Author Topic: Episode 2 - CONSTRUCTIVE feedback (No fighting, please!)  (Read 48473 times)

Offline Fierce Deity

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Re: Episode 2 - CONSTRUCTIVE feedback (No fighting, please!)
« Reply #40 on: September 20, 2010, 02:47:40 PM »
it's taken most people longer to beat Episode 2 than it takes to beat some full-length $60 top-of-the-line games these days.  

Heh--now that's definitely an exaggeration.   ;)  It's a reasonable length for an episodic game, but let's not go being unrealistic and start comparing it to a full-length commercial adventure game.

I beat Uncharted, Uncharted 2, Tomb Raider: Legend, Tomb Raider: Underworld, and Metroid:Other M all in less than 6 hours the first time I played them.  The average time for Episode 2 of TSL is around 5, so that's pretty close.

This.

I think it can be said for everybody's experience with these games. Uncharted and Tomb Raider are both linear games, and they don't warrant exploration (unless you really need to get those hidden treasures, so a sparkly new achievement can appear in the upper right corner). So given the linearity of these games, I too can admit that the games can be finished within 6-8 hours. The same can be said for Halo, Gears of War, and Call of Duty. Although their known for their online multiplayer, the single-player campaigns in these games can be finished within 5 hours.

I'll agree that we may be comparing apples to oranges, but Weldon wasn't exactly lying. Most $60 games that are considered "top-of-the-line" don't provide much longevity at all. If you want to compare a game like TSL to Tales of Monkey Island, then you have to consider the vast difference between both companies.
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Offline mataku

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Re: Episode 2 - CONSTRUCTIVE feedback (No fighting, please!)
« Reply #41 on: September 20, 2010, 02:48:50 PM »
i think the narrator should describe what graham is doing more.
for example, when you pick something up, i'd like her to say "Graham picks up a ..." so that i'll know what it is. a few times i picked up things i didn't even know what they were until i looked into the inventory.

Offline snabbott

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Re: Episode 2 - CONSTRUCTIVE feedback (No fighting, please!)
« Reply #42 on: September 20, 2010, 02:51:14 PM »
I used to. Not anymore.

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Offline KatieHal

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Re: Episode 2 - CONSTRUCTIVE feedback (No fighting, please!)
« Reply #43 on: September 20, 2010, 02:52:50 PM »
Sometimes she does; at all times, you should get a good description of what the object is if you use the Eye icon on it before picking it up.

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Offline Jafar

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Re: Episode 2 - CONSTRUCTIVE feedback (No fighting, please!)
« Reply #44 on: September 20, 2010, 03:14:20 PM »
One of the things that disappointed me was the lack of interactivity when using the hand and talk icons.

For example, in KQ6, when you go to the garden in the Isle of Wonder, you have all of these strange things you can talk to, try to touch, or give things to. Most of them actually respond, and at the very least, you get a unique narrator comment. ("The iceberg lettuce gives Alexander the cold shoulder")

Going there in TSL though, there's a lot less you can do there. Trying to talk to the garden creatures just gets a "Graham doesn't want to talk to anything in the garden" message, and you can only really interact with the important objects.

Sure, you can get plenty of descriptions with the eye icon, but after looking at something, my next impulse is to try to touch and talk to it, and I just get "You can't do that" messages.
I guess it's not really a big important part of the game, but it really helps a game feel fleshed out. One of my favorite parts of adventure games is checking out absolutely everything, and it's a shame to see a lot of potential go to waste.

I mean, I can't even click the hand on other people to poke them, or shake their hands, or pinch them, or tap them on the shoulder...it just bugs me, y'know? :P
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Offline daventry

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Re: Episode 2 - CONSTRUCTIVE feedback (No fighting, please!)
« Reply #45 on: September 20, 2010, 03:27:25 PM »
I agree with Jafar, the Game seems More focused on the Story with a Naggy Narrator, instead of having the Player have some Fun and do some Other weird things.  ???

Like i said, stop trying to Squeeze the Player Into the Story by Cutting Scenes that may seem Useless to you guys or have someone in your Head telling you are Insane   :P
« Last Edit: September 20, 2010, 03:44:36 PM by daventry »

Offline Astor

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Re: Episode 2 - CONSTRUCTIVE feedback (No fighting, please!)
« Reply #46 on: September 20, 2010, 03:29:17 PM »
Well, I've really enjoyed the Episodes so far, and I only have one or two minor criticisms  -

* The placement of Cassima's necklace is rather poor. I mean really, lying on the floor? Sadly I can't really think of another place myself

* When I'm on the Isle of Wonder and talking to the ferryman the background yawning from the clams/oysters is quite loud and I miss parts of his dialogue

* The Black Widow seems to have this weird red blob on her throat. Is that intentional?

