TSL - Cease and Desist
Started by crayauchtin, July 22, 2010, 10:11:28 AM
Quote from: Baggins on July 22, 2010, 03:50:50 AMIts starting to sound like you hate KQV about as much as most people hate MOE, LOL.
Quotenever played MoE...but nothing I've read about it was good. Even the most flattering description said "It's a perfectly great game...but don't call it a King's Quest." and you know something's not quite right when it's treated like Leisure Suit Larry 4 (namely, it does not seem to exist).
QuoteKQ7 was considered one of the controversial King's Quest games, as the animation made alot of people think the game was alot more kiddy-like than the King's Quest Games had been. It was criticized for choppy graphics (although this was probably a limitation of some of the systems that the game was played on), and having inconsistent graphics (due to the fact that different animation houses did the the animation).-Talkspot interview As you are aware, "King's Quest VII" received some negative reviews. Do you pay attention to those reviews or do you take them lightly? I never take any reviews or opinions of game players lightly. If I did, I would have been gone long ago! I pay very close attention to these opinions. As far as "King's Quest VII" receiving "negative reviews" - I really don't know what you are referring to. Perhaps some people didn't like it as well as others, but overall it has done very well. Some people actually think it was the best. True, it got some negative reviews, but it also received many very positive reviews. Some "veteran" game players perhaps didn't like it quite as well as many of the older-style adventure games, but many of the "newer" game players loved it. Therefore, if you're me, who do you listen to? How do you interpret the opinions? With "King's Quest VII," I've seen everything from horrible reviews to the most glowing reviews I've ever received. I've heard from many who didn't like it at all to those who felt it was the best game they've ever played. Also, it sold very well, and is still selling! When it comes to interpreting reviews and/or opinions, it's a very delicate business, and even though I do pay attention to these things, I try to remain objective and never let the "bad news" get me down, or the "good news" get me too self-assured. Once it's all said and done, however, and it comes to the next game, even though I always keep in mind everybody's opinions, it ultimately comes down to my opinion...and what I find enjoyable. I must enjoy the game. I'm working on and to ultimately trust my own judgment.
Quote from: Allronix on July 22, 2010, 03:12:33 PMKQ3 . . . My biggest beef with the game is the copious amount of waiting you have to do. Seriously - there are parts where I can leave the game running, go get a beer, finish the beer, and still have to wait for the plot to advance.
Quote from: Baggins on July 22, 2010, 05:28:42 PMThe 1990 project to revamp the original King's Quest was widely viewed as a critical failure because many reviewers and gamers took offense at what they perceived as an attempt to "destroy the classics." In fact, the project was compared to the controversial practice of "colorizing" classic black-and-white movies. Valid or not, these reactions essentially stopped work on future attempts to modernize later King's Quest installments-KQ Collection II manual.
QuoteMy guess is that the same people who complained about that are the same ones who complained about playing a slave in KQ3 and a girl in KQ4. I don't know what they're talking about; the SCI version is great.
QuoteI'll admit I thought the Space Quest VGA was a great deal of fun, especially the remixed music! The soundtrack is still one of my favorites, especially the ZZ Top homage that landed Sierra's rear in a sling at the time. The way to prevent having to Save Scum the Slots o' Death was VERY welcome, too. Even the sarcasm was cranked up a notch by the cave deaths that used the Two Guys and the "How He Blew It Cam."
Quote from: Allronix on July 23, 2010, 02:31:53 AMThe SCI version was ahead of its time. Now, no one blinks at these kind of updates. In fact, they bring great cheers because gamers are old enough to get a nostalgia filter...but welcome a smoother interface.
Quote from: Allronix on July 23, 2010, 02:31:53 AMI'll admit I thought the Space Quest VGA was a great deal of fun, especially the remixed music! The soundtrack is still one of my favorites, especially the ZZ Top homage that landed Sierra's rear in a sling at the time.
Quote from: Allronix on July 23, 2010, 02:31:53 AMThe way to prevent having to Save Scum the Slots o' Death was VERY welcome, too.
Quote from: Allronix on July 23, 2010, 02:31:53 AMEven the sarcasm was cranked up a notch by the cave deaths that used the Two Guys and the "How He Blew It Cam."
Quote from: Baggins on July 23, 2010, 02:47:37 AMHow do you figure?
Quote from: Baggins on July 23, 2010, 02:47:37 AMI think the only series where remakes were actually viable and did well was Mixed-Up Mother Goose, which was remade like 4 times... going from AGI, to EGA, to VGA and Super VGA.
Quote from: crayauchtin on July 23, 2010, 10:55:01 AMI could have enjoyed an entire series that I missed out on cause I was bitter over that!
QuoteStill, the fact that the witch has the note that gets you to Cloudland (if you understand it) could be considered a sign that she's somehow connected to it. But, yeah, you're right, fairly shoddy storytelling -- but they weren't trying to set much up either
Quotefor the riddles in KQ2.... I don't remember them word for word but I certainly don't recall ever thinking "Oh, well that explains it!" Why is there a door? Why are there THREE doors? Nothing.
