Influences on MoE

[TheReturnofDMD]

We've pinpointd in past KQ games some very specific fairy tales or folklore referenced in or influencing a KQ game.

However, what would you say are the mythological, literature, and folk lore influences on MoE?

I've got Medieval Christian Mysticism as a HEAVY influence (with the alchemy, the Church, the idea of Lucreto as a version of Lucifer the Fallen Angel, etc), JRR Tolkien and some medieval Romances (like L'Morte D'Arthur and Sir Gawain and the Green Knight) but that's it.

Anyone see any other influences?

[kindofdoon]

I've never played it, but I read somewhere that with MoE, Roberta wanted to explore spirituality, which I assume implies some sort of divinity.

Out of curiosity, why are you so fixated on MoE? (not meant to be rude, just curious)

[TheReturnofDMD]

I've never played it, but I read somewhere that with MoE, Roberta wanted to explore spirituality, which I assume implies some sort of divinity.

Out of curiosity, why are you so fixated on MoE? (not meant to be rude, just curious)

Because I feel it was the most ''unfinished'' KQ game and had a lot of unexplored potential to perhaps even be better than KQ6. It's also the most mature, and it was a totally new and exciting take on KQ (with the action and full 3D). It just intrigues me--It's why I'd like to remake it, to try to grasp all of that unreached potential.

And I'm asking in this thread because I'm sure a lot of KQ fans are a lot more mythology savvy than I am, which could help with the remake efforts.

[kindofdoon]

Personally, I don't know much about it. I wish you luck with any sort of a remake.

As for being "mythology-savvy", just wait until Baggins finds this thread...he'll annihilate us with pure information! In a good way of course, as always...

[Baggins]

KindofDoon, you don't know what your asking for

The idea I sorta had in the back of my mind in developing this game, its not really heavy, or fleshed out strongly, it was the idea of exploring spirituality a little bit, I don't want to get heavy with this, but the idea of religions maybe, or lightness and darkness, chaos and order, and why people believe the way they do, and I sort of went back to primitive religions, and looking really at all religions, seeing what was some commonalities among them. ...and one of the things I found was the idea of a sun god as either the main god or even the sacred God we all believe in today has even had alot of sun symbology with him...and so I looked back at, like Mesopotamia had their big god, who was a sun god, and he was shown by his symbol was a golden disk with wings. If you look at our mask that we have here, he is golden, and gold has been symbolic of the sun, because it's an incorruptible material, it always shines, it never tarnishes. You can see he sort of has that sun look, the rays are coming out from him. The wings above his eyes came from the old Mesopotamian god, the winged disk...and also the beard comes from the idea of the lion and Leo, and lions have also been associated with God, and sun gods, and the sun in ancient religions, and is also a very powerful male symbol...and so I took those ideas and worked with a very good artist, working for Sierra, by the name of John Shroades, and he, I gave him all those ideas, and I gave him different masks he could look at, and the different symbology of various masks, ancient masks, and he came up with this, and I just think it's a very strong symbol."
"ya, and the mask is, I mean really...even the idea of the Mask of Eternity, is a term that means essentially...again it is a reference to sort of a god, or old religions of a god. It is sort of like everybody has their own version of what your god could be or what it could look like or stand for. The image or the mask is each person's version or vision of what it could be. Because you could never really see the face of God."
-Roberta Williams, Talk Spot 2.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azrael

Obviously River of Death = River Styx. The Boatman = Charon.

All the Egyptian stuff in DoD serves an important point in the mythology of the game.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maat (highly influences many of the concepts in both DoD, and even Realm of the Sun)

http://www.egyptianmyths.net/anubis.htm
Azrael's also a bit inspired by Anubis, and his Scales of Truth are straight from Egyptian mythology

http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/Lever_of_Life
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ankh
Obviously the Ankh, is an important theme..

The Lady in the Lake, and the Sword of the Lake = Excalibur. Many assorted versions of King Arthur story.

Apple of Nakedness = Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. Adam and Eve story.

[darthkiwi]

Also, the small Paradise Lost level is named after Milton's poem of the same name, which tells the story of Adam and Eve. So, thinking about it, there really is rather a lot of Satan/Early Genesis stuff in there, what with the villain being a version of Lucifer.

[Baggins]

Ya, the lost paradise is Eden itself.

[kindofdoon]

the small Paradise Lost level

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but what does this refer to?

[Baggins]

The little caldera at the end of the Frozen Reaches. Its a lush meadow of flowers, with stone henge in the center. There is a alter in the middle that when activated opens a portal up to the Realm of the Sun.

[kindofdoon]

Oh, it's from MoE. I should have realized that.

[Baggins]

Isn't MOE what we are discussing in this topic .

[TheReturnofDMD]

Seems that there was a lot of very deep symbolism in MoE--Which even KQ6 lacked (it was more straight forward in both its mythology and plot). Seems there's a lot of subtext to MoE, which pretty much all of the previous KQ games lacked.

[kindofdoon]

Isn't MOE what we are discussing in this topic

Yeah, I posted without thinking...

Seems there's a lot of subtext to MoE

By this, are you referring to spirituality? Or something else.

[Baggins]

Well, KQ6 also had some deep parts, but probably limited to the symbology in the Realm of the Dead, druid stuff, ancients, winged ones & oracle stuff...

Most of the other stuff on the other islands was pretty whimsical, basic fairy tale fluff.

[TheReturnofDMD]

Isn't MOE what we are discussing in this topic

Yeah, I posted without thinking...

Seems there's a lot of subtext to MoE

By this, are you referring to spirituality? Or something else.

Spirituality, and seeing as it figures heavily into the plot, the plot itself. It's seemingly a straight forward plot (Get Mask, defeat bad guy)--but there seems to be a deeper meaning there, which the other games lacked. KQ6 came close though.

[kindofdoon]

KQ6 came close though.

It seems like a textbook fairy tale. I mean, yes, there were more serious moments, like entering the Underworld for example, but mostly, it seemed to me like a game to be taken at face value.

Can you explain what you mean?

[Baggins]

Well, MOE had its fairy tale stuff too, but even those characters were directly tied into the symbology more than any previous game imo. Chaos, order, light and darkness, etc.

Then there are those 10 minute long speeches, where some character such as the Wizard, Azriel, King Mudge, Hillman Leader, etc give Connor one of his many Tolkien-esque titles (I mean how Aragorn and Gandalf seem to be given  a new title each new place they enter). Each one has some symbolic meaning, tied to the mythology of the game. Chosen One, True Upholder, the Deliverer, the Enlightened One, Champion Eternal, etc. All seem to make him out to be the "savior" an almost messiah to the game world.

Add to that philosophical discussions on what true nobility actually is. Connor argues that he has nobility despite having been born a commonor, and nobility is something proven by actions, not by your lineage.

Can you explain what you mean?

I think he's referring to spiritual subcontexts. For example all the Green Isles cultural religious material and belief systems. As I mentioned the game has them, but mainly in details concerning Island of the Sacred Mountain, the Druid culture, and the Realm of the Dead. There is a chapter in the Guidebook that essentially ties those three together explaining the spiritual connections to the world and universe. As well as a chapter that goes into Sacred Island philosophy (which is all based on element of air, and intellectualism).

You get a few details about the Realm of the Dead and its symbolism from multiple characters in the game (including Ali and the Ferryman), and it gets much deeper once you start interacting with the druids to find a way to the Realm.