Author Topic: Episode 2 review (spoiler-free)  (Read 12174 times)

Offline KatieHal

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Re: Episode 2 review (spoiler-free)
« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2010, 09:57:57 AM »
You'd essentially be in the same position as any other fangame is now. Would yours become official? Probably not. But that doesn't necessarily stop you from making it anyways if you so choose and had a fan license agreement.

I add that last part because any group that owns the IP of a game and stops a fanmade game is doing what's in their right--protecting their IP. But that's why the fan license can be a great thing and basically lets both sides win in a manner of speaking.

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Offline Fierce Deity

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Re: Episode 2 review (spoiler-free)
« Reply #21 on: September 16, 2010, 10:03:28 AM »
Anybody else who may have a differing view, or different vision of the series, will be SOL. And yes, we are. Activision isn't too sitting on it, seeing as they just allowed for the release all of the previous games to gog.com That's more than Vivendi ever did. I don't see the need for it be commercial again. It's not going to be a WOW level game, especially if it remains a pure adventure game--It's going to be a niche product whether it's commercial or not.
And exposure should have no better as to whether someone should be allowed to do something. Popularity, or a good PR team have nothing to do with quality.

What does Activision dropping their C&D have to do with anything? Vivendi/Activision also allowed ADGI to continue work on their games.

And you say it's a reality, but isn't. They don't have the rights. If they did, it would suck to see one vision (and that of KQ being a psychological/teenage thriller, none the less) be the ONLY vision.

If somebody has a different view, then they can write fan-fiction. That's what it's there for. And yes, Activision is sitting on the IP. Re-releasing games into a bundle pack is not a productive stance for a community that clearly is looking for a conclusion to the series.

Now, Phoenix has had exposure to the media, and that allows them to be a likely candidate. I never said it was written in stone that they will be making King's Quest games commercially. I just said, IF it were to happen, they are more likely to make the games than some guy writing KQ fan-fiction trying to fill that void that was left behind. Activision dropping the C&D was a sign of faith in the project.

Phoenix clearly wants to make a KQ game, while AGDI said that they will be focusing on new enterprises and won't be doing any more King's Quest games. Now out of the two, which ones sounds like they will be willing to make a a new KQ game commercially if Activision should decide to bring one into existence? I never said that them making the next KQ game is a reality; only that the likeliness that they will IF, IF, and only IF Activision should want it done, is a reality. No other candidate is as likely as Phoenix. THAT, is a reality.

Also, who says that Phoenix' vision would have to be the ONLY vision. There are tons of visions. For instance, going back to my Devil May Cry reference, DMC has changed developers for every single installment in the franchise. The series in no way has been consistent. That goes to show that there is more than one vision. Just because something becomes commercial doesn't mean that everyone in the world, by law, has to refer to it as the ONE AND ONLY VISION. That would be tyrannical.  :-\
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Re: Episode 2 review (spoiler-free)
« Reply #22 on: September 16, 2010, 10:07:18 AM »
You'd essentially be in the same position as any other fangame is now. Would yours become official? Probably not. But that doesn't necessarily stop you from making it anyways if you so choose and had a fan license agreement.

I add that last part because any group that owns the IP of a game and stops a fanmade game is doing what's in their right--protecting their IP. But that's why the fan license can be a great thing and basically lets both sides win in a manner of speaking.

And how would I know I would get a fan license?
My point is, you have the IP and there's nothing stopping you from taking all of the originals out of production, for example, and putting out your own remakes of them instead, or totally rebooting the series. There'd be nothing stopping you from stomping out other prospective sequel ideas. That's a scary thought no matter who has the IP, and Sierra/KQ fans have only been consistently disappointed since 1996 when Sierra was sold, so I don't see why the future should be any different, and why I should expect any better.
The status quo as it is, where the future of the series belongs to the fans (Since KQ, being a niche game in a niche genre doesn't fit Activision's stated business model of creating games which could be exploitable annually on every console--literally what their CEO stated was their business model) as Activision doesn't likely have any interest, fiscally or otherwise, in making their own KQ. The status quo of the series thus belonging to the fans in a sense, with Activision giving fan licenses to pretty much every group it would seem, is a nice one.

Offline wilco64256

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Re: Episode 2 review (spoiler-free)
« Reply #23 on: September 16, 2010, 10:08:57 AM »
But that's the whole driving idea behind the concept of you making a fan sequel.  The same way that we are also just making a fan sequel.  It happens all the time in both the game and movie industries, fans write sequels or prequels and then something else gets recognized (or just made) as official which conflicts with what was done by the fans.  Doesn't change the quality of the fan's work, and it doesn't stop them from making more.  It also doesn't make the fan work any more or less official than it was to begin with.

Us having a fan license doesn't make us any more or less "official" than any other fan group, it just gives us "official permission" to make our unofficial game.

