Author Topic: Over Hyping TSL  (Read 25736 times)

Offline Fierce Deity

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Re: over hyping tsl
« Reply #20 on: July 17, 2010, 03:53:30 PM »
It's nice to see all of the fans post a thread expressing how much they liked Episode 1, but although I played Episode 1 to its full extent, searched every nook and cranny and refused to leave a stone unturned, I'm saving my real response to the series for when Episode 2 comes out. I enjoyed Episode 1, but I'm looking at it for exactly what it is: an introduction for what's to come.

At least the short episode of the series is the first episode and not the last. Tales of Monkey Island was getting good til Episode 5. Then it crashed and burned in one fell swoop.   

I'm quoting this because I want you to read it.  And I want you to understand it.  Your passing judgement on the entire 5-episode set based on one episode because it's short and lacks gameplay.  Your assuming the other 4 episodes are going to be exactly the same and let me tell you... they aren't.  

Why don't you take a note out of the above quote and wait until Episode 2 before passing judgement on the entire 5-episode set.  Episode 2 is really where the game takes off and if, after playing Episode 2, you feel the same way as you feel right now, then that's fine... as then you will know exactly how the remaining episodes will play.  Episode 1 is nothing more than an introduction and isn't meant to be all-inclusive.  It does exactly what it was intended to do, and that is to introduce you to the world and setup what is to come in the remaining episodes.

And yes... Episode 2 is much more lighthearted than Episode 1... there is a lot of whimsy and fun to be had in Episode 2 and it's not something that your going to complete in 10 minutes.  Even in it's current form (which is 90% complete), it would still take you a good 2-3 hours to get through the episode.  And that time estimate does not include any cutscenes I might add.

So reserve your judgements on the entire 5-episode set until you play Episode 2.

That post might seem out of context because it was in reference to the prior thread about Kotaku's review, but because of its placement in DMD's rant, it got moved over to this thread. But regardless, I'm glad the post could illustrate the reality of the situation. Would a movie critic watch the opening credits of a movie then walk out of the theater talking about how short the movie was? He wouldn't be a very good critic if he did. So it would only be fair that if a gamer plays the first episode and begins to talk negatively about the entire game, that he should also admit that he is not a very good gamer.  
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Offline oberonqa

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Re: over hyping tsl
« Reply #21 on: July 17, 2010, 04:23:47 PM »
And yes... Episode 2 is much more lighthearted than Episode 1... there is a lot of whimsy and fun to be had in Episode 2 and it's not something that your going to complete in 10 minutes.  Even in it's current form (which is 90% complete), it would still take you a good 2-3 hours to get through the episode.  And that time estimate does not include any cutscenes I might add.

This is totally unrelated, but that's exciting news.

You haven't been following the interviews my friend.  Cesar himself has been saying that in interviews for the last couple of weeks.  :)
 
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Offline I_am_so_nifty

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Re: Over Hyping TSL
« Reply #22 on: July 17, 2010, 05:12:06 PM »
All the interviews kind of blended into "Yay, it's out!" after a while.

Guess I should pay more attention.
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Offline Fierce Deity

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Re: Over Hyping TSL
« Reply #23 on: July 17, 2010, 06:14:09 PM »
Episode 2 sounds like it's going to be a blast. Even if it has more gameplay, I hope it doesn't hold back on the storyline though. The last cutscene of Episode 1 got me speculating on what's going to happen.   
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Offline Deloria

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Re: over hyping tsl
« Reply #24 on: July 17, 2010, 07:15:59 PM »
Nobody ever misled fans deliberately here.  Take away both of the C&D's and this game would have been done quite a long time ago.

And what do you expect from a game that begins with both of Graham's children coming under the influence of a terrible curse?  It wouldn't make sense for everyone to be lighthearted and joking around under circumstances like those.  Give the second episode a shot and see if you still feel the same way.

