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Episode 2 - CONSTRUCTIVE feedback (No fighting, please!)

Started by snabbott, September 20, 2010, 09:39:50 AM

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KatieHal

The only thing in the VGA remakes that is NOT in TSL is the original material in AGDI's KQ2+ game. The VGA remakes of 1 and 3 (by AGDI and IA respectively) are pretty straightforward 1-to-1 remakes of the originals, with a few small exceptions.

The only additional material in the KQ3 VGA game that I can think of is that they establish the Manannan-Mordack relationship, and they stretch out the time period between Alex's return and Graham's heart attack.

In any case--let's get back on topic, shall we? :)

Katie Hallahan
~Designer, PR Director~

"Change is the constant, the signal for rebirth, the egg of the phoenix." Christina Baldwin

I have a blog!

jttsai

Public health/parenting question -- why would Graham give taffy to a kid that was fishing for his fishing pole? If I were that kid's parent I'd be super pissed at giving up a tool that could bring ongoing sustenance to the family that was hungry for some empty calories and cavities for the kid. And when I tried to give a gold coin for the fishing pole, I was told that Graham wasn't that generous -- but he'll buy taffy instead?

wilco64256

Quote from: jttsai on September 22, 2010, 05:46:32 PM
Public health/parenting question -- why would Graham give taffy to a kid that was fishing for his fishing pole? If I were that kid's parent I'd be super pissed at giving up a tool that could bring ongoing sustenance to the family that was hungry for some empty calories and cavities for the kid. And when I tried to give a gold coin for the fishing pole, I was told that Graham wasn't that generous -- but he'll buy taffy instead?

I won't spoil any future game events for you but you make an excellent point. :)
Weldon Hathaway

Melook

Signature's are over-rated!

kindofdoon

You'll probably have to get him a toothbrush in Episode 3 because of your irresponsibility in Episode 2.

Daniel Dichter, Production/PR
daniel.dichter@postudios.com

wilco64256

Weldon Hathaway

KQ5Fan

@ That new review that was just posted: I don't think that guy has played a King's Quest game recently. They're filled with cheesy dialogue. That's why it didn't bother me that there was so much in episode 2, it's what I was expecting.

Fierce Deity

Freudian Slip - "When you say one thing, but mean your mother."

kyranthia

I have to admit, at times I find myself judging the game from a fan perspective and not always objectively.  It's like when a beloved book gets made into a movie, a fan will notice what was omitted/changed, etc.  It's not a fair perspective to look at the games and although I know this, I can't help it.

That said, while I will notice these things, I definitely will not consider any changes to be a game changer in not wanting to see this game in its entirety.  I really appreciate the effort you put in to putting this game out there for us fans.  I've been engaged in the storyline and can't wait to see what happens next.  :)

Lambonius

Quote from: KQ5Fan on September 22, 2010, 06:45:01 PM
@ That new review that was just posted: I don't think that guy has played a King's Quest game recently. They're filled with cheesy dialogue. That's why it didn't bother me that there was so much in episode 2, it's what I was expecting.

There's a difference between cheesy dialogue and sap so thick you have to paddle through it in a canoe.   ;D

wilco64256

Quote from: Lambonius on September 22, 2010, 08:29:45 PM
Quote from: KQ5Fan on September 22, 2010, 06:45:01 PM
@ That new review that was just posted: I don't think that guy has played a King's Quest game recently. They're filled with cheesy dialogue. That's why it didn't bother me that there was so much in episode 2, it's what I was expecting.

There's a difference between cheesy dialogue and sap so thick you have to paddle through it in a canoe.   ;D

Ew, gross mental image.  If you're in a pool of sap that significant I think you have far more serious problems than just paddling :P
Weldon Hathaway

Lambonius

Quote from: wilco64256 on September 22, 2010, 08:39:01 PM
Quote from: Lambonius on September 22, 2010, 08:29:45 PM
Quote from: KQ5Fan on September 22, 2010, 06:45:01 PM
@ That new review that was just posted: I don't think that guy has played a King's Quest game recently. They're filled with cheesy dialogue. That's why it didn't bother me that there was so much in episode 2, it's what I was expecting.

There's a difference between cheesy dialogue and sap so thick you have to paddle through it in a canoe.   ;D

Ew, gross mental image.  If you're in a pool of sap that significant I think you have far more serious problems than just paddling :P

Lol... :suffer:

KQ5Fan

Quote from: Lambonius on September 22, 2010, 08:29:45 PM
There's a difference between cheesy dialogue and sap so thick you have to paddle through it in a canoe.   ;D

What was the cheesy dialogue? Between Graham and Edgar? Because that's pretty standard for a KQ game. Characters that are in close relation to each other will generally have much sappier dialogue.

