Okay, so this might actually be a good point. They were quite... optimistic about release dates. But, hey, it happens.
This is Nifty, Royal Heir.

I'm like, an adult now or something? Sounds fake, but okay.

Offline dark-daventry

  • Moderator
  • Phoenix Groupie
  • *****
  • Posts: 5229
  • Gender: Male
  • Nothing is true, everything is permitted
Over Hyping TSL
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2010, 01:30:28 PM »
And this game helped bring Activision (then Vivendi's) attention on the Sierra fan community to the point where it is dead now, because after POS hyper promoted this game as a quasi-real sequel to Sierra's games, they've decided that other fan groups (such as AGDI) cannot make any more Sierra related fan games. Once this game is out, the Sierra community is dead--and I believe it's largely because of the 'spit in Vivendi's face' publicity style this team did for this game.

Really? I thought a King's Quest: Kingdom of Sorrow game was in the making?

And finally...Frankly, I supported this game for years..But I don't like the direction it's taken. The tone is way too somber, the characters and atmosphere way too dark. Was King's Quest dark at times? Yes. But nothing like this. This isn't the pseudo-tension of KQ6--The game's tone, dialogue, and characterizations are all very angst ridden and melodramatic--Like a soap opera more than a simple fairy tale.
What you've done here, to make an analogy, is what the Nolan films did to the Batman franchise--Turned it into a gritty and twisted version of what it originally was. At least Nolan could argue that the Batman source material was dark and gritty--You guys can't.

 You've turned a game series that was one of the most light hearted, cheesy and adorable series ever to grace a computer screen into a dark angst ridden game wherein everything is depressing, everything is melodramatic. I mean for example Graham wanting to rip the plants down because they remind him of his current situation--That sounds more the feelings of an overly emotional (emo) teenage girl than the Graham we saw in any other KQ game, or even in the King's Quest Companion.

As for the dark tone, that has been the intention all along. Though, on a positive note for you, someone on the team did state that Episode 2 should be quite lighthearted.

From what we've seen from the different character stuff over the years, you've no sense of who these characters are. For example, Rosella selfish? Rosella who risked her life for her father and helped out restless spirits and enriched a poor Fisherman and his family for no other reason than to be kind and help? She's selfish?

Well, she did only want to have fun and go on adventures rather than respect her parents wishes and settle down, but I suppose that is her choice to make. In any case, exploring things about Rosella that may not be so picture perfect (e.g., what makes her "selfish") might give her character more depth. No character is black or white.

And, if I recall, the "Selfish Princess about to Lose Everything" was stated on a wallpaper. Could anybody bring that up and see if it was a KQIX one or a TSL one?

And after all the years of waiting, and broken promises (Remember "Winter 2005"?)

...

[16:08] <Kimmie> are u not all glad that the game will be out soon and not 2009
[16:08] <Kimmie> lol

Okay, so this might actually be a good point. They were quite... optimistic about release dates. But, hey, it happens.

It was a pre vivendi cease and desist wallpaper, if I recall. I am pretty sure it was back when it was known as KQIX. A lot has changed to the game since then. I just wish everyone would wait for episode 2 to see how that fairs. Everyone is just so quick to judge, and it really makes me sad.
Founder of the (new) Left Handed Alliance Of Left Handed People (LHALHP)

Gay and proud of it!

Avid Adventure Game fan

TheReturnofDMD

  • Guest
Over Hyping TSL
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2010, 01:42:11 PM »
And this game helped bring Activision (then Vivendi's) attention on the Sierra fan community to the point where it is dead now, because after POS hyper promoted this game as a quasi-real sequel to Sierra's games, they've decided that other fan groups (such as AGDI) cannot make any more Sierra related fan games. Once this game is out, the Sierra community is dead--and I believe it's largely because of the 'spit in Vivendi's face' publicity style this team did for this game.

Really? I thought a King's Quest: Kingdom of Sorrow game was in the making?

And finally...Frankly, I supported this game for years..But I don't like the direction it's taken. The tone is way too somber, the characters and atmosphere way too dark. Was King's Quest dark at times? Yes. But nothing like this. This isn't the pseudo-tension of KQ6--The game's tone, dialogue, and characterizations are all very angst ridden and melodramatic--Like a soap opera more than a simple fairy tale.
What you've done here, to make an analogy, is what the Nolan films did to the Batman franchise--Turned it into a gritty and twisted version of what it originally was. At least Nolan could argue that the Batman source material was dark and gritty--You guys can't.