Apart from these quibbles, this has been a great game. Thankyou team!

Offline wilco64256

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Re: Episode 2 - CONSTRUCTIVE feedback (No fighting, please!)
« Reply #47 on: September 20, 2010, 03:35:05 PM »
I'm pretty sure you can mess with at least the baby's tears and the iceberg lettuce in that scene.  We are also working on increasing the number of possible interactions, just one of those types of extra things we tack into the game as we're going along and a lot of time that could have gone into fun little additions like that went into making changes based on feedback for Episode 1.  I'm hoping that we'll have some time to add lots more little fun elements like that and I think we will.

Daventry what other types of weird stuff would you like to see?  I agree that random extra stuff would be nice but keep in mind that other KQ games didn't really have a whole lot of totally random stuff that didn't have anything to do with plot progression or solving puzzles.
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Offline daventry

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Re: Episode 2 - CONSTRUCTIVE feedback (No fighting, please!)
« Reply #48 on: September 20, 2010, 03:44:09 PM »
You Dont need random stuff to Focus on Puzzles or Story Progressions, Fun ads Longplay and Entertainment to the Game aswell. ;)

Or you could just have the Narrator Constantly tell you:
No, that is Not Important when Looking
No, that is Not helpful when Touching
No, that wont talk back

The Game Quickly becomes Dull and Boring, so a Game like QFG2VGA is How TSL Should be, that Poor Girl would have Allot of Talking to do by then.  :suffer:

I think AGDI is Hiring Voice Actors for QFG2VGA  :P

Offline wilco64256

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Re: Episode 2 - CONSTRUCTIVE feedback (No fighting, please!)
« Reply #49 on: September 20, 2010, 03:54:40 PM »
You Dont need random stuff to Focus on Puzzles or Story Progressions, Fun ads Longplay and Entertainment to the Game aswell. ;)

Or you could just have the Narrator Constantly tell you:
No, that is Not Important when Looking
No, that is Not helpful when Touching
No, that wont talk back

The Game Quickly becomes Dull and Boring, so a Game like QFG2VGA is How TSL Should be, that Poor Girl would have Allot of Talking to do by then.  :suffer:

I think AGDI is Hiring Voice Actors for QFG2VGA  :P

The thing with those black/white interaction results is it rules out being able to do that thing later.  If you tell a player that an object is not helpful they may never think to try it again.  If you say, "Why would Graham want to do that now?" then it still hints that what they're trying may work at a later time or in a different way.  For example, you can show Hassan your scroll to get some direction on where to go, but after you've progressed in the game beyond the tip he would give you, trying to show him the scroll shouldn't still have him give you the same tip.
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Offline Enchantermon

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Re: Episode 2 - CONSTRUCTIVE feedback (No fighting, please!)
« Reply #50 on: September 20, 2010, 04:06:01 PM »
The only thing that I can think of that hasn't already been mentioned is Graham's running animation. Viewed from the side it looks fine, but viewed from the back the leg movements look a little wonky; as if his calves are moving both backwards and towards the inside. The walking animation is wonderful; so much more natural than the original. The mouth movements were much better, pathfinding was mostly great, and I appreciated the "continuous walk" icon. Overall, Episode 2 was a huge improvement, and you all did great. It felt very similar to an Episode of Sam and Max in terms of gameplay.
In fact, my only other complaint is that I haven't found the Suffer yet. :( ;)
So what if I am, huh? Anyways, I work better when I'm drunk. It makes me fearless! If I see a bad guy, I'll just point my sword at him and saaaaaaaaaay, "Hey! Bad guy! You're not s'posed to be here! Go home or I'll stick you with my sword 'til you go, 'Ouch! I'm dead!' Ah-ha-ha!" Ha-ha. *hic* See? Ain't no one gonna be messin' wit' ol', Benny!

Offline daventry

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Re: Episode 2 - CONSTRUCTIVE feedback (No fighting, please!)
« Reply #51 on: September 20, 2010, 04:07:10 PM »
I think on the Isle of Wonder, Graham should go to the Swamp and talk to the Dog Tree with it Barking at Him.