''Winter 2005'', ''Big Announcement coming'', so maybe not ''misleading'', but not giving the ''whole truth''?
I recall Yonkey saying that "The journey begins this Winter" was meant to be the release of the demo, not the game. The demo then had to be sent to Vivendi, which took several months and tested, which took a few more, so we ultimately got it about six months later than intended. It doesn't explain anything else, but I felt that needed to be corrected.
 
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Re: Over Hyping TSL
« Reply #25 on: July 17, 2010, 07:24:05 PM »
We were definitely overly optimistic about how much we had left to do at the time. There's no denying that fact. However, we've made a lot of changes in the game since, even in the portion that comprised the demo/most of Chapter 1. We've added a lot of cameras to make things more cinematic, improved graphics, added/lengthened narrations based on fan feedback at the time (with varying degrees of success it would seem, heh), etc. If you look at old videos of the demo, you can see how much improved these areas have become since then.

DMD, I'm sorry you feel that way. I also hope you see the game through to Episode 2 at the least, because there is a lot more gameplay, things do get brighter (literally, the lighting is brighter!), and there's more gameplay going on. In Episode 1 we intentionally created a somber mood--Graham's children have been attacked, they're essentially comatose in the aftermath, there's a big rainstorm going on, it's a downer kind of day!

We did intentionally decide to mature the storyline, however. There's no denying that, either. We hope people will enjoy it, we did try to keep the essence of KQ, but we wanted to push the envelope and take it a step further. If that's not your cup of tea, there's not much I can say to change your mind, but again, I do hope you at least play Episode 2 as well and give more of the game a chance.

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Re: Over Hyping TSL
« Reply #26 on: July 17, 2010, 07:28:22 PM »
We were definitely overly optimistic about how much we had left to do at the time. There's no denying that fact. However, we've made a lot of changes in the game since, even in the portion that comprised the demo/most of Chapter 1. We've added a lot of cameras to make things more cinematic, improved graphics, added/lengthened narrations based on fan feedback at the time (with varying degrees of success it would seem, heh), etc. If you look at old videos of the demo, you can see how much improved these areas have become since then.

DMD, I'm sorry you feel that way. I also hope you see the game through to Episode 2 at the least, because there is a lot more gameplay, things do get brighter (literally, the lighting is brighter!), and there's more gameplay going on. In Episode 1 we intentionally created a somber mood--Graham's children have been attacked, they're essentially comatose in the aftermath, there's a big rainstorm going on, it's a downer kind of day!

We did intentionally decide to mature the storyline, however. There's no denying that, either. We hope people will enjoy it, we did try to keep the essence of KQ, but we wanted to push the envelope and take it a step further. If that's not your cup of tea, there's not much I can say to change your mind, but again, I do hope you at least play Episode 2 as well and give more of the game a chance.

I will take yours and others suggestions and play through Episode 2; I was intending to anyway, however I did feel the need to voice long held in complaints and feelings. I do hope Episode 2 is as good as you and others are saying and will definitely play it.