 You've turned a game series that was one of the most light hearted, cheesy and adorable series ever to grace a computer screen into a dark angst ridden game wherein everything is depressing, everything is melodramatic. I mean for example Graham wanting to rip the plants down because they remind him of his current situation--That sounds more the feelings of an overly emotional (emo) teenage girl than the Graham we saw in any other KQ game, or even in the King's Quest Companion.

As for the dark tone, that has been the intention all along. Though, on a positive note for you, someone on the team did state that Episode 2 should be quite lighthearted.

From what we've seen from the different character stuff over the years, you've no sense of who these characters are. For example, Rosella selfish? Rosella who risked her life for her father and helped out restless spirits and enriched a poor Fisherman and his family for no other reason than to be kind and help? She's selfish?

Well, she did only want to have fun and go on adventures rather than respect her parents wishes and settle down, but I suppose that is her choice to make. In any case, exploring things about Rosella that may not be so picture perfect (e.g., what makes her "selfish") might give her character more depth. No character is black or white.

And, if I recall, the "Selfish Princess about to Lose Everything" was stated on a wallpaper. Could anybody bring that up and see if it was a KQIX one or a TSL one?

And after all the years of waiting, and broken promises (Remember "Winter 2005"?)

...

[16:08] <Kimmie> are u not all glad that the game will be out soon and not 2009
[16:08] <Kimmie> lol

Okay, so this might actually be a good point. They were quite... optimistic about release dates. But, hey, it happens.

1) I don't believe IA has talked to Activision or brought them into it, regarding KoS, I could be wrong. Someone mentioned the possibility of a C&D and they in essence said they didn't even want to think about about that happening. Erpy (of ADGI) has said Activision has told them they are not to make any further Sierra inspird games--So why would Activision say anything different to any other fan group? The new policy as I heard it was that games that are currently in development would be ''grandfathered in''and allowed to finish but no new Sierra/KQ inspired games can be brought into development.

2) It may have been the intention to make the game darker--and yes, you're right, we were told it was to be made more ''mature''--But not that it would have so bleak or angsty a tone as it does. It's way too ''emo'' I gues would be the term. It doesn't play like a Fairy Tale but more like a Hot Topic version of King's Quest, if you get the analogy.

3) Wanting to have fun isn't the same thing as being an innately selfish person. Remember that in KQ7, in the past year or two Rosella had been nearly sacrificed to a dragon, had her father nearly die and endure all sorts of horrors to save his life, been kidnapped along with the rest of her family by an evil Wizard who intended to feed her and her family to a cat, and watched her brother sail off to find a princess and not return for months, with the family believing him to be dead. I can understand her wanting to have a little fun and not be pushed into marriage after that.

And as I said, from what we've seen of her character in KQ4 and KQ7, nothing reeks of selfishness--She didn't have to save Etheria in KQ7, but she did. I believe her character has enough depth. Remember, KQ was essentially supposed to be a mish-mash of fairy tales and myths creating something original and fairy tales aren't exactly known for their emotional or character depth. Why does every character have to have a ten page long back story or psychological profile?

What happened to just having fun? What happened to simplicity?


4) Being overly optimistic is one thing, and it's forgivable. We're all guilty of being overly optimistic about something about some point--It's understandable.
But purposely misleading fans on multiple occasions with regard to release dates and the content of ''big'' announcements, etc is another.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2010, 01:44:06 PM by TheReturnofDMD »

Offline wilco64256

  • Moderator
  • Omnipotent Being
  • *****
  • Posts: 3978
  • Gender: Male
Over Hyping TSL
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2010, 01:47:07 PM »
Nobody ever misled fans deliberately here.  Take away both of the C&D's and this game would have been done quite a long time ago.

And what do you expect from a game that begins with both of Graham's children coming under the influence of a terrible curse?  It wouldn't make sense for everyone to be lighthearted and joking around under circumstances like those.  Give the second episode a shot and see if you still feel the same way.
Weldon Hathaway

Offline dark-daventry

  • Moderator
  • Phoenix Groupie
  • *****
  • Posts: 5229
  • Gender: Male
  • Nothing is true, everything is permitted
Over Hyping TSL
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2010, 01:49:10 PM »
Alright, this topic is getting derailed fast. This is meant as a discussion of the Kotaku review. If you wish to post your own thoughts on the game, please do so in the fan feedback forum. In fact, I'm going to go ahead and split the topic now.

EDIT: And it's been split. This thread can be used to continue this discussion.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2010, 01:52:02 PM by dark-daventry »
Founder of the (new) Left Handed Alliance Of Left Handed People (LHALHP)

Gay and proud of it!