QuoteSo, the storytelling is kind of on par with the AGI KQ1... except here they really WERE trying to set things up. They handed you a villain, they handed you a victim, they handed you a hero, they even handed you the objective of rescuing Valanice -- and then they threw in a lot of stuff and didn't bother explaining any of it. What would have been more effective storytelling is if they'd put in a little bit less content in favor of more, well, story.
Quoteand then they threw in a lot of stuff and didn't bother explaining any of it
QuoteBy the by, the bridle thing is a reference to Bellepheron (or however you spell it) in Greek mythology.
QuoteYou know what stopped me from getting into SQ? Those FREAKING SLOT MACHINES. Which I am only just know hearing that you can fix. Why was that not in any walkthroughs I looked at?? I could have enjoyed an entire series that I missed out on cause I was bitter over that!
QuoteAnyways, I would guess that the reason that official remakes tend to become the canon, is because (as we just pointed out elsewhere) the storytelling is better. First of all, you have better technology with which to tell a story. Secondly, you also have begun a series so you sort of know where you're headed better. It's often easiest to write a story backwards.
Quote from: Baggins on July 23, 2010, 01:15:28 PMExtremely distant connection if any...
QuoteThe doors are mentioned in the introduction movie.
QuoteAs far as I know only Companion attempted to give them sorta of background... Basically that it was a magical doorway built to allow eastern Kolyma to travel to western Kolyma, and vice versa, but can also be used to access other parts of the world based on individuals desire (I'm going by memory here, so I might be off a bit). Guess that means there might be another doorway on the other side of those eastern mountains... But its not entirely clear. I have at least part of those facts on the Kolyma page if you want to check them out. There might have been more in 2nd Edition Companion from the An Encyclopedia, but I don't think I ever added the information into the omnipedia.
QuoteIn anycase I think the doors are a nod back to several fantasy ideas such as the Wardrobe in Lion, Witch and the Wadrobe, or the Door in the last book of the Narnia series. Not always explained in great detail, and intended to be mysterious.
QuoteWell as I said, Hagatha isn't even mentioned in the intro, I'm not sure if its ever mentioned in the game if she was the "captor of Valanice", or any variation.
QuoteI'd stilll argue that the story is a bit more advanced than the original KQ1
QuoteBut ya beyond that, as I was saying for its time KQ2 was more sophisticated at storytelling than KQ1 was, it tried for a linear plot, with a beginning a middle and an end. Unfortunately like Roberta said in one of her quotes, although they attempted to have story come first, they were limited by their technology, memory limits and the size of disks. KQ2 was her attempt to do a "larger story than KQ1" within those limitations.
QuoteDo you know you can almost say that about quite a few secondary characters in every game of the series?
QuoteBack to KQ2 for a bit though, there are some clues to Dracula. He and Grandma apparently once had a thing together. But its rather mysterious...
QuoteWhy he or any of the characters has the keys is not clearly explained.
QuoteBut at least his influence around Kolyma is actually mentioned or hinted at as mentioned above. Neptune on the other hand we are given the basic, "he's the ruler of the underwater empire" description on one or two screens. Has no connection to any other characters in the game (other than the mermaid, and the sea horse :p).
QuoteAs I understand it the Bridle was given to Bellerpheron by Athena, or she put it on Pegasus to tame it so Bellerpheron could ride Pegasus. There are different variations so I don't know which you have read.
QuoteWell I wouldn't say the remakes tend to become canon, as far as I know it only occured for space quest really :p...KQ is one of those "who knows" issues, the companion took the original game route, and the KQ novels nod back to the remake... Obviously the original is also canon, as Roger travels there in SQ4 (the Companion also nods at this fact, and points out that its an effect of time travel).
QuoteWe at least know that QFGV seems to use a combination of details from QFG1 original and QFG1 remake in the game. Sam's appearance is more to that of the original QFG1, but the whole Black Bird plot about Elsa bringing the Blackbird from Spielburg is a direct link back to the remake (basically telling you that was the real blackbird).
Quotedidn't say it was *good*, I just said it was there. I think the idea (particularly once the witch had been connected to the chest) is that she had the note so that she could remember his name and get up there herself. Why she couldn't fly, I don't know. Maybe it's too high? :\
Quotefrom the manual: The treasurer stood frozen to the spot. The Princess' bright laughter changed to a witch's cackle as her form grew old and withered. She grasped the Chest and mounted her broom to fly out the open window. The treasurer watched in dismay as she swooped up through the clouds and disappeared.
QuoteNo, a magic door is mentioned in the intro movie.
QuoteAs I said, they jumped the gun and then they never remade it to do it properly.
Quotealthough that was a much bigger spinning wheel!)
QuoteI would say, in general, the canon seems to be that the treasures are recovered after Edward lost them. That's the remake.
QuoteThe blackbird is in both versions of QfG1, just different places in the screen.