Did you hear Cassima and Alexander talk in KQ6? That was even worse.

Lambonius

#153
Quote from: KQ5Fan on September 22, 2010, 11:11:38 PM
Quote from: Lambonius on September 22, 2010, 08:29:45 PM
There's a difference between cheesy dialogue and sap so thick you have to paddle through it in a canoe.   ;D

What was the cheesy dialogue? Between Graham and Edgar? Because that's pretty standard for a KQ game. Characters that are in close relation to each other will generally have much sappier dialogue.

Did you hear Cassima and Alexander talk in KQ6? That was even worse.

Have you ever had a conversation with your father-in-law about your feelings?  It's totally unrealistic.  Graham and Edgar barely know each other!

And I heartily disagree that ANY of the dialogue from KQ6 is worse than what's on display here.  For one, it's more well-written from a purely stylistic standpoint, and secondly, the entire game is a love story fairy tale--it perfectly fits the whole tone.  

Also, think about WHEN this happened in the storyline of the game.  It was right near the end, after you had spent the entire game trying to reach her, and you knew full well that Alexander was pining for her for the duration of his months-long journey.  It was a cathartic moment that had been built up for the ENTIRE GAME.  Had it happened right at the beginning--like say, Alex walked in and instead of being greeted by Alhazared, he went up and had that conversation with Cassima, then yes, I would agree that it was out-of-place and awkward.

Graham and Edgar's conversation, on the other hand, in addition to its sappiness, contradicts the whole sense of urgency in Graham's quest.  In the middle of this urgent mission to save his children, who are cursed and may be in mortal danger, Graham sits down for 10+ minutes of game time to spew gooey man-feelings all over Edgar, and vice versa.  Lol.  Sorry--I don't buy it.  ;D

wilco64256

Graham and Edgar have actually spent quite a bit of time together, based on the conversation they have it seems that Edgar has actually been to Graham's castle and stayed there with the family on several occasions, so I don't know that I'd say they hardly know each other.

And yes, Graham's quest is urgent, but Edgar is also a direct eyewitness to the attack on Rosella and he himself has experienced a good deal of dark magic so he may have information that is useful.

But then again, this entire conversation is totally optional as well, it just adds to the character development and storyline if that's what you're looking for.  A bit sappy, sure.
Weldon Hathaway

Lambonius

Lol--fair enough.  I guess I can't complain TOO much since it IS totally optional.  hehe.  ;D

KQ5Fan

I think that you also need to take into consideration when the conversation between Graham and Edgar happens in the storyline of the game and how that would affect the mood between the two. Edgar was literally standing right next to Rosella when the evil wizard came out of nowhere and attacked her, and, like Graham, couldn't do anything about it.

I think that's one of the problems with episodic release, you can't really get a complete feel of everything that's going on in the game. It would also make sense why I believed it wasn't overly sappy and a lot of people do - I played episode 1 directly before playing episode 2 so I could refresh myself.

madhattter

Hi.  Just finished Ep. 2!  Thanks!  Had fun!

A couple of things off the top of my head:

A gameplay cause for concern is that some of the narrations are pointedly misleading...
[spoiler]1) "Graham doesn't want to talk to any of these plants".  If I trusted that, I would be stuck.
2) "That won't work.  Graham NEEDS A KEY to get [in the cabinet]."  Again, false.  This instruction almost kept me from doing the right thing (which I had already previously decided to try next); luckily I chose to disobey.
3) (this one not a blocker) "It says to use your head, but maybe a 'hand' would work."  Well, if you have a hand in your inventory, you're going to think this means to use the hand that's in your inventory.  So you try, and it tells you "Who taught you that logic, Graham?"  You did, narrator... you did.
[/spoiler]
Not game breakers, but this type of thing can get players stuck when they wouldn't have been otherwise.

I for one was very happy with Graham's run cycle.  Looked great to me.

Short Narrations are still sometimes 4-5 sentences for objects that are completely game irrelevant.  (1 sentence would suffice for me).

Thanks! Can't wait for Episode 3!



shadyparadox

A few things I noticed, but they're really just beta testing issues:

1) If I have the narrator's voice turned off, then I don't want her reading the death messages aloud either.
2) Clicking the Eye icon on the islands on the map gets the subtitle "Graham: Isle of ____" but there is no voice heard here.
3) The pathfinding is improved, but it's still pretty bad around the pawn shop. Thank goodness for the auto-snap feature when he gets stuck on the stairs, because it happens all the time. Just as one example, click the Hand icon on the invisible ink pot, then on the pawn shop door or bell. He gets stuck every time.

KQ5Fan

In regard to the short narration thing someone said above - the one where Graham sits down on something and the narrator yells at him could easily be cut down to one line.