Episode 2 - CONSTRUCTIVE feedback (No fighting, please!)

[snabbott]

I hope this isn't a bad idea.

I believe the rest of the team would agree with me on this. We welcome construcitve criticism (but not personal attacks or pointless arguing).

A few things to keep in mind:

1. Nobody is calling this an official King's Quest sequel. This is the vision of a group of people who have worked very hard to bring this to you. We hope you like it, but we also realize that we will never please everyone.

2. There are a lot of things that just can't be changed at this point. Even if we agree that you have a good idea, chances are that it won't be implemented. However, we were able to incorporate a few small suggestions regarding Episode 1, so you never know.

3. ABSOLUTELY NO personal attacks against the team or other forum members. Let's keep it polite, ok? I don't want the moderators to have to lock this thread.

[kindofdoon]

Good thread idea, good preface. My polite suggestions:

1. the ability to explore other islands even if you can't achieve anything there (ie. exploring IoB in Episodes 1-2). Maybe this could be done via a patch.

2. less sarcasm/mocking from the narrator

3. less facial closeups during conversation

4. middle-click to automatically return to walk icon

I have attempted to give workable criticism. These are my only gripes with an otherwise perfect game.

[MangoMercury]

I think it's a great idea to have a constructive feedback thread, definitely.  After what happened with the other thread (which shows why people shouldn't just "hate"), it's good to have an objective thread.

The only couple of things that I wasn't overly sure on was the usage of the word "sexy" in Episode 2 - it felt a bit "out of character" for a King's Quest game, even if the line came from the Black Widow.  That, and the whole Roberta Easter Egg sounded kind of sarcastic (which ties in with Mister Doon's second point), which could just be my interpretation, but I hope Roberta will take it the right way if she sees it.  I wouldn't want the creator of King's Quest to no longer support TSL.

Otherwise, this game is absolutely great so far; Episode 2 absolutely blew me away, and I really cannot wait until Episode 3 (especially if it explains why the character at the end of Episode 2 is the way they are now).

[kindofdoon]

I did like the Roberta easter egg, but I had to watch it twice because I didn't really get it the first time - which shows that it could be misunderstood.

[atec123]

I did like the Roberta easter egg, but I had to watch it twice because I didn't really get it the first time - which shows that it could be misunderstood.

ZOMG!  EESTUR EGG?  WARE?

I haven't found it!

oh and great thread idea.  nothing to contribute ATM though.

[Big C from Cauney island]

Its so hard to judge a full game when the full hasn't been released.  As far as episode 2 and critique, the only thing that comes to mind is more complicated puzzles. I talked about this somewhere else as well.  The puzzles were OK, I'm in this more for the story. But having something BIG like cliffs of logic, that one huge stump. But again, I havent played future episodes, and with episodic release you cant see the full game. For all I know there is more waiting. Plus, when you play the game as a whole, it could make a huge difference.

Again, episode 2 did have puzzles, and I did get stumped at isle of wonder for a while and some with the sea nymphs.  As far as episode 2 gos, I would say that the coin bag is used a lot. I really wouldn't use it any more in future episodes. What would be cool is to find another way to get items that would usually require gold, almost more into trading like in the pawn shop, or just some other way. Maybe having the vendors sending you on miniquests, indirectly of course. They might mention something in conversation about something they want, then you got to go figure out were and how to get it. This could lead to this separate adventures that really add to depth.

  Also, Cassimas necklace and the water shooter placement seemed kind of random.  I would have put the water shooter in a cabinet, in the kitchen perhaps, just a way to make me search for it.  And Cassimas necklace, I probably would have made it Valanices. Since she was so distraught, it could have fallen off her in her madness and been left maybe outside the room. Then graham could have wondered "Valanices earring? hmmm.." and that would set it up better. Then the player would think what happened to Valanice?  It is more believable in this way then cassima leaving a full necklace on the ground,considering it wasnt there in the first episode.    

   The Isle of wonder gate was a good puzzle. I got stumped for a while on that. It was kind of a shout out to the witch in KQ5 and the emeralds. Very nicely done.  With the sea nymphs, maybe there could have been a seen where they give you the ability to breathe underwater and you go search for the bag. Again, a miniquest, multi-step problem, kind of like lollote in kq4 sending you out.

In total, I loved it. I actually wrote a review in another thread. Episode 2 definitely stepped it up a notch. The changes made did make a huge difference. Never had problems in general, but wow. It's good.

I am happy to contribute to this project in my own way, and I think feedback is essential for any project.
Man, now I've got half a million ideas in my head...... This was really the only thing close to a criticism I could give, because I was blown away by the atmosphere of the game, it was really brought alive.