Offline Peacockin

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Re: Over Hyping TSL
« Reply #27 on: July 17, 2010, 10:37:46 PM »
I just want to make a quick note slightly in defense of DMD's (and others') point of view on the whole "short/interactive movie" complaint.  Now, after having read through a LOT of the forum topics relating to Episode 1, I understand that it was meant to be an introduction.  This is perfectly fine.  It's a beautiful introduction and well done, whether or not you think the narrator rambles too much or the mood is too dark (though there are kind of a lot of grammatically awkward lines, but that's getting off-topic). So anyways, the fact that Episode 1 is more intro than actual game is fine and actually kind of a nice idea.  However, this was not clear (at least to me) before I downloaded and played the game.  Granted, I haven't been to these forums in years and I didn't read many interviews about the game prior to its release, but I've received the newsletter for years (via a different account - I had trouble with the password reminder tool so I just gave up and made a new one) and I played the demo and that sort of thing.  So if the Episode-1-is-just-an-introduction concept was discussed somewhere, I clearly missed it, and I would bet that many other KQ fans who are not hanging on POS' every word probably did too.  Therefore, I have to say that I'm not a huge fan of the whole defensive attitude some of these comments take regarding the completely legitimate disappointment many of us felt when the episode was over and we'd collected a grand total of 3 items and used 2 in a very straightforward way.  Had players been prepared for this ahead of time and been clearly informed that it was just a short intro, you'd be having a lot less complaining going on.  My personal feeling is that when something is billed as an "episode", it's a segment of the game that is likely to be self-contained, but certainly has actual gameplay and puzzle-solving and significant progression (think Half-Life 2: Episodes 1 and 2). As I read somewhere else, it's kind of more accurate to call this a "prologue".  So please accept that it is perfectly reasonable for people to have had greater expectations and subsequently be disappointed.  It's also kind of silly to say "How can people be complaining about how bad the game is when they've only played the first part?? Save your judgment until you've played more of the game!!"  Quite frankly, that's what happens when you release games in episodes.  It's like a TV show. Your pilot has to set up the show's plot and characters and everything, but it also has to stand on its own and be enjoyable for viewers, or the show won't get good ratings.  People cannot count on the promise of future episodes when they are judging the quality of a TV series or a game, and while I understand that you want people to reserve judgment until they've played the whole thing...that just isn't how the world generally works.  I mean, these forums have a feedback section for the game so far! People have to operate based on the evidence at hand, and if you want their feedback, you have to accept that and work within the constraints of releasing games in episodic form.  There's a reason people talk about first impressions being crucial - it's because they are, and it's no less true for games.

So to sum up: People were not sufficiently made aware ahead of time that this was merely an intro rather than a really playable section of the game. This led to disappointment, which means these people got a poor first impression from the game, and so they are inclined to complain.  This is completely reasonable. So please, go ahead and keep telling everyone to calm down, that it's just an intro and it'll get more exciting in the next episode - but also understand that this is a legitimate complaint and use it constructively when it comes time to publicize things in the future.  It pretty much just comes down to some miscommunication. 

Anyways, just so you know - I do like this intro so far.  I was really disappointed at first when I played through, but I am very relieved to know that things will pick up in Episode 2. The game looks great, I am mostly very happy with the voice acting, I love the music....I just can't believe that this was done by fans for free in their spare time. Thank you so much to everyone for working so hard on this.  I do apologize if this comment came across as a**hole-ish or lecturing or ungrateful anything like that - I just honestly want people to understand why this critique keeps popping up. (Also, very sincere apologies for the lengthiness of this comment!)

Offline Fierce Deity

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Re: Over Hyping TSL
« Reply #28 on: July 17, 2010, 11:15:01 PM »
Peacockin, your argument is sound, but it isn't true for everybody. I for instance, am an exception to your rule. I was following The Silver Lining project for years. I played the demo, followed the newsletter, attended the chatroom, etc. I was a fan by a textbook definition. However, I fell out of the loop awhile back when the cease and desists flooded the media streams and I lost hope in this project succeeding. I didn't come back to this forum until the day of the episode's release. I downloaded the episode, installed it on my computer, and began to sit down for what the episode had to offer. Coming out of the first episode, while most people decided to rant and rave about how short the game was, I was simply blown away by the last cutscene. There's a prophecy, two factions (one being the Black Cloaks obviously, and another group that I'm assuming are Silver Cloaks), Alexander and Rosella are comatose, Shadrack has something up his sleeve cause he's an evil genius. Even though the episode is short, I got more out of that episode than I was expecting. I love the story. Gameplay is important, but if it doesn't have a story, then it's not King's Quest.

But like I said, I'm an exception to the rule. I can understand why people were upset, but if I was able to appreciate what the episode had to offer and I followed the same conditions as all of those who are bitter, then I seriously can't see why those who are bitter can't just let go of their disappointment.