Avid Adventure Game fan

Offline Fierce Deity

  • Powerful Wizard
  • ******
  • Posts: 1506
  • Gender: Male
over hyping tsl
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2010, 01:52:49 PM »
It's nice to see all of the fans post a thread expressing how much they liked Episode 1, but although I played Episode 1 to its full extent, searched every nook and cranny and refused to leave a stone unturned, I'm saving my real response to the series for when Episode 2 comes out. I enjoyed Episode 1, but I'm looking at it for exactly what it is: an introduction for what's to come.

At least the short episode of the series is the first episode and not the last. Tales of Monkey Island was getting good til Episode 5. Then it crashed and burned in one fell swoop.   
Freudian Slip - "When you say one thing, but mean your mother."

TheReturnofDMD

  • Guest
over hyping tsl
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2010, 01:54:04 PM »
Nobody ever misled fans deliberately here.  Take away both of the C&D's and this game would have been done quite a long time ago.

And what do you expect from a game that begins with both of Graham's children coming under the influence of a terrible curse?  It wouldn't make sense for everyone to be lighthearted and joking around under circumstances like those.  Give the second episode a shot and see if you still feel the same way.

''Winter 2005'', ''Big Announcement coming'', so maybe not ''misleading'', but not giving the ''whole truth''?

And there is no way to know that. The C&D in each case only lasted several months--If I recall correctly the first C&D was given in August or September 2005 and lifted on November 29th, 2005. From there forward, the team had 4 years (November 2005-February 2010) to do something, and the next year (I believe in March 2006) they released the demo which is only again but a few screens longer than what we finally got as "Episode I", and we've seen screenshots from parts of the game past Episode I before (for example, the screenshot of Graham with Beauty and Cocteau in his castle, or the video of Cocteau screaming by a fountain, that obviously comes from a later episode as does the shots of Graham bowing to Beauty)

All of these screenshots, which show presumably later parts of the game, were available as early as May 2005. The videos of Shadrack by the road of the Tower and Valanice being dragged up to it came out in late 2005-early 2006 as part of the "Making of" video and look the same in the "Making of" video which they sent Vivendi and gave us as they do now, five years later in the official trailer.

« Last Edit: July 17, 2010, 01:59:16 PM by TheReturnofDMD »

Offline I_am_so_nifty

  • Royal Heir
  • ****
  • Posts: 404
  • Gender: Male
Re: Over Hyping TSL
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2010, 02:07:43 PM »
Well, we have no way of knowing exactly in what order the material was produced. The parts of the game that those particular screenshots showed could have been some of the earliest material completed.

A lot of time was presumably also spent with fixing errors and beta testing. The TSL team has said many times that this was all a learning process for them. Truthfully, I don't think any of us who didn't work on it have any idea how difficult it is to make a game--especially for no pay.

Erpy (of ADGI) has said Activision has told them they are not to make any further Sierra inspird games

Could you possibly link to me to his post about that? I think I missed it.
This is Nifty, Royal Heir.

I'm like, an adult now or something? Sounds fake, but okay.

TheReturnofDMD

  • Guest
Re: Over Hyping TSL
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2010, 02:21:51 PM »
Well, we have no way of knowing exactly in what order the material was produced. The parts of the game that those particular screenshots showed could have been some of the earliest material completed.

A lot of time was presumably also spent with fixing errors and beta testing. The TSL team has said many times that this was all a learning process for them. Truthfully, I don't think any of us who didn't work on it have any idea how difficult it is to make a game--especially for no pay.

Erpy (of ADGI) has said Activision has told them they are not to make any further Sierra inspird games

Could you possibly link to me to his post about that? I think I missed it.

http://www.bigbluecup.com/yabb/index.php?topic=41402.0

"It's both (legal worries and lack of resources), actually. Activision did say we could finish what we started, but couldn't start anything new. But even if we were allowed to start any new remakes, I don't think we would since we're no longer the college-students-with-too-much-free-time we were 10 years ago."

Bolded= Added by me for the context of his answer to the preceding statement. Emphasis added by me.

Offline Erpy

  • Devoted Knight
  • ***
  • Posts: 170
  • Gender: Male
    • http://www.agdinteractive.com
Re: Over Hyping TSL
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2010, 03:13:03 PM »
Just a couple of corrections to your post.

Actually, Activision's statement towards AGDI is not related to TSL in any way. They made that statement way back in 2008 and it's simply Activision's position, not inspired by any fangame related event. And as stated, AGDI wasn't gonna start any new remake projects anyway, that decision was made in 2005 already. Also, it wasn't TSL's premature promotional campaign back in 2005 that brought the project to Vivendi's presence...they already knew about the project. (they told us so back in 2004) The campaign with a "release date" being announced merely set them off.