Honestly, right now there's no way we could realistically say that IF we held the IP we'd give fan licenses to any specific group or deny them to any specific group.  It would be stupid for us to make a promise like that without having any kind of actual agreement or understanding of what the group's game will be like beforehand.  We know firsthand what it's like to be shut down after doing tons of work on a project and wouldn't go out of our way to put other people through that, but we also aren't going to blanket promise that every fan project would be given an automatic fan license no matter what.  That would be a discussion for much later.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2010, 10:17:25 AM by wilco64256 »
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Offline KatieHal

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Re: Episode 2 review (spoiler-free)
« Reply #24 on: September 16, 2010, 10:16:16 AM »
The situation you describe is the same one as it is now, except that inplace of the faceless conglomerate of Activision, you've placed the not-so-faceless Phoenix Online group.

How does anyone know they'll get a fan license now? Well, there's asking for one, it usually makes a good first step. In our case, there was the slightly more rocky situation of getting a C&D first. As well, the previous fan licenses were worked out with Vivendi; ours is the first one that Activision has actually ever given to anyone.

However, I don't feel like any answer I give you is going to satisfy you, DMD. It's clear that this is your opinion and you're quite steadfast about it. That's fine, but it makes debating it rather pointless since no one is going to change their minds--and additionally, this ground has been gone over multiple times in another thread already. I'd like to ask that, therefore, we let this thread get back to its original topic.

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Offline Lambonius

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Re: Episode 2 review (spoiler-free)
« Reply #25 on: September 16, 2010, 10:21:46 AM »
As much as I have criticised the tonal direction that TSL seems to be taking, even I have to admit that it seems pretty unlikely that a group composed of fan developers that had to go through so many trials just to get permission to release their game would be intent on ruling with an iron fist and stamping out the hopes of other fan-developers with the same kinds of intentions that they had starting out.  I just don't see it happening.  If anything, I think TSL is a testament to how much people (both developers and ordinary fans) are interested in ANY new Sierra-like adventures, regardless of where they come from or how tonally different from the originals they may be. ;)  So, while I may not like everything about TSL, I think it would be far more likely that the IP coming into the possession of the fans (because ultimately, that's what the POS folks are) would probably be the best possible thing to happen to the prospects of future KQ fan games.  Because fans of the series would ultimately be very interested in seeing new ideas from other fans--especially proven groups like AGDI and IA.

Offline wilco64256

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Re: Episode 2 review (spoiler-free)
« Reply #26 on: September 16, 2010, 10:25:12 AM »
What I'm really eager to see are more comments from the other folks who won the early release copies of Episode 2.  I'm happy to see that people are enjoying it so far and that our efforts to make improvements based on feedback and criticism of Episode 1 are appreciated. 
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Re: Episode 2 review (spoiler-free)
« Reply #27 on: September 16, 2010, 10:28:38 AM »
As much as I have criticised the tonal direction that TSL seems to be taking, even I have to admit that it seems pretty unlikely that a group composed of fan developers that had to go through so many trials just to get permission to release their game would be intent on ruling with an iron fist and stamping out the hopes of other fan-developers with the same kinds of intentions that they had starting out.  I just don't see it happening.  If anything, I think TSL is a testament to how much people (both developers and ordinary fans) are interested in ANY new Sierra-like adventures, regardless of where they come from or how tonally different from the originals they may be. ;)  So, while I may not like everything about TSL, I think it would be far more likely that the IP coming into the possession of the fans (because ultimately, that's what the POS folks are) would probably be the best possible thing to happen to the prospects of future KQ fan games.  Because fans of the series would ultimately be very interested in seeing new ideas from other fans--especially proven groups like AGDI and IA.

We finally fully agree on something :)


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Re: Episode 2 review (spoiler-free)
« Reply #28 on: September 16, 2010, 12:07:43 PM »
What I'm really eager to see are more comments from the other folks who won the early release copies of Episode 2.  I'm happy to see that people are enjoying it so far and that our efforts to make improvements based on feedback and criticism of Episode 1 are appreciated. 
I'm looking forward to seeing the "official" reviews, too. They're not as important as what the fans think, though.

(Posted on: September 16, 2010, 12:53:58 PM)


Also, I'm wondering if anyone found the easter eggs - and if so, what they thought of them!
« Last Edit: September 16, 2010, 01:57:26 PM by snabbott »

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Offline KatieHal

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Re: Episode 2 review (spoiler-free)
« Reply #29 on: September 16, 2010, 12:31:05 PM »
Hehe, I'll be interested to see that as well...they aren't announced yet, but some of our contests for Episode 2 are actually based on a few of those. :)

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Offline snabbott

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Re: Episode 2 review (spoiler-free)
« Reply #30 on: September 16, 2010, 12:33:36 PM »
There's one in particular that I would bet they haven't found yet! :) :suffer:

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Offline liggy002

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Re: Episode 2 review (spoiler-free)
« Reply #31 on: September 16, 2010, 01:14:16 PM »
It seems in the Trailer, they still dont have the Lip Syncing right, that Genie sure loves showing his Teeth.  :suffer:

Are you Allowed to Post Any Screens, the New Game Settings and In-Game Screens.  :-[ :-[

Was there a Trailer for Episode 3 After the Credits.  ::)

Maybe its just me but, in the Trailer it looked like the Graphics was Sharper then in Episode 1.  ???

