Remaking MoE

[Baggins]

Judging from that screen shot its a 2-d sprite based game. So that really doesn't count as "3-d" fire.

It's also clearly a turn based dungeon crawler. So not even in the same genre...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pvf415GQuA

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anvil_of_Dawn

[KatieHal]

I think the problem was that MOE changed too many things at once--if it had only changed a few of those instead, I imagine it would've been more well-received as a KQ game.

And a new slew of posts re: MOE have been merged with this thread from where they were in the Best KQ villain thread.

[snabbott]

Me too. I wish we could see a KQ9 similar to KQ8. I really don't mind the action, so long as there is as much exploration and puzzles. The action, for me, actually makes things more interesting.

TSL was originally supposed to have action elements.

[KatieHal]

We still have a few, later on in the game.

[waltzdancing]

Time to dust off my quick mouse finger then. 

[snabbott]

We still have a few, later on in the game.

Right - how could I forget? I only know about one, though. The others must be future development?

[Baggins]

I think the problem was that MOE changed too many things at once--if it had only changed a few of those instead, I imagine it would've been more well-received as a KQ game.

And a new slew of posts re: MOE have been merged with this thread from where they were in the Best KQ villain thread.

I think at least some of the flack comes from the fact that KQ7 wasn't entirely well received by KQ fans who felt let down after success that was KQ6.

Roberta has admitted they were huge amount of people who didn't like KQ7 because of its cartoony, and its more childish style. That and it was also a way ahead of its time (system requirements wise). Many people who bought it didn't have computers that could run it properly. So they experienced it as very choppy animation.

She probably lost alot of fans that never came back to try KQ8, since it deviated even further, and required even greater specs.

[wilco64256]

It's like they massively over-corrected when they did 8 and came so far to the other end of the spectrum from 7 that they alienated a lot of the other group who hadn't already lost a lot of faith in the series thanks to 7's setup.

[B'rrr]

We still have a few, later on in the game.

Right - how could I forget? I only know about one, though. The others must be future development?

This is new to me, I only read about one boss fight like scene, so there are multiple ones?

[KatieHal]

Well, a 'few' may be overstating it--I was thinking more like 'a few' different things you can do in said sequence, rather than 'a few' different sequences.

[Baggins]

It's like they massively over-corrected when they did 8 and came so far to the other end of the spectrum from 7 that they alienated a lot of the other group who hadn't already lost a lot of faith in the series thanks to 7's setup.

Ya.

Although, on the bright side it brought in alot of new fans from the action gaming market that would probably never have played King's Quest otherwise. So their introduction to the series was a good thing, even if it was too little, too late for the series.

Part of her intent was KQ8 was to create a game with mass appeal that wouldn't be limited to just KQ fans. In that much the game did succeed. It was the best selling adventure game that year (outsold Grim Fandango 2 to 1), and the best selling King's Quest game ever. It just didn't have the mass appeal of mainstream action games like Half-life and other FPS. So it simply couldn't compete. Thus the bean counters saw no reason to make KQ9.

Its been said even if Roberta had stuck closer to previous games, it probably would have failed, and sold far less than it did. It was the fact it drew in a new audience that made it sell as well as it did.

[TheReturnofDMD]

It's like they massively over-corrected when they did 8 and came so far to the other end of the spectrum from 7 that they alienated a lot of the other group who hadn't already lost a lot of faith in the series thanks to 7's setup.

Ya.

Although, on the bright side it brought in alot of new fans from the action gaming market that would probably never have played King's Quest otherwise. So their introduction to the series was a good thing, even if it was too little, too late for the series.

Part of her intent was KQ8 was to create a game with mass appeal that wouldn't be limited to just KQ fans. In that much the game did succeed. It was the best selling adventure game that year (outsold Grim Fandango 2 to 1), and the best stelling King's Quest game. It just didn't have the mass appeal of mainstream action games like Half-life and other FPS. So it simply couldn't compete. Thus the bean counters saw no reason to make KQ9.

Its been said even if Roberta had stuck closer to previous games, it probably would have failed, and sold far less than it did. It was the fact it drew in a new audience that made it sell as well as it did.

Right.

And I don't think it deviated too far. Actually in a lot of ways it went backwards, in a sense--In the early games, KQ1 and KQ2 you COULD kill the bad guys or at least some of them, but you weren't rewarded for it. It also brought back the ability to jump, swim, etc.
To me, the action was never an issue, but that's just me 

[Baggins]

I agree. I think its got an almost retro feel to it, like if for example KQ1-KQ2 (and lesser extent 3 and 4) were recreated in 3-d. There is this sense of open ended explorable world (like the earliest games) with puzzles scattered about. The enemies in MOE remind me of the "random enemies" encounters from KQ1, 2, 3 and 4 (of course the ones in MOE are far less dangerous in comparison). Especially if you consider those goblins and spriggans are essentially the equivalent of the monsters that invaded Daventry back in KQ1, story wise.

[TheReturnofDMD]

I agree. I think its got an almost retro feel to it, like if for example KQ1-KQ2 (and lesser extent 3 and 4) were recreated in 3-d. There is this sense of open ended explorable world (like the earliest games) with puzzles scattered about. The enemies in MOE remind me of the "random enemies" encounters from KQ1, 2, 3 and 4 (of course the ones in MOE are far less dangerous in comparison). Especially if you consider those goblins and spriggans are essentially the equivalent of the monsters that invaded Daventry back in KQ1, story wise.

