Plot conflict

[TheReturnofDMD]

We already had a game like your hypothetical idea--a KQ without a number which was an isolated story from the others and didn't revolve around the Royal Family of Daventry and was not numbered so as not to alienate new fans--It was a fresh reboot if you will.

They called it King's Quest: Mask of Eternity.

To be fair, Cez said such a game WOULD revolve around the Royal Family.

True and I edited my post, but does the KQ series NEED a reboot?



(Posted on: September 20, 2010, 12:44:33 AM)

We've never given you any reason to think that we ever WOULD overhaul any of the originals and change their current plots in any way - you came up with that idea totally on your own and seem deliberately determined to hijack any thread  you can into an argument about what YOU think WE would do if we held the rights to the series.  You seem to be deliberately forgetting that the series is beloved to us too, everybody on this team has loved this series for most of their lives and we have no intention of burning the whole thing to the ground and rebuilding from scratch - anybody who says that is just paranoid and making ridiculous claims.

Now I'm sick of you trying to paint us in some kind of horrible light for stating that we - AS FANS - would love it if we ever had the opportunity to do more with the series than take 8 years to make a piece of fan fiction.  It's ridiculous that you do so every chance you get and extremely disrespectful to our whole team.  If that scenario ever becomes a reality then we'll happily discuss it at that time, but until then leave it alone.  It's annoying and brings nothing positive to the table in any way.

Sorry, but I'm not waiting until it's a reality to complain, because then it's too late.
The fan fiction you wrote which does overhaul some pretty nice sized plot elements of the original stories is what gives me reason to question your intent as to a possible commercial game. You guys coming out and repeatedly saying in a bunch of different interviews and even in places that the idea of you buying the rights is seriously being considered is what gives rise to my worries.

To act as if I pulled these ideas, or the fact that you guys have already begun to bend the past so to speak with TSL from the air is a deflection from my points.

And Cesar said in his idea of a commercial game might essentially be a reboot and a completely isolated story, featuring (possibly?) only the original characters. That gives rise to further concern.

I really don't know why you keep banging on the same drum. What you say is not going to change our perspective. That is down to Activision, so maybe you should write them instead of writing us.

But you're the main guy here. This partly is down to you, because they don't have to sell if someone's not willing to buy. It's a 50/50 thing. I'd rather question those who'd be reinventing or creating "reboots"--Your word, not mine--of a series I love than a gigantic corporation who doesn't really give puny fans like me the time of day.

[Lambonius]

Because we're not, and the next time you claim that we are in this forum that post will be immediately modded.  

Well that's a little fascistic, isn't it?  Silence the opposition and all that?     A slightly less impassioned, toned down version of such a debate should be allowed, in my opinion.

[Cez]

IF we had the rights, in the first place we'd try to get the original designers involved.

Even Josh Mandel?  You wouldn't fire them if they disagreed with you?

I would have agreed with Josh Mandel back then if we were trying to reboot the series, and I agree with him now that calling this game something else than King's Quest IX was the best thing that we could have ever done. He said he wouldn't mind any of the changes if we had only not decided to call it "King's Quest IX". And he was right.

Fair enough.    I am curious though how you would handle working with the original developers.  Would you feel inclined to let them take the reigns on the creative story process, conceivably making a game that was tonally much closer to the originals than your vision for TSL?  From your responses on this board and in other conversations we've had, it's clear that you're very protective of your own story ideas and writing.  Not trying to insult, just an honest question.

I'd probably take more the role of a producer rather than a designer. There would probably be certain guidelines that I'd try to implement to make the game work in an episodic format if we were to go for that business model (Start with a bang, go for a story that would lend itself to have great cliffhangers at the end of each episode, etc), and I would probably give them ideas for the story. But, in my role of producer, I try not to mess much with the creative process, aside than just pointing ways to enhance it to fit certain business models.

[wilco64256]

Because we're not, and the next time you claim that we are in this forum that post will be immediately modded.  

Well that's a little fascistic, isn't it?  Silence the opposition and all that?     A slightly less impassioned, toned down version of such a debate should be allowed, in my opinion.

I'd be perfectly fine with a calm and rational discussion of possibilities along that hypothetical line, but DMD insists on turning any such discussion into a panic session about all the evil we'd do in such a scenario and that specifically is unacceptable.

[scintilla77]

IF we had the rights, in the first place we'd try to get the original designers involved.

