Over Hyping TSL

[Fierce Deity]

I can't say it really bothers me, but it does feel closer to SQ than KQ, no doubt.

Oh, if it was Space Quest, I would actually expect the game to break the fourth wall. That's part of Space Quest's charm, part of what the whole Narrator in space quest was.

I think the TSL team needs to think harder about what voice the narrator is supposed to bring.  As it stands now, the narration is too many things: expository, jokester, telling Graham's inner thoughts, self-aware narrator acknowledging the fact that it's just a game.  It's a bit of a mess.  If they were going for a darker, more serious tone, then why in the world would they include such an often nonchalant style of narration. PO should pick a voice and stick with it.  Myself, I think it would be cool and less disjointed if the narrator was Graham's own voice as he thought to himself. 

I thought having the characters' own voice as they think or identify something would be a good idea too. I don't really mind the narrator's quirks, but I just feel like this project has already taken so many steps into a modern standard, that a first-person interaction from a character would be appropriate.

[kindofdoon]

I agree with Sahara. The narrator feels all over the place and is frequently just annoying.

[crayauchtin]

The fairy tales we're talking about are Disney-ified, actually. Fairy tales, in their original forms and INCREDIBLY angst-ridden, dark and depressing. So, in that sense, TSL is even being more faithful to the original source material.

[kindofdoon]

That's a very good point. I hadn't thought of it that way.

[Baggins]

You lose points in the older KQ if you tried to take the more traditional route to the myths, fairytales, and legends, with the exception of killing Witch Dahlia, and how you Kill Dracula (about the only violence truly allowed in the earlier games). Obviously Lolotte doesn't directly follow the Wizard of Oz although she is inspired by it.

[wilco64256]

Try leading the goat to the bridge in KQ1, that's both violent and traditional, and you gain points for doing so.

[Baggins]

Well its semi traditional, as in the orignal story, the goats were brothers that tried to cross one at a time, tricking the goat into thinking the next brother would better tasting. Graham's version rather skips most of the story, and misses most of the "trickery" aspects of the story.

[TheReturnofDMD]

The fairy tales we're talking about are Disney-ified, actually. Fairy tales, in their original forms and INCREDIBLY angst-ridden, dark and depressing. So, in that sense, TSL is even being more faithful to the original source material.

I thought TSL's ''source material'' is King's Quest?

[KatieHal]

Well, those aren't our only source materials--KQ games traditionally rely on myths, fairy tales and folklore quite a bit.

[crayauchtin]

I thought TSL's ''source material'' is King's Quest?

And the source material for King's Quest....?
Weren't you arguing, basically, that this was too dark and angsty for what is, essentially, a collection of fairy tales smooshed together?

I mean, have you read the original Rapunzel, for instance?
You have this girl locked in a tower by this repulsive witch who coos over her and constantly brushes her hair. While the witch is away, a prince traveling in the woods finds the tower. Since there's no non-magical way in or out, he asks Rapunzel to allow him to climb up her hair. And, yes, in the original version, this tears some out. That's how the witch realizes that she is having daily visits from someone else -- so the witch waits in the shadows for him to come visit, blinds him and banishes him to a desert to die and then cuts Rapunzel's hair and leaves her abandoned in the woods with no experience taking care of herself.
Then, simply because even the depressing stories are meant to have happy endings, the prince and Rapunzel miraculously and inexplicably find each other, and Rapunzel's tears (which are both at happiness and the shock of seeing him all scarred, beat up, and blind -- no longer such a hottie) heal his blindness.
Gosh, doesn't that just make you feel all warm and fuzzy?

And that's not even the worst one.

[Baggins]

Well, there was Weeping Willow in KQ5, who had her heart ripped out (the heart turned to gold), and then her body turned into a tree. With the prince banished to another land. There are shades of traditional Rupunzel story there, and some of the other evil jealous witch stories.

That's actually kinda closer to the Grimms style fairy tales...

The King's Quest companion added in back some of the Snow Queen's story from the Hans Christian Anderson story into Queen Icebella backstory. She is based on said character (or similar characters in other fairy tales, Narnia?).

http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/Queen_Icebella

Also attempt to open Pandora's Box , she can follow after Pandora and release all evil things into the world (albeit it kills her).