So yea, in conclusion, that's it.  More of the multi-step puzzles or mini-quests. But again, you guys have played the FULL game. I have not. For all I know, this is all waiting around the corner.

[kindofdoon]

Also, Cassimas necklace and the water shooter placement seemed kind of random.  I would have put the water shooter in a cabinet, in the kitchen perhaps, just a way to make me search for it...The Isle of wonder gate was a good puzzle. I got stumped for a while on that. It was kind of a shout out to the witch in KQ5 and the emeralds...In total, I loved it.

I agree with everything here. I was thinking that the spray bottle could've been in the kitchen, where the serving women reside in KQVI.

[KatieHal]

Re: doon's first point: I said somewhere else, I forget where, but when we split the episodes we built each around a particular island as a kind of theme to each of them. This episode was the Isle of Wonder, for example. As more islands open up, they stay open, so you will get to do more wandering as the game progresses.

[snabbott]

Good thread idea, good preface. My polite suggestions:

1. the ability to explore other islands even if you can't achieve anything there (ie. exploring IoB in Episodes 1-2). Maybe this could be done via a patch.

Yeah, like Katie said, this was needed to keep the episodes more focused. If you could explore everywhere, it would leave that much less for the other episodes. Really, I view this as a necessary evil of the episodic release format. When we first started testing, the game was a lot more open. However, I think without the episodic format, the game may never have been released - certainly not this soon.

I kind of agree about the placement of the necklace. It was originally somewhere else that you can't go in Episode 2. I think the idea is that Cassima is also pretty distraught, though.

Spoiler (mouse over to reveal):

She was looking at the portrait of her and Alexander, was overcome with grief, and dropped the necklace without noticing.

The placement of the sprayer was originally a lot more random. It at least makes sense where it is.

[Sousuke]

I agree with most of the suggestions stated so far, as you'll see below. The music is very well done. It's really neat to see a full 3D KQ that's true to the 1-6 style, not MoE. Some stuff I noticed:

Maybe it's my video card but I noticed a couple graphics glitches in the town square area. One which looked like the ground and one of the buildings were too close to each other, so it was kind of a fuzzy effect of both textures trying to show at the same time. It looks like a problem I had back when I made UT levels and wanted to bury one brush into another but the adjacent surfaces were too close, if so that's easy to fix. The other thing I noticed was a sky blue area on the ground between/behind Ali's books and the wall.

I was a little disappointed that the pile of books area that bookworm used to be in, and the swamp with bump on a log and stick in the mud weren't in the game. I can understand that you guys had to cut a lot of stuff from the game though and maybe you couldn't put those two screens in since it would have been a lot of dev time. That leads to the next point.

It was great to go into chessboard land, but we only saw two screens. I really wanted to explore that huge castle that we saw on the first screen. Looking at this from a dev perspective, I can understand why it wasn't in the game. If you guys had had the time it would have been a great thing for additional puzzles/things for the player to do though. Just have had some of the castle open, maybe. I think that the second screen where you find the cabinet of stuff should have been designed so it looks like you're right at the castle grounds or something, since the first screen you're clearly walking towards the castle. Maybe a little area where Graham has to sneak by some guards on the castle walls without being seen. As it looks right now, that second screen doesn't look like it's near a castle so for continuity purposes it might look good to put some things in the background that make it look more like that?

For the puzzles, the one with the gate was really clever and I enjoyed it. I agree with the others that item placement could have been better for the spray bottle and necklace. They had good suggestions on where they might be relocated. The bag of coins, while making logical sense, was used too much. The sea nymphs part, I thought was too easy as they basically did everything for you and you didn't have to get some other item/solve some puzzle for them to help you. I think in a KQ game, you probably would have been sent off to fetch a bunch of other things or solve a puzzle and they'd help you once you did so.

Seeing the land of the Green Isles again in 3D is nice, but like others stated, I'd like to see more original areas that weren't in KQ6, and not in the LOTGI (like those KQ7 Etheria screenshots from years ago). Maybe there are more of these in the future episodes.

Don't take this as I hated the game or anything, I know it could be interpreted as a bunch of negative points, I really enjoyed playing it actually. It's more of a wishlist.

[koko_99_2001]

When Erik & I played the game a couple days ago, we saw the spray bottle on the ground. Erik's first verbal response was "why is that there?" and then said right as he finished saying that, he said "oh, I guess it was left there by whoever was watering the plants." So it did feel kinda natural to us.