I also wouldn't compare an episode from TSL to Half-Life 2: Episode 1. Half-Life 2: Episode 1 was a full blown game, Episode 1 for TSL is 1/5 of a game. I would compare it to Tales of Monkey Island if anything. And Tales of Monkey Island had some short episodes that lacked gameplay. Episode 5 was probably the worst because it was anti-climactic. I also wouldn't compare it to an episode from a TV show, cause each episode on a TV show can be a standalone experience, while once again, this episode is 1/5 of a game. I made an analogy up top about a movie critic watching 1/5 of a movie and then critiquing it. This is an analogy that I'm going to stand by, because I find it to be as accurate as it gets.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and saying that Episode 1 is short is an understandable statement. I'm not defending Episode 1 from those statements. I'm defending the entire game from the people that are saying, "I waited 10 years for this piece of crap?" or "TSL was over hyped". Understanding what Episode 1 was (an introduction) would have prepared the fans for what they were getting into, but they are now lashing out at the entire project. Which is why I am now trying to educate those who are misinformed. As long as you are willing to give Episode 2 a chance (thus having played 2/5 of the game), then I at least feel like the project is being given its fair due.   
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Offline Centaur444

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Re: Over Hyping TSL
« Reply #29 on: July 17, 2010, 11:32:30 PM »
I have to agree word-for-word with what Peacockin said.

I had previously made a couple of comments about episode 1, but I couldn't quite put into the right words or state so eloquently about just why I felt the way I did.  And it was also hard to explain why those feelings were indeed legitimate.  Peacockin explained why those feelings were legitimate.  It really came down to a lack of communication.  Things were not communicated to the TSL community and semi-casual followers about just what episode one was.

Not only was this lack of communication an error, but it was a pretty bad error to release this episode as it was.  The first episode was supposed to make a good first impression and also serve as a template for what downloaders can expect from a Phoenix Online Studios offering and more specifically a Silver Lining episode.  It didn't have to be a cookie-cutter template for each episode, but as a first impression, episode one should have given the player an idea of what to expect from TSL.  Like Peacockin said, gameplay, puzzle-solving, and significant progression should have occurred in this first episode.  It did not occur.

Now, it is not the end of the world that this happened.  We are all aware that the later episodes will be longer and will have some more gameplay, and I look forward to downloading them.  But a couple things kinda tamp down the potential future excitement of the later episodes.  One is that Episode 1 is the baseline, so it's really gotta jump up hard and fast.  I'm hoping that can be accomplished, but I'm not so sure it can.  The game is 90% complete and pretty much locked in, I'd say, as far as game-playing elements are concerned.  While we have been told that the later episodes have more of these elements, given past history of communication, I begin to wonder a little bit.... There was just something about playing episode 1 that gave me kind of a weird feeling that tells me I won't enjoy this as much as I'd hoped when I started following The Silver Lining way back in 2002.  I was picturing KQ6 at it's height and oodles of puzzles, and I don't think that's what we're gonna be getting.  And like I said, I realize that the later episodes will have more gameplay/puzzle elements, but the feel of episode 1 tells me that this is gonna be more story-driven and aimed at people who are really concerned about the intricacies of all these character relationships....... which is perfectly OK!  Some people love that.  It's just not my cup of tea when playing adventure games.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2010, 11:45:17 PM by Centaur444 »

Offline Peacockin

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Re: Over Hyping TSL
« Reply #30 on: July 17, 2010, 11:43:20 PM »
I agree that what I'm saying isn't true for everyone, and I'm glad you liked the game.  Upon reflection, I did too.  I'm just saying that it's understandable why some people were upset and maybe felt misled a bit as to what they should expect, and I just kind of wish these people would have their perspectives heard fairly.  But you raise an excellent point - this understanding goes both ways, and those who are upset do need to let it go if they're being rude and bitter and giving up on the game entirely.  That said, there is no do-over on a fan's first experience with a game, so even after learning that it's merely an intro to bigger and better things, it can still be hard to let go of your disappointment entirely.  But on the whole, I think you're right and people do need to just chill until Episode 2. :)