Yup, plus you've got the 'non-Royalty' main character. I mean to be fair, KQ1 isn't the Quest of a King, but the Quest to be a King. Graham is a Knight in KQ1, and only in the very end becomes King.
It was definitely a rebirth and reinvention of the series, with retro elements and modern elements all shown through the lens of a more modern genre and technology. It was a King's Quest for the 21st century. I do hope someday Activision makes a sequel like it, staying true to the mythology of the games of course. Nothing like the KQ9 that Sierra was making in 2002--No Zelda-ish 3D. I like that 'realistic' 3D style and the very Medieval world and feel of Mask.

[crayauchtin]

My dream is for King's Quest to become a world unto itself, like Dungeons & Dragons is. Many stories, many families, many kingdoms, worlds and adventures to explore. I think "King's Quest", the universe, can go beyond the Royal Family of Daventry.
Look at Adventure in Serenia--That sort of idea. It's the same universe, indeed, same land as KQ5, just different characters with no direct connection to King's Quest.

I would LOVE that. That was part of my idea behind the King's Quest roleplaying thread on these forums, but not enough people seemed interested.
Honestly, I'm a BIG fan of MoE as a game and even as a game set in the King's Quest world but I felt that -- like Adventure in Serenia -- it needed to be a bit more separated. You could honestly make games set in the KQ world in SO many genres -- simulation (a medieval Sims game that takes place in Daventry?), strategy (kingdoms warring against each other -- not Daventry, cause hello Shield, but maybe like... Eastern & Western Kolyma, etc), adventure (been there ), action/RPG (a la MoE)... you get the idea! Not to mention tabletop RPGs!

There is so much that can be done with the universe of King's Quest. All it takes is imagination.

I'm going to take this moment to not-so-subtly shamelessly plug some things to help encourage this sort of creativity....
First of all: King's Quest Roleplaying Thread! Check my signature or click that link!!
Second of all: Creative Expression section of the forum -- perfect for writing out your ideas for the KQ universe!
Thirdly: King's Quest Omnipedia -- did you know it has a fan fiction section? And, were a successful roleplay to begin, I bet Baggins would agree to let the RP be archived in the fanfiction section!
Fourthly: My much less specific and still fledgling Arcane Lore Wiki for all things high fantasy -- including King's Quest! It's meant to be a very lore-specific resource for writer's and RPers. (Much like the all-inclusive SciFi Wiki... but, y'know, less science!) I'd love to have some fanfics and RPs to archive and/or link to on there as well!

And.... as a source of inspiration, the Encyclopedia Mythica pretty much covers all the mythology and folklore you could ever want.
SO... my challenge to all of you.... Let the creativity begin!

...and if it helps, I'm also going to post the Prologue to the fanfic I'm working on this weekend. You have been warned!

[Baggins]

cause hello Shield, but maybe like

No seriously, all it takes is strong magic, and shield ceases to work... :p... Whoever sold the shield to Daventry lied...

[crayauchtin]

Okay, so, maybe Daventry would be like the enemy in the final campaign in the game then? Or, you would play Daventry in the first campaign and it would be pretty easy.

[atec123]

One thing I didn't like about moe, was how f***ing different daventry was!  I feel like if it wasn't daventry or there was some explanation I wouldn't have minded.  also, the way I want to see KQ8 as you guys should know is in 2d/AGS form.  3d, and especially first person and with that sort of combat just wasn't doing it for me.   I loved the game, but I think in edition to the game as it was, I would want to see it redone in 2d.  not sure how I would want the story to me.  probably more connected to the rest of the series, however that may be.  Maybe use the production version of the game as a base, but take some earlier ideas and come up with some new ideas.  I remember in KQ2VGA there was somthing with Connor.  haven't played that one in ages though, so I don't remember it really.  in fact, I need to play it again. 

howbout QfG style fights in addition to some of those cinimatic stuffs?  all in VGA/AGS stuffs.  just a thought.  actually thats all this post really is.

[Baggins]

The problem with "Daventry" (assuming you are referring to the kingdom) is its completely different in pretty much every single game in the series...

While KQ1 and KQ3 had similar looking locations were in completely different areas in both games. I.E the Ancient WEll is much too close to the Door into Mountain in KQ3. When they were essentially on 5-6 screens apart in KQ1.

In KQV the area changed appearances yet again. What is seen doesn't relate to anyh areas from the previous games. There wasn't a big hill  in front of the castle in KQ1. Plus several rivers are missing, that were infront of the castle in KQ1.

In KQ7, Daventry might actually be on a plateau above a deep valley... Although its hard to tell.

KQ8? It mostly portrays a village that simply was never shown in previous games. The castle? It's portrayed on a hill/mountain.

[atec123]

I dunno... the castle , the kingdom, everything just didn't look right to me. Good point about it changing in the other games though.  also there was nothing really to be seen in daventry that was seen in previous games that I can think of...  it was essentially a totally different place and I didn't like the changes.  in the other games, I didn't mind them.