Give the Dog a Bone and have the Tree Eat Graham by Accident: with the Narrator saying: The Dog went Crackers for Graham  :P

Give the Lettuce Babies some Milk

Put Ice in Graham's Pocket and have him do a Dance of Shivers

Talk to the Stick in the Mud and the Rotton Tomato.

Have Graham walk Into the Swamp with him Drowning, then the Narrator says: Ever got that Sinking Feeling you Shouldent Walk there Graham

Offline KatieHal

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Re: Episode 2 - CONSTRUCTIVE feedback (No fighting, please!)
« Reply #52 on: September 20, 2010, 04:08:24 PM »
We aren't going to be adding completely new screens that we haven't already created, I can tell you that with complete certainty.

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Offline Enchantermon

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Re: Episode 2 - CONSTRUCTIVE feedback (No fighting, please!)
« Reply #53 on: September 20, 2010, 04:08:55 PM »
Give the Lettuce Babies some Milk
They're not Lettuce Babies, they're Baby's Tears. ;)
So what if I am, huh? Anyways, I work better when I'm drunk. It makes me fearless! If I see a bad guy, I'll just point my sword at him and saaaaaaaaaay, "Hey! Bad guy! You're not s'posed to be here! Go home or I'll stick you with my sword 'til you go, 'Ouch! I'm dead!' Ah-ha-ha!" Ha-ha. *hic* See? Ain't no one gonna be messin' wit' ol', Benny!

Offline daventry

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Re: Episode 2 - CONSTRUCTIVE feedback (No fighting, please!)
« Reply #54 on: September 20, 2010, 04:15:35 PM »
We aren't going to be adding completely new screens that we haven't already created, I can tell you that with complete certainty.
Should've thought about it when making TSL, you cant just Force the Story with Limited Fun and having 5 Episodes on 1 Location (The Green Isles) while Visiting New Places and yet we keep coming Back.   :P
« Last Edit: September 20, 2010, 04:28:56 PM by daventry »

Offline wilco64256

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Re: Episode 2 - CONSTRUCTIVE feedback (No fighting, please!)
« Reply #55 on: September 20, 2010, 04:16:49 PM »
Yeah if there's a scene that used to be in KQ6 that's not in TSL don't expect to see it suddenly appear later.

And the fun is only as limited as you make it - how much could you accomplish in the first 25% of any King's Quest game?
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Offline daventry

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Re: Episode 2 - CONSTRUCTIVE feedback (No fighting, please!)
« Reply #56 on: September 20, 2010, 04:21:35 PM »
Good Point, i still say add some Animation to the Ice in Graham's Pants while making him Dance with Shivers  ;D

Give one of the Dog Guards a Bone and have them Beg for it.  :suffer:
« Last Edit: September 20, 2010, 04:28:28 PM by daventry »

Offline snabbott

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Re: Episode 2 - CONSTRUCTIVE feedback (No fighting, please!)
« Reply #57 on: September 20, 2010, 04:34:37 PM »
Should've thought about it when making TSL, you cant just Force the Story with Limited Fun and having 6 Episodes on 1 Location (The Green Isles) while Visiting New Places and yet we keep coming Back.   :P
I don't quite understand that sentence. Anyway, don't you mean 5 episodes?

(Posted on: September 20, 2010, 05:26:57 PM)


Give one of the Dog Guards a Bone and have them Beg for it.  :suffer:
Ok, while I'm quite sure that one's not going to happen, it is kind of amusing.

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Offline daventry

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Re: Episode 2 - CONSTRUCTIVE feedback (No fighting, please!)
« Reply #58 on: September 20, 2010, 04:38:03 PM »
I mean, that in Ep3 when we go to the Isle of the Beast, we wont jump through Hot Water to First Cool it Down with some Ice or Avoid the Archer, we will probably just Arrive at the Isle and end up right Inside the Beast Castle.

We arent even Exploring the Isle of the Mist, everything is Cutscenes or Cut Out Places.

Offline Cez

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Re: Episode 2 - CONSTRUCTIVE feedback (No fighting, please!)
« Reply #59 on: September 20, 2010, 04:40:24 PM »
who said we are going to the Isle of the Beast in ep3. Did you see the preview video of Ep3? That should give you a good idea of what Isle is the main new thing of the next episode.


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