2nd, we wouldn't try to write a story to please the fans, and therefore have all the past returning so that they could enjoy all the cameos, etc. It would probably be an isolated story, regardless of the tone. But this is a game by fans for fans with the idea of giving closure to the KQ story, so it's obvious that what we were trying to do was pull all the past into this to tie up lose ends. And while we were doing that, we wrote a story to connect it all.

But I would never do that if I was doing a commercial game. That's the worse way to alienate newcomers: Throw in their laps a bunch of stuff that they don't care about or have no knowledge of. I'd probably not even put a number to the game because you don't want to give the impression that there's baggage before it. You want to market it as a new thing, give it a fresh reboot, and write an isolated story-- one that you can continue if successful, but that has little to do with the past efforts, aside from revolving around the Daventry Family.

I don't understand...why do you want to "reboot" the entire series, Cez? What's wrong with the series as it is now? Besides, I don't see why a commercial game would have to throw all the characters from older games at the player...I mean, there were hardly any reoccurring characters in the official games besides the main ones...

[Lambonius]

I don't understand...why do you want to "reboot" the entire series, Cez? What's wrong with the series as it is now? Besides, I don't see why a commercial game would have to throw all the characters from older games at the player...I mean, there were hardly any reoccurring characters in the official games besides the main ones...

Actually, Cez said that a commercial game WOULDN'T need to reuse a lot of old characters, because that type of thing is more fan service than anything else (which is why it happens so much in TSL, it being a fan game and all.)  I think you misunderstood him.

That said, I don't think the series needs a complete reboot either, but I'd be okay with seeing stand alone KQ stories that didn't necessarily try to tie in to the existing series storyline.  I think that's all he meant by that statement.

[Cez]

IF we had the rights, in the first place we'd try to get the original designers involved.

2nd, we wouldn't try to write a story to please the fans, and therefore have all the past returning so that they could enjoy all the cameos, etc. It would probably be an isolated story, regardless of the tone. But this is a game by fans for fans with the idea of giving closure to the KQ story, so it's obvious that what we were trying to do was pull all the past into this to tie up lose ends. And while we were doing that, we wrote a story to connect it all.

But I would never do that if I was doing a commercial game. That's the worse way to alienate newcomers: Throw in their laps a bunch of stuff that they don't care about or have no knowledge of. I'd probably not even put a number to the game because you don't want to give the impression that there's baggage before it. You want to market it as a new thing, give it a fresh reboot, and write an isolated story-- one that you can continue if successful, but that has little to do with the past efforts, aside from revolving around the Daventry Family.

I don't understand...why do you want to "reboot" the entire series, Cez? What's wrong with the series as it is now? Besides, I don't see why a commercial game would have to throw all the characters from older games at the player...I mean, there were hardly any reoccurring characters in the official games besides the main ones...

I mean a reboot in such a way that we wouldn't need to revisit the past to please the fans. No Green Isles, evil guys from the past, building up on concepts from some games (Black Cloak Society), etc.

We'd probably have the Daventry family in their current configuration faced with a new problem that they'd have to solve. That's what I mean by a reboot, not hmm, for example the reboot of Nightmare on Elm Street.

[Lambonius]

I think KQ could work well in an episodic format as a commercial title.  Space Quest would work even better, since that series would lend itself incredibly well to corny B-movie serial style cliffhangers.

[wilco64256]

I think KQ could work well in an episodic format as a commercial title.  Space Quest would work even better, since that series would lend itself incredibly well to corny B-movie serial style cliffhangers.

People would probably complain less about sarcastic narrations in a Space Quest game too.

Not to mention all the fun we could have with smell and taste interactions.  Possibly one of the most entertaining ideas EVER.

[Lambonius]

Actually, I want to qualify that original statement a bit.  I think one of the best parts of the earlier KQ games was the open-ended exploratory aspect.  Episodic games, by their very nature, are pretty confining, and typically (and this is the case with all the Telltale games, too, not just TSL) are incredibly linear, a lot moreso than the older adventure games were (which is ironic, given the fact that the adventure game is one of the most linear types of games, in that it focuses purely on advancing a self-contained storyline.)  So in order for a KQ game to really work well episodically, it'd have to figure out a way to allow for more open-ended exploration AND a strong narrative, which is so far something TSL seems to be having some trouble balancing.  Not a dig, just an observation.

[kindofdoon]

What's wrong with the series as it is now?