Having played the game now, I also agree with your analogy of a movie.  That is more accurate as far as this game goes.  I just meant that when you talk about releasing a game in "episodes", that conjures up certain expectations in people's minds (and so I myself think of the Half Life 2 episodes), and obviously TSL is not like that.  So I think maybe some people were confused purely by the wording that the game would be released as 5 "episodes".  People like me expected some action to tide us over until the next section.  In that respect, I do stand by the TV show analogy, but I guess more as something that I think ought to be the ideal when you release games bit by bit.  Like a serial drama or something...the story doesn't have to be tied up at the end of each episode, but you get a full meal's worth of entertainment (in the case of a game, this means "gameplay" to me, though the cutscenes were lovely and it looks like the story will be nice and rich) out of each episode. :)  So that's where my personal idea of what an "episode" means conflicts with what the first episode of this game actually is, and I think maybe that's what happened with a lot of the people who haven't been so enthusiastic about the game thus far.  So I think it's okay that people felt disappointed and are expressing this, but you're absolutely right - lashing out and ranting and raving is inappropriate. Hopefully these people will come back for Episode 2!

Offline Centaur444

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Re: Over Hyping TSL
« Reply #31 on: July 17, 2010, 11:53:38 PM »
Probably more accurate to compare to the 5-episode Sam and Max or the 5 episode Tales of Monkey Island.  In which case, something approaching one quarter or perhaps even one third of just one of the episodes would have been all that was expected in terms of gameplay from a free fan-made episode.  But when even that wasn't reached, it led to wondering...

Labelling it a prologue or communicating that beforehand to all the various gaming sites would have made all the difference.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2010, 11:57:06 PM by Centaur444 »

Offline oberonqa

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Re: Over Hyping TSL
« Reply #32 on: July 17, 2010, 11:56:29 PM »
Let's play devils advocate for a moment, shall we?

Go check out this thread (which consists of 49 pages worth of posts):
http://www.postudios.com/blog/forum/index.php?topic=8394.0

Do you notice some common themes here?  There's a lot of posts from people saying POS should have just leaked the game and gotten the door open so it could never be closed.  Now isn't it possible, just possible, that Episode 1 was released as an introduction to serve this purpose?  Sure the team could have combined Episode 1 and 2 into one Episode... but that would have delayed the release even further... possibly pushing it into late 2010 or early 2011 as the two episodes would have required a great deal of work to combine into one episode.

One of the greatest critiques about TSL's delayed releases in hindsight has been the team took too long to get something released.  And yet, now that we have released something, there's a group of people that just aren't happy.  They were expecting a feast and instead they got a cheeseburger.  Now I can't say as I blame that group of people for being unhappy.... but I think most of these people are just ignorant to the fact that they got what they wanted.  The door has been opened.  The remaining episodes will be released and that is because the door has been opened.  The window of opportunity has been opened and there's nothing that can be done to stop it.  As one poster in the C&D thread put it, once TSL is leaked into the wild, it cannot be unleaked.

Ok so we didn't leak the game.  We released the first of five episodes, but the end result is still the same.  And yes Episode 1 is indeed the shortest of the five episodes.  But isn't it better to have a short episode out now rather than waiting more time and inviting further troubles that could potentially keep TSL from ever being released just so a group of people could have a longer gaming session?  

If you want a longer gaming session... wait until all 5 episodes are released, download them all at once, and then goto town.  But just remember that no one knows what the future might have had in store for TSL if the game had been delayed even further once the fan license had been secured from Activision.  The team was burned once due to thinking a fan license was a permanent affair.

Take yourself out of the boxed in world that is your perception of things and consider the larger ramifications of the situation.  Consider the angles and possibilities.  Weigh the pro's and con's.  Then come back and tell me if the team made a mistake in releasing Episode 1 as it is and whether or not they should have taken their chances and combined Episode 1 and 2 into one Episode, hoping they could get it released before Activision changed it's mind and revoked the fan license.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2010, 02:10:55 PM by oberonqa »
 
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Offline Fierce Deity

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Re: Over Hyping TSL
« Reply #33 on: July 18, 2010, 12:10:04 AM »
Alright, I see what you mean about the episodes, Peacockin.