The lip syncing was something that I nitpicked on as well.  It's not a huge deal but they may be looking to improve it in Episode 3.  

Offline dark-daventry

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Re: Episode 2 review (spoiler-free)
« Reply #32 on: September 16, 2010, 01:50:15 PM »
I must say, that after having early access to the game, I was thoroughly blown away early on by how much better it was over episode 1. I can say that I had a very hard time with the puzzles (I always had to ask for help from the team) which is a testament to how hard the puzzles are. Which is a good thing. But ep 2 is really enjoyable, and I think everyone will be VERY pleased with the end result. I haven't been able to see the latest builds because of my college internet, but I'm sure that they're far better than what I was playing (and believe me, what i was playing was really good, even if it was early!) And yes, this is my first post in quite some time...
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Offline snabbott

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Re: Episode 2 review (spoiler-free)
« Reply #33 on: September 16, 2010, 01:53:41 PM »
Hard, maybe, but not ridiculous. No using cheese to charge wands here! :P

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Offline atec123

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Re: Episode 2 review (spoiler-free)
« Reply #34 on: September 16, 2010, 02:05:44 PM »
Hard, maybe, but not ridiculous. No using cheese to charge wands here! :P
might I ask... have you ever tried charging your wand with cheese in real life?

It could happen........ :P
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Offline kindofdoon

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Re: Episode 2 review (spoiler-free)
« Reply #35 on: September 16, 2010, 02:07:26 PM »
As for easter eggs, KQ5Fan PM'd me a great one involving a :suffer:...I was thoroughly surprised and amused.

I LOVE the shorter narrations. I have nothing against Ms. Kurylo, but with shorter narrations enabled, the game felt much more like an adventure rather than storytime.

Walking/running: leaps and bounds above Episode 1, pun intended. I initially didn't think that I would run, preferring instead to walk, but by the end of Episode 2, I had auto-run enabled. Very good idea and well implemented.

The plot was very gripping. By the end of the episode, there was so much nervous tension and excitement, and I got so wrapped up in the drama, that I actually starting to tell Graham to run faster because of how badly I wanted to see what happened next. I've never felt more directly engaged in the plot of any game/movie/book than I did with Episode 2.

There was one new voice actor I didn't like, but aside from that one, I thought that all of the new voices were spot-on and fitting for their characters.

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Offline dark-daventry

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Re: Episode 2 review (spoiler-free)
« Reply #36 on: September 16, 2010, 02:11:42 PM »
Hard, maybe, but not ridiculous. No using cheese to charge wands here! :P

True. True indeed. I would like to see one optional puzzle like that though as an easter egg lol.

Hard, maybe, but not ridiculous. No using cheese to charge wands here! :P
might I ask... have you ever tried charging your wand with cheese in real life?

It could happen........ :P

No I haven't... But perhaps I should try...

As for easter eggs, KQ5Fan PM'd me a great one involving a :suffer:...I was thoroughly surprised and amused.

I LOVE the shorter narrations. I have nothing against Ms. Kurylo, but with shorter narrations enabled, the game felt much more like an adventure rather than storytime.

Walking/running: leaps and bounds above Episode 1, pun intended. I initially didn't think that I would run, preferring instead to walk, but by the end of Episode 2, I had auto-run enabled. Very good idea and well implemented.

The plot was very gripping. By the end of the episode, there was so much nervous tension and excitement, and I got so wrapped up in the drama, that I actually starting to tell Graham to run faster because of how badly I wanted to see what happened next. I've never felt more directly engaged in the plot of any game/movie/book than I did with Episode 2.

There was one new voice actor I didn't like, but aside from that one, I thought that all of the new voices were spot-on and fitting for their characters.

Ah, the suffer... One of my favorite moments... But we can't talk about that just yet...
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Offline KQ5Fan

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Re: Episode 2 review (spoiler-free)
« Reply #37 on: September 16, 2010, 02:34:32 PM »
Oh, I actually just remembered the one long narration that bothered me.... And I'm pretty sure it was in Episode 1 as well, so I'm not really spoiling anything (I think) but I thought the one where the narrator promotes herself and her website really didn't have to be there for the people preferring short narrations.

Offline KatieHal

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Re: Episode 2 review (spoiler-free)
« Reply #38 on: September 16, 2010, 02:36:40 PM »
Ah--yeah, I tended towards leaving in ones that were more like 'easter eggs'.

And frankly, it's not like we were able to pay Amy for all the tons of lines she recorded, so I'm okay with letting her plug her website!

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Offline snabbott

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Re: Episode 2 review (spoiler-free)
« Reply #39 on: September 16, 2010, 03:20:41 PM »
Yeah - and besides, I did want to learn more about the wonderful narrator! :)

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