Quote from: Baggins on July 24, 2010, 04:35:38 PMSo yep she flew up into the clouds... Seriously that doesn't explain the note anymore than lack of explanation in the original version of the manual (1984 1st/2nd release).
QuoteBut no its really no way to easily explain why she had that note...
QuoteIf you want to get nitpickity, how in the world would he be able to get past the locked door? He's found both sides of that door near the mountain and inside.
QuoteI also point back to that original manual, remember it talked about the "dangerous creatures" and the friendly creatures, the gnome is on the latter, and the witch is on the former, the two don't meet...
QuoteAgain, I state the game's backstory of the door is that it's the "door that gives the heart's desire".Its about as relevant as a "Chest of Gold" tha never empty, or a magical shield that stops any army, or a mirror that fortells the future. Its the "magical door that gives one's heart's desire"., and tells you it is "mysterious".
QuoteExcept we are also told that its the door that is the only entrance which leads to the echanted realm., and when we get to the door, we are told that it requires three keys in order to open it.... and are sent through riddles to where the keys are located.
QuoteActually remember the Ancient Well in KQ1? The past isn't really spell out out to us, and the first KQ described it in more detail than the remake... Saying it was mysterious well of ancient times, shrouded in history and mystery. It only hints at its deep past. Most of that is stripped in the remake... It's still very old in the remake, but most of what made the well cool and mysterious is not mentioned. That's one example where KQ1 remake text sucks in comparison.
QuoteThey jumped the gun? You know maybe if they didn't make the game, we wouldn't even have a king's quest series? Maybe they shouldn't have made the first game, perhaps it "jumped the gun"... because it tried to push things that they clearly didn't have technology for at the time...
QuoteYou are incredibly hard on the game, and seem to be ignorant of how important it was at the time it was made... At the time she more or less received mostly praise for these games. I don't think there was really any negative reviews for either KQ1 and KQ2, because they were technologically far beyond anything any other company was doing at the time, and KQ2 pushed the technology further than the previous games. Forcing players to actually have to buy new hardware in most cases... As far as stories were told, hers were beyond anything other companies were capable of doing at the time on pcs...
QuoteCome to think of it hmm I think Peter Spear mentioned the spinning wheel in the KQ1 novelization, in the first edition of the Companion, before the Remake ever came out... Is this a case where one of the KQ game actually made a nod to the Companion? (of course not necessarily it could just be there to be an extra clue as to his name, to set things closer to the original fairy tale)
QuoteNo, I was referring to the order of how the treasures were found, and also other details like the use of the ring, where the pebbles were found, the castle description, etc.... alligators in the moat, etc :p... They are not in allignment. Peter Spear's a bit of mix of the original version and 1st-4th release (1984-1987) version of the game, plus the story from the manuals from the 4th release (1984, title cover "King's Quest by Roberta Williams') anor/or 5th release (1987 AGI repackaging) manual (that manual whenever it was published was, was the first appearance of the Edward's treasures being stolen, although it wasn't mentioned in the game at that time).
QuoteCourse you are probably awhare that KQ3 follows the original King's Quest canon, using the same castle and many of the same locations from KQ1 AGI (although the graphics have been modified to give them the appearance of ruin).
QuoteUm,in the original it was just an easter egg, there was no story for it. Read the design note I pout on the blackbird page... It was put in there by an artist, and a reference to "bogey" was made. The Coles liked it and decided to create a mythos around it.
QuoteWe don't actually know how high up cloudland is. It's possible to be able to go up in the clouds and maybe not be able to get to Cloudland.
QuoteBut no its really no way to easily explain why she had that note...Maybe she was trying to keep it from good guys? Maybe she ate the last person trying to get the chest?As for the gnome helping because you have a good heart.... that's suspect if you ask me (), if he wanted to help he wouldn't have riddled you to get the beans. The elf doesn't riddle you to get the ring. Your fairy godmother just casts protection on you, she doesn't make you do anything.
QuoteMaybe she was trying to keep it from good guys? Maybe she ate the last person trying to get the chest?As for the gnome helping because you have a good heart.... that's suspect if you ask me (), if he wanted to help he wouldn't have riddled you to get the beans. The elf doesn't riddle you to get the ring. Your fairy godmother just casts protection on you, she doesn't make you do anything.
QuoteDangerous creatures and friendly creatures never meet?
QuoteHe's a thief. He can probably pick locks. Or maybe he has a key, since obviously keys exist. You, on the other hand, do not have a key (unless you mess up the gnome's name) or the ability to pick locks (or anything to pick locks with!)
QuoteAnd that's not a backstory. When they remade KQ1 at least they gave the treasures a little bit more backstory. "Mysterious" is not a backstory for an important story element unless it's a mystery that can be solved.
QuoteBecause you were working off of the Rumplestiltskin fairy tale, I think it's safe to assume that even in the original there is a spinning wheel. It's an added hint in the remake... although it's also quite possible that it's a nod to the companion
QuoteThe mythos was made in QfG2, before the remake. Even though there was no reference to its value in the original, that made it the real one prior to the remake's creation.