It's just Telltale games (Sam and Max, Monkey Island, etc.) have been making 3D point-and-click adventure games for awhile, and they've recently been splitting every one of their games into 5 episodes. So when I found out about Phoenix Online's decision to split up TSL into 5 episodes, I instantly acknowledged their intentions. But I can agree that the lack of communication can harm the team's ideals. Hopefully, people will stick around for one more episode. One thing I'm hoping for personally is playing as some of the other characters. Graham is cool and all, but I want to play as Alexander, or even Edgar.    
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Offline Centaur444

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Re: Over Hyping TSL
« Reply #34 on: July 18, 2010, 12:15:29 AM »
I think it would have been worth the gamble that Activision would not change its mind and revoke the fan license.  What was communicated to us a few weeks ago regarding the agreement seemed pretty solid, and I just don't think that they (as evil as they can be) would revoke it by year's end.  It just seemed like too short of a time between announcement of an agreement with Activision and then the release.  After 8 years of waiting and reading about TSL, I think most, including me, were perfectly willing to wait a few more months (even year's end) to play TSL, secure in the knowledge that a somewhat/kinda/sorta solid agreement had been reached with Activision.  This time, we were aware that all aspects of the game were nearing 90%, so another half-year to a year would have been just fine.

But I do agree that there were pluses and minuses to both sides, and a decision was made.  I look forward to downloading episode 2 and the remaining eps.  Cheers.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2010, 12:43:41 AM by Centaur444 »

Offline oberonqa

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Re: Over Hyping TSL
« Reply #35 on: July 18, 2010, 12:22:25 AM »
I think it would have been worth the gamble that Activision would not change its mind and revoke the fan license.  What was communicated to us a few weeks ago regarding the agreement seemed pretty solid, and I just don't think that they (as evil as they can be) would revoke it by year's end.  It just seemed like too short of a time between announcement of an agreement with Activision and then the release.  After 8 years of waiting and reading about TSL, I think most, including me, were perfectly willing to wait a few more months (even year's end) to play TSL, secure in the knowledge that a somewhat/kinda/sorta solid agreement had been reached with Activision.  After all, this time we were aware that all aspects of the game were nearing 90%, so another half-year to a year would have been just fine.

But I do agree that there were pluses and minuses to both sides, and a decision was made.  I look forward to downloading episode 2 and the remaining eps.  Cheers.

The big thing about the fan license is it can be revoked at any time by either party for any reason.  And I think we can all agree that where Activision is concerned, it's best not to assume things.  What if Activision had ended up selling the Sierra brand and all of the Sierra IP's to another holder while the team was reworking Episode 1 and 2 into one episode?  Without anything released, it would be exceedingly easy for the new license holder to issue their own C&D and there you go... right back to square one.

That technically can still happen.... but I am sure Erpy would be the first to say (in fact I know he said this somewhere in the C&D thread I linked) that the reason why AGDI was allowed to continue distribution of KQ1VGA, KQ2VGA, and QFG2VGA is because they were already released.  Not much point in issuing a C&D on something that has already been downloaded so much and made it's way onto so many mirrors.  The door had been opened and could not be closed.

That's kinda where we are at, at least in my opinion.  Yes the fan license can be revoked at any time... but with the first episode out and making the rounds.... the door has been opened.  TSL isn't just going to disappear now.
 
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Offline Lambonius

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Re: Over Hyping TSL
« Reply #36 on: July 18, 2010, 12:28:42 AM »
I'm pretty sure the fact that Episode 1 is out wouldn't mean anything at all to Activision if they decided to revoke the license.  They would just revoke it and prevent the other episodes from being released.  And then, once that was done, if the remaining episodes "found their way" onto the internet, POS would have a lawsuit slapped on them so fast their heads would spin.  What you describe would have absolutely no bearing on that.  We'd just have the intro episode, and no resolution, and there wouldn't be anything anyone could do about it.  

Honestly, I'd be more worried about Activision seeing all the negative reviews of Episode 1 on various gaming sites and then deciding their IP wasn't being handled correctly and pulling the plug.