[crayauchtin]

Well, there was Weeping Willow in KQ5, who had her heart ripped out (the heart turned to gold), and then her body turned into a tree. With the prince banished to another land. There are shades of traditional Rupunzel story there, and some of the other evil jealous witch stories.

I used Rapunzel as an example because it kiiiiind of shows up in KQ5 with the Weeping Willow -- an example of source material that is certainly *not* very happy.

The King's Quest companion added in back some of the Snow Queen's story from the Hans Christian Anderson story into Queen Icebella backstory. She is based on said character (or similar characters in other fairy tales, Narnia?).

Narnia is kind of a fairy-tale-ized version of the Bible, in actuality, taking inspiration from both. The Snow Queen/White Queen/whatever-her-name-was-I-can't-remember-right-now was inspired by the Hans Christian Anderson story as well.

Also attempt to open Pandora's Box , she can follow after Pandora and release all evil things into the world (albeit it kills her).

Technically speaking that's a myth, not a fairy tale.

[Baggins]

Well, the thing is King's Quest is hugely inspired by Fairy Tales, Myths, and Religion.

David and Goliath appears in KQ1 (mixed with Jack and the Beanstalk, a bit of Jack the Giant Killer), although you lose points for taking that route.

[crayauchtin]

Jack the Giant Killer, actually, is inspired by the Brave Little Tailor, which is in turn inspired by the Greek myth about Cadmus... so in that sense, it's kind of not really an "original fairy tale" like most of them are. Although, I'm sure you could trace most fairy tales back into mythology if you tried -- Jack the Giant Killer is just utterly blatant.

[Baggins]

I don't think any fairy tale is 'original' perse, most can be traced back to earlier legends and myth from earlier cultures. We as humans tend to recycle alot. There really are only something like few dozen story archtypes that can be told, and all stories are variations of those archetypes... :p

[crayauchtin]

Depending on who you ask, it can be narrowed down to either just one basic story archetype or as many as 36. Still, even 36 is an awfully slim number considering how many stories we have!

http://www.ipl.org/div/farq/plotFARQ.html

[Enchantermon]

I mean, have you read the original Rapunzel, for instance?
You have this girl locked in a tower by this repulsive witch who coos over her and constantly brushes her hair. While the witch is away, a prince traveling in the woods finds the tower. Since there's no non-magical way in or out, he asks Rapunzel to allow him to climb up her hair. And, yes, in the original version, this tears some out. That's how the witch realizes that she is having daily visits from someone else -- so the witch waits in the shadows for him to come visit, blinds him and banishes him to a desert to die and then cuts Rapunzel's hair and leaves her abandoned in the woods with no experience taking care of herself.
Then, simply because even the depressing stories are meant to have happy endings, the prince and Rapunzel miraculously and inexplicably find each other, and Rapunzel's tears (which are both at happiness and the shock of seeing him all scarred, beat up, and blind -- no longer such a hottie) heal his blindness.
Gosh, doesn't that just make you feel all warm and fuzzy?

Well, actually...yeah. I mean, sure, it's a tragic story, but in the end true love prevails and they live happily ever after, even after everything that happened. That does make me feel warm and fuzzy.

The Snow Queen/White Queen/whatever-her-name-was-I-can't-remember-right-now

Jadis, the White Witch.

[crayauchtin]

Well, actually...yeah. I mean, sure, it's a tragic story, but in the end true love prevails and they live happily ever after, even after everything that happened. That does make me feel warm and fuzzy.

I guess the end does, sure, but it's an awfully dark and, yes, angsty tale (jealousy is like, prime teenage angsty material!). That's where KQ comes from, so I don't see why it's a problem if TSL is dark and even a bit angsty -- it's true to the source. That was my main point.

[Enchantermon]

I see. In that, I don't disagree with you.

[Baggins]

Of course Hagatha locked Valanice in the tower out of Jealousy over beauty... that's a bit angsty in a small way. Straight of Rapunzel/Queen in Snow White/Sleeping Beauty.

Granted its missing the whole poison apple (Snow White), prince saves the 'dead'/'sleeping' princess angle from Snow White/Sleeping Beauty.