So no, the decline of the Sierra fan-game community has nothing to do with TSL's promotion tactics. Nothing at all. The Sierra generation simply got older and had less time on its hands, people saw 90% of all fangames fail and die so eventually less new fangames were announced as idealism and optimism turned into realism or cynicism.

You can go on about how the 2005 campaign was premature (it was), but its effects weren't nearly as grand as you're making them out to be.

Offline wilco64256

  • Moderator
  • Omnipotent Being
  • *****
  • Posts: 3978
  • Gender: Male
Re: Over Hyping TSL
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2010, 03:16:05 PM »
Yes but Activision also told TSL to stop work at one point.  Just because they said not to make any new ones doesn't mean it'll never happen no matter what, as evidenced by the survival of TSL itself.  Erpy even makes it quite clear in the same part the you copied and pasted that they didn't plan to make any new games anyway.  Absolutely nothing there to even remotely substantiate your claim that TSL has brought about the death of the Fan-based game community.

Speak of the devil, there's Erpy himself clarifying his own remarks.
Weldon Hathaway

Offline oberonqa

  • Great Oracle
  • *****
  • Posts: 631
  • Gender: Male
  • Go now and claim your destiny....
Re: over hyping tsl
« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2010, 03:22:15 PM »
It's nice to see all of the fans post a thread expressing how much they liked Episode 1, but although I played Episode 1 to its full extent, searched every nook and cranny and refused to leave a stone unturned, I'm saving my real response to the series for when Episode 2 comes out. I enjoyed Episode 1, but I'm looking at it for exactly what it is: an introduction for what's to come.

At least the short episode of the series is the first episode and not the last. Tales of Monkey Island was getting good til Episode 5. Then it crashed and burned in one fell swoop.   

I'm quoting this because I want you to read it.  And I want you to understand it.  Your passing judgement on the entire 5-episode set based on one episode because it's short and lacks gameplay.  Your assuming the other 4 episodes are going to be exactly the same and let me tell you... they aren't.  

Why don't you take a note out of the above quote and wait until Episode 2 before passing judgement on the entire 5-episode set.  Episode 2 is really where the game takes off and if, after playing Episode 2, you feel the same way as you feel right now, then that's fine... as then you will know exactly how the remaining episodes will play.  Episode 1 is nothing more than an introduction and isn't meant to be all-inclusive.  It does exactly what it was intended to do, and that is to introduce you to the world and setup what is to come in the remaining episodes.

And yes... Episode 2 is much more lighthearted than Episode 1... there is a lot of whimsy and fun to be had in Episode 2 and it's not something that your going to complete in 10 minutes.  Even in it's current form (which is 90% complete), it would still take you a good 2-3 hours to get through the episode.  And that time estimate does not include any cutscenes I might add.

So reserve your judgements on the entire 5-episode set until you play Episode 2.
 
Chronicling the history of Sierra through the conversion of it's premiere magazine into an easy-to-use, searchable wiki format.

TheReturnofDMD

  • Guest
Re: Over Hyping TSL
« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2010, 03:26:08 PM »
Just a couple of corrections to your post.

Actually, Activision's statement towards AGDI is not related to TSL in any way. They made that statement way back in 2008 and it's simply Activision's position, not inspired by any fangame related event. And as stated, AGDI wasn't gonna start any new remake projects anyway, that decision was made in 2005 already. Also, it wasn't TSL's premature promotional campaign back in 2005 that brought the project to Vivendi's presence...they already knew about the project. (they told us so back in 2004) The campaign with a "release date" being announced merely set them off.

So no, the decline of the Sierra fan-game community has nothing to do with TSL's promotion tactics. Nothing at all. The Sierra generation simply got older and had less time on its hands, people saw 90% of all fangames fail and die so eventually less new fangames were announced as idealism and optimism turned into realism or cynicism.

You can go on about how the 2005 campaign was premature (it was), but its effects weren't nearly as grand as you're making them out to be.



Does the edict ''No new Sierra based games'' go just for you guys, or for any fan group?
Cause if it's for everyone, that is a really, really cruel move by Activision.

Offline dark-daventry

  • Moderator
  • Phoenix Groupie
  • *****
  • Posts: 5229
  • Gender: Male
  • Nothing is true, everything is permitted
Re: Over Hyping TSL
« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2010, 03:30:20 PM »
It's nice to see all of the fans post a thread expressing how much they liked Episode 1, but although I played Episode 1 to its full extent, searched every nook and cranny and refused to leave a stone unturned, I'm saving my real response to the series for when Episode 2 comes out. I enjoyed Episode 1, but I'm looking at it for exactly what it is: an introduction for what's to come.