*Not that I want that to happen--don't get me wrong, I absolutely don't.  I want to play the rest of the game as much as the next guy!  :)  I'm just pointing out the fact that Activision can still do whatever it wants, being the corporate giant and all, and POS being the little guys.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2010, 12:33:14 AM by Lambonius »

Offline Centaur444

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Re: Over Hyping TSL
« Reply #37 on: July 18, 2010, 12:41:46 AM »
The big thing about the fan license is it can be revoked at any time by either party for any reason.  And I think we can all agree that where Activision is concerned, it's best not to assume things.  What if Activision had ended up selling the Sierra brand and all of the Sierra IP's to another holder while the team was reworking Episode 1 and 2 into one episode?  Without anything released, it would be exceedingly easy for the new license holder to issue their own C&D and there you go... right back to square one.

That technically can still happen.... but I am sure Erpy would be the first to say (in fact I know he said this somewhere in the C&D thread I linked) that the reason why AGDI was allowed to continue distribution of KQ1VGA, KQ2VGA, and QFG2VGA is because they were already released.  Not much point in issuing a C&D on something that has already been downloaded so much and made it's way onto so many mirrors.  The door had been opened and could not be closed.

That's kinda where we are at, at least in my opinion.  Yes the fan license can be revoked at any time... but with the first episode out and making the rounds.... the door has been opened.  TSL isn't just going to disappear now.
Yah, it was a tough call, oberonqa.  I do see what you are saying.  Were the shoes reversed, I probably would have leaned toward the same decision.

But again, it really is hard to explain the lack of communication to both the TSL community and the multitude of gaming websites about the nature of episode one.  It would have greatly helped tamp down expectations.  Especially since it is a first offering from a new gaming company.  I just don't understand how a group of people collectively don't realize that it probably isn't the greatest idea that after 8 years... let's ummm not adequately prepare people for episode one.  Not only should we not adequately prepare them, let's start a two-week countdown with all the ritual fanfare that came with it.  I didn't mean for those last remarks to come off as bitter.  It is just in retrospect, what happened was really bizarre.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2010, 12:48:54 AM by Centaur444 »

Offline oberonqa

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Re: Over Hyping TSL
« Reply #38 on: July 18, 2010, 12:48:37 AM »
I'm pretty sure the fact that Episode 1 is out wouldn't mean anything at all to Activision if they decided to revoke the license.  They would just revoke it and prevent the other episodes from being released.  And then, once that was done, if the remaining episodes "found their way" onto the internet, POS would have a lawsuit slapped on them so fast their heads would spin.  What you describe would have absolutely no bearing on that.  We'd just have the intro episode, and no resolution, and there wouldn't be anything anyone could do about it.  

Honestly, I'd be more worried about Activision seeing all the negative reviews of Episode 1 on various gaming sites and then deciding their IP wasn't being handled correctly and pulling the plug.

*Not that I want that to happen--don't get me wrong, I absolutely don't.  I want to play the rest of the game as much as the next guy!  :)  I'm just pointing out the fact that Activision can still do whatever it wants, being the corporate giant and all, and POS being the little guys.

And I found those quotes from Erpy over in the C&D thread.  Despite the fact that him and I argued like cats and dogs a lot in that thread, there's no denying he knows his stuff and is a great source of knowledge (yes Erpy, I'm giving you a compliment!)

http://www.postudios.com/blog/forum/index.php?topic=8394.msg277748#msg277748
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KQ1VGA was a completely different matter. The TSL-team was contacted BEFORE they got around to releasing their game. AGDI wasn't contacted until AFTER both KQ1VGA and KQ2+ were already out. (AGDI kept such a low profile with KQ1VGA that most fans didn't even know about it, I'm not certain if they even had a board a few weeks before the game came out)

There's a large difference between releasing a game based on someone's IP WITHOUT their permission and releasing it AGAINST their permission. The first one might or might not get you into trouble, the second is almost guaranteed to get ugly.