[KatieHal]

Actually, I'm fairly certain if you use the Eye on the bottle, it says as much, too. (before picking it up)

[daventry]

The More i see and Play Ep1 & Ep2 it feels like the Whole Game is on the Green Isles, i would Assume by Chapter 2 we would go to the Isle of the Beast and then Quart way Into Ep3 we are Done with the Green Isles and we go to New Lands in Each Chapter.

There should be More Puzzles with Less Cutscenes, what People wants (Nymphs) should be taken as a Quest to get it Ourselves.

We Understand the work you guys do is Difficult and Long, but Please Please make Episode 3 Longer and Harder as if Ep1 & Ep2 Combined

Ep1 feels like the Last Chapter of Tales of Monkey Island where at the End of the Game we get the Feeling from you guys (like what the Heck we are Done with the Chapters anyway, so lets just make up a Short Pointless Ending) TSL Feels Shortend and Rushed, like lets just get it Over With so we can Continue with the Next Chapter.

These Small Places you guys Cut Out (Side of Castle - House of Beauty - Swamp and maybe Lots More) leave them so we can Explore, all you guys do is Squeeze us in a Narrow Passage with 1 Never Before seen Market that wasent in KQ6 and Push the Player to the Next Chapter as Quick as Possible.

Please Guys, you do an AWSOME JOB, but Dont push us to the Next Chapter, Make Ep1 Longer by putting Half of Ep2 in it and then put the Isle of the Beast in Ep2 so in Ep3 we can Leave the Green Isles for Good.

If you guys can put the Four Winds in the Game, then put in Ep1 a Movie like thing about the Previous KQ Games for New Comers to Understand as to what is going on, all we see is some Wedding about the Royal Family and then the Game Starts as if the New Generation is supposed to Understand as to what is going on.

[wilco64256]

There's really nothing we can do at this point to make Episode 1 longer.  We're working on Episode 3 now and aren't going to revisit anything in Episodes 1 or 2 unless there's a serious problem that comes up that we need to address with a patch of some kind.

[daventry]

If you guys had 8 Years with Two C&D, why dident you guys keep On working with TSL to Make Ep1 Longer, what were these Scenes and Places and Stories about that got Cut Out and Why. 

Remember, 8 Years with a Short Ep1, what in Heavens Name was so Big and Pointless that Needed to be Shortend with 80% Cutscenes. 

The Reason People Complained about Ep1 and its Shortness in asking about Ep2, now i Dont care about Ep3 since im Satisfied to Wait 3 Months for it, so Please make Ep3 More Challenging and let us Leave the Green Isles whle maybe with a Patch and a Surprise, Ep1 - Ep2 is Longer with More Scenes. 

[atec123]

If you guys had 8 Years with Two C&D, why dident you guys keep On working with TSL to Make Ep1 Longer, what were these Scenes and Places and Stories about that got Cut Out and Why. 

Remember, 8 Years with a Short Ep1, what in Heavens Name was so Big and Pointless that Needed to be Shortend with 80% Cutscenes. 

The Reason People Complained about Ep1 and its Shortness in asking about Ep2, now i Dont care about Ep3 since im Satisfied to Wait 3 Months for it, so Please make Ep3 More Challenging and let us Leave the Green Isles whle maybe with a Patch and a Surprise, Ep1 - Ep2 is Longer with More Scenes. 

the original plan wasn't to have 5 episodes.  I think the total 5 episodes is only a third of the original plan.  I think part 1 would be episodes 1-5, so it wouldn't have seemed so short back then.

[daventry]

I think they talked about 9 Chapters, so maybe they could Push an Episode 6. 

I Assumed we would Directly Start from Ep1 to Ep2, why am i still Selecting Episodes. 

[snabbott]

Yeah. A lot of these are things we discussed as a team. Unfortunately, for the most part, the content is what it is. It would take way too long to add some of these things. I don't think people realize how much work it is to create all of these scenes, characters, etc. The team are already doing a HUGE amount of work to add the content that is needed to make this a complete story. Believe me, you would not be happy with the game as it was - chapter 2 (~Episodes 2-5) pretty much ended in a cliffhanger that would never have been resolved.

[atec123]

I Assumed we would Directly Start from Ep1 to Ep2, why am i still Selecting Episodes

Good point.  it would be better to go straight into episode 2.  or maybe have a box that comes up (before the credits even start) to ask if you want to continue to episode 2.  then it would keep going like that on all the episodes you have and show the credits at the end.

[KatieHal]

A quicker transition from one episode to the next when you have a number of them installed is one thing we're looking at implementing, actually. This process has only just begun, though, so I have no concept of how difficult or easy it may be and what the likelihood of it happening is; but, we are looking into it.