The team has no intention of remaking the original KQ series. By "reboot", they simply mean that they want take a new tone and direction with the KQ universe in the fangames they produce.

[TheReturnofDMD]

What's wrong with the series as it is now?

The team has no intention of remaking the original KQ series, fear not. By "reboot", they simply mean that they want take a new tone and direction with the KQ universe.

What's wrong with the tone and direction of the series which it kept pretty dang consistent for 7 games?
If you change the tone and direction, why not just change the name? Why not just invent a new series which fits this wanted tone and direction rather than twisting an already existing set of rules? If it's your own series, and not a series which has been beloved for 30 years, you can make whatever tone and direction you want.

And this is purely talking about a commercial product--the reboot idea Cesar mentioned.

[kindofdoon]

I'm going to opt out of this conversation. It seems to be going in circles.

[scintilla77]

I mean a reboot in such a way that we wouldn't need to revisit the past to please the fans. No Green Isles, evil guys from the past, building up on concepts from some games (Black Cloak Society), etc.

We'd probably have the Daventry family in their current configuration faced with a new problem that they'd have to solve. That's what I mean by a reboot, not hmm, for example the reboot of Nightmare on Elm Street.

I think I see what you mean, Cez...but what do you mean when you say you'd probably do a reboot with "the Daventry family in their current configuration"? Do you mean the way they are after TSL is over (Graham and Valanice middle-aged, Rosella and Alexander 21 years old, Rosella and Edgar married, Alex and Cassima married and living in the Green Isles, etc) or sometime before that?

[KQ5Fan]

I thought Cez explained it quite clearly. I don't get what the trouble is. >_>

By "reboot", they mean that they wouldn't use old locations, old villains and make the game under the assumption that people playing it will have some former knowledge of the characters in it and whatnot. They'd create an entirely new story with an entirely new problem/villain without trying to tie in anything from the previous games, which honestly I would like to see.

[Cez]

I mean a reboot in such a way that we wouldn't need to revisit the past to please the fans. No Green Isles, evil guys from the past, building up on concepts from some games (Black Cloak Society), etc.

We'd probably have the Daventry family in their current configuration faced with a new problem that they'd have to solve. That's what I mean by a reboot, not hmm, for example the reboot of Nightmare on Elm Street.

I think I see what you mean, Cez...but what do you mean when you say you'd probably do a reboot with "the Daventry family in their current configuration"? Do you mean the way they are after TSL is over (Graham and Valanice middle-aged, Rosella and Alexander 21 years old, Rosella and Edgar married, Alex and Cassima married and living in the Green Isles, etc) or sometime before that?

Yeah, most likely at the same point where KQ7 left, which is all honesty the same point where TSL is (except Rosella and Edgar being married or not but that's details really).

[Lambonius]

I thought Cez explained it quite clearly. I don't get what the trouble is. >_>

By "reboot", they mean that they wouldn't use old locations, old villains and make the game under the assumption that people playing it will have some former knowledge of the characters in it and whatnot. They'd create an entirely new story with an entirely new problem/villain without trying to tie in anything from the previous games, which honestly I would like to see.

I think what scintilla is asking is whether or not any new commercial KQ game that the POS team was involved with would consider the events of TSL as canon.

[TheReturnofDMD]

I mean a reboot in such a way that we wouldn't need to revisit the past to please the fans. No Green Isles, evil guys from the past, building up on concepts from some games (Black Cloak Society), etc.

We'd probably have the Daventry family in their current configuration faced with a new problem that they'd have to solve. That's what I mean by a reboot, not hmm, for example the reboot of Nightmare on Elm Street.

I think I see what you mean, Cez...but what do you mean when you say you'd probably do a reboot with "the Daventry family in their current configuration"? Do you mean the way they are after TSL is over (Graham and Valanice middle-aged, Rosella and Alexander 21 years old, Rosella and Edgar married, Alex and Cassima married and living in the Green Isles, etc) or sometime before that?

Yeah, most likely at the same point where KQ7 left, which is all honesty the same point where TSL is (except Rosella and Edgar being married or not but that's details really).

What kind of tone would it have? What kind of direction?
Disney and fairy tales, or teen fantasy?
THAT is the most important question.

[Cez]

In the lines of what Ken Williams said, whoever writes the story style of writing. That's the tone it would have.

[TheReturnofDMD]

In the lines of what Ken Williams said, whoever writes the story style of writing. That's the tone it would have.

If you were writing it (Commercial sequel)?