http://www.postudios.com/blog/forum/index.php?topic=8394.msg277787#msg277787
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The contract AGDI has was finalized back when Vivendi was still running things. But it remains valid until termination by one of the parties involved, even if the IP changes owners like it did with Activision. This is generally how things go with contracts...certainly you don't think that when merging with a multinational like VU Games, all legal agreements which they ever went into (thousands upon thousands with such a large company) are automatically voided and have to be manually renewed? If so, nobody would ever merge or buy companies. It'd be too much work.

http://www.postudios.com/blog/forum/index.php?topic=8394.msg274534#msg274534
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When IP changes ownership, all contracts and licenses involving the IP are automatically transferred to the new owner. If the old IP holder was actually funding the production of a project, the new IP holder can cancel it though. (and I believe Activision pulled that trick in the past) If you acquired a commercial license by purchasing it with funds from an outside source however, the license can't be revoked just like that.

And now moving on...

Yah, it was a tough call, oberonqa.  I do see what you are saying.  Were the shoes reversed, I probably would have leaned toward the same decision.

But again, it really is hard to explain the lack of communication to both the TSL community and the multitude of gaming websites about the nature of episode one.  It would have greatly helped tamp down expectations.  Especially since it is a first offering from a new gaming company.  I just don't understand how a group of people collectively don't realize that it probably isn't the greatest idea that after 8 years... let's ummm not adequately prepare people for episode one.  Not only should we not adequately prepare them, let's start a two-week countdown with all the ritual fanfare that came with it.  I didn't mean for those last remarks to come off as bitter.  It is just in retrospect, what happened was really bizarre.

I will admit there were mistakes made during the release of Episode 1.... more along the lines of choosing the lesser of two evils.  But such is the nature of things.  Given what the team was faced with, I think they made the best decision they could have made given the situation.  But that doesn't change the fact that mistakes were made.  Not earth-shattering and game-breaking mistakes... but like you said, communication could have been a little better.  

But playing devils advocate again.... what if the team had made it clear it was an introduction and was therefore a short episode?  Wouldn't that have also ended up dissuading people from downloading the episode and experiencing the game for themselves?  Would that have also sent out a very clear, albeit unspoken message that the team wasn't confident in what they had created and therefore had to resort to apologizing for it's length right from day 1?

Just some food for thought...
 
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Offline Kimmie

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Re: Over Hyping TSL
« Reply #39 on: July 18, 2010, 01:02:39 AM »
I

I'll just conclude this by ending my review of the game with an utterly ironic quote made by a 'Kimmie' in the May 2005 Birthday Chat:

[16:08] <Kimmie> are u not all glad that the game will be out soon and not 2009
[16:08] <Kimmie> lol

Oh great, now my quote has been used against me, from this day forth no words shall come out of my mouth...ooops see this is when the past come back to bite you in the bum..and hang on "a" kimmie, that makes me sound like a creature!

Saying that TSL is dark and depressing, well you can say the same for MoE. Ok if you are one of those who feel MoE wasn't a true KQ then thats you opinion, but I don't! I enjoyed MoE and I know from playing epidose one that I'm going to enjoy the rest of the series.

Episode one has plenty of humour in it, and although the opinion that the narrators comments may be too long in some parts I found it to be witty and light hearted (yes the narrator can be mean but if you are a sesitive little flower then don't play the game, or skip the narration)

Yes epidose one hasnt changed much from the demo as regards to puzzles, but the big announcement was that TSL was back in action and that the future promises release of the other episodes and I'm glad that I joined in the hype, the countdown and all that jazz. The foum is back aive again, a community has come together and healthy discussion and lots of opinions will be floating around!

Think back a few years to a piece of work that you did, if you had several years to work on it surely from todays point in time you would do things differently, tweak things! I'm sure thats the case for TSL...they want it to be good for the fans because they are fans themselves. So ok we have to wait, it's not their fault matters were taken out of their hands! I'm just glad it's all back and running again!

Wait until episode two comes out (and this time I'm not going to predict when that will be  ;)) see where the story takes you, and what the puzzles are like!
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