At least the short episode of the series is the first episode and not the last. Tales of Monkey Island was getting good til Episode 5. Then it crashed and burned in one fell swoop.  

I'm quoting this because I want you to read it.  And I want you to understand it.  Your passing judgement on the entire 5-episode set based on one episode because it's short and lacks gameplay.  Your assuming the other 4 episodes are going to be exactly the same and let me tell you... they aren't.  

Why don't you take a note out of the above quote and wait until Episode 2 before passing judgement on the entire 5-episode set.  Episode 2 is really where the game takes off and if, after playing Episode 2, you feel the same way as you feel right now, then that's fine... as then you will know exactly how the remaining episodes will play.  Episode 1 is nothing more than an introduction and isn't meant to be all-inclusive.  It does exactly what it was intended to do, and that is to introduce you to the world and setup what is to come in the remaining episodes.

And yes... Episode 2 is much more lighthearted than Episode 1... there is a lot of whimsy and fun to be had in Episode 2 and it's not something that your going to complete in 10 minutes.  Even in it's current form (which is 90% complete), it would still take you a good 2-3 hours to get through the episode.  And that time estimate does not include any cutscenes I might add.

So reserve your judgements on the entire 5-episode set until you play Episode 2.

I've been trying to get that exact point across for some time now. Everyone is judging the whole (unreleased) game on the introductory episode. Why can't everyone wait until episode 2 to pass a full judgement? You have no idea how the rest of the episodes play out, and yet you judge them as if you did.

Just a couple of corrections to your post.

Actually, Activision's statement towards AGDI is not related to TSL in any way. They made that statement way back in 2008 and it's simply Activision's position, not inspired by any fangame related event. And as stated, AGDI wasn't gonna start any new remake projects anyway, that decision was made in 2005 already. Also, it wasn't TSL's premature promotional campaign back in 2005 that brought the project to Vivendi's presence...they already knew about the project. (they told us so back in 2004) The campaign with a "release date" being announced merely set them off.

So no, the decline of the Sierra fan-game community has nothing to do with TSL's promotion tactics. Nothing at all. The Sierra generation simply got older and had less time on its hands, people saw 90% of all fangames fail and die so eventually less new fangames were announced as idealism and optimism turned into realism or cynicism.

You can go on about how the 2005 campaign was premature (it was), but its effects weren't nearly as grand as you're making them out to be.



Does the edict ''No new Sierra based games'' go just for you guys, or for any fan group?
Cause if it's for everyone, that is a really, really cruel move by Activision.

That's something I don't know. I assume Cesar has the answer to that question. Maybe Oberonqa does too, idk. I haven't been informed on the details of the agreement myself unfortunately.
Founder of the (new) Left Handed Alliance Of Left Handed People (LHALHP)

Gay and proud of it!

Avid Adventure Game fan

Offline wilco64256

  • Moderator
  • Omnipotent Being
  • *****
  • Posts: 3978
  • Gender: Male
Re: Over Hyping TSL
« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2010, 03:32:33 PM »
Activision owns the Sierra IP, so it would apply to any and all fan groups.  And it's not cruel, they have both the right and the duty to protect what is theirs.  If you bought an entire video game production company and with it came to the rights to a specific franchise it'd be terrible business to not stop all fan work based on that franchise while you determined what you wanted to do with it.
Weldon Hathaway

Offline MusicallyInspired

  • Powerful Wizard
  • ******
  • Posts: 955
  • Gender: Male
    • BrandonBlume.com - Freelance Music Services
Re: Over Hyping TSL
« Reply #18 on: July 17, 2010, 03:40:50 PM »
The deal with AGDI has nothing to do with any other fangame group. It's specific to AGDI. Just as the deal with POS is specific to them. There isn't one big grand fangame license agreement out there that everyone has to adhere to. If Activision ever came to IA and gave them a C&D they would. But as it is there is no agreement with Activision and IA so they are continuing to do what they do without garnering attention.

Offline I_am_so_nifty

  • Royal Heir
  • ****
  • Posts: 404
  • Gender: Male
Re: over hyping tsl
« Reply #19 on: July 17, 2010, 03:43:27 PM »
And yes... Episode 2 is much more lighthearted than Episode 1... there is a lot of whimsy and fun to be had in Episode 2 and it's not something that your going to complete in 10 minutes.  Even in it's current form (which is 90% complete), it would still take you a good 2-3 hours to get through the episode.  And that time estimate does not include any cutscenes I might add.

This is totally unrelated, but that's exciting news.
This is Nifty, Royal Heir.

I'm like, an adult now or something? Sounds fake, but okay.