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Episode 2 - CONSTRUCTIVE feedback (No fighting, please!)

Started by snabbott, September 20, 2010, 09:39:50 AM

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juss

Just wanted to take a second to say thanks so much for all of the time, effort and energy you've put into making this game.  I finished playing episode 2 yesterday (unfortunately the fial cut scene kept crashing on me so I'll have to wait for a youtube version....) and its safe to say I had an absolute blast.  The game is on the whole beautifully put together and very true to the look and feel of a King's Quest game, whilst also bringing something to the table.  I lvoed especially the attention that you're paying to narrative detail and am more than happy to stop adventuring for ten minutes whilst we get dialogue and background story that flesh out the characters and the world as this is what I'm really there for.  I felt like I was playing the Longest Journey again in some ways....

If I had a criticism I would have to say that some of the puzzles don't reward your effort.  For instance, you spend more time trying to get into Chesboardland and then once you're in there, you're out there.  You spend time looking for the Sea Nymphs and once you've found them there's no pay off.  I guess maybe that was the trade off was the depth you added to the overall storyline which is extremely satisfying, but I think puzzle wise and adventure game needs lead-in puzzles and then scenarios that reward your work on those puzzles.  I was expecting to meet the Queens in chessboardland or go underwater with the sea nymphs or something.

Such a small criticism though, really.  This is King's Quest, this is free, I spent an awesome afternoon playing it.  Thank you very much.  Absolutely can't wait until episode 3....

Lambonius

Yeah, that's a good point.  I also felt like Chessboard land was particularly underwhelming.  The transition from the guillotine screen to the inner courtyard/chessboard is awkward, and it seems really strange that Graham wouldn't run into any guards or any characters at all once he got past the two knights.  Where was everyone else?  If humans are so specifically not allowed in Chessboard land, how in the world was Graham able to get to that central area of the castle so easily without encountering ANY opposition at all??  I mean, from a purely narrative standpoint, you set up this great "uh oh" moment with the guillotine being there--it makes you think that you're going to have to figure out a way to make sure Graham is able to keep his head when dealing with the Queens.  But then you go the castle, and BAM, you're right in the central courtyard, which just randomly happens to contain a cabinet with the exact item you need.  Did you guys have a more involved sequence planned for that area that ended up getting cut or something?  Because it seems to me like part of the story was blatantly missing there.

wilco64256

Quote from: Lambonius on September 23, 2010, 10:29:04 AM
Yeah, that's a good point.  I also felt like Chessboard land was particularly underwhelming.  The transition from the guillotine screen to the inner courtyard/chessboard is awkward, and it seems really strange that Graham wouldn't run into any guards or any characters at all once he got past the two knights.  Where was everyone else?  If humans are so specifically not allowed in Chessboard land, how in the world was Graham able to get to that central area of the castle so easily without encountering ANY opposition at all??  I mean, from a purely narrative standpoint, you set up this great "uh oh" moment with the guillotine being there--it makes you think that you're going to have to figure out a way to make sure Graham is able to keep his head when dealing with the Queens.  But then you go the castle, and BAM, you're right in the central courtyard, which just randomly happens to contain a cabinet with the exact item you need.  Did you guys have a more involved sequence planned for that area that ended up getting cut or something?  Because it seems to me like part of the story was blatantly missing there.

The part you're missing is on one of the newspaper articles at the Four Winds Office.  Place seems a bit ghost-townish because everybody's out looking for someone who's missing.  And this won't be your only visit.
Weldon Hathaway

Fierce Deity

Quote from: wilco64256 on September 23, 2010, 10:33:28 AM
Quote from: Lambonius on September 23, 2010, 10:29:04 AM
Yeah, that's a good point.  I also felt like Chessboard land was particularly underwhelming.  The transition from the guillotine screen to the inner courtyard/chessboard is awkward, and it seems really strange that Graham wouldn't run into any guards or any characters at all once he got past the two knights.  Where was everyone else?  If humans are so specifically not allowed in Chessboard land, how in the world was Graham able to get to that central area of the castle so easily without encountering ANY opposition at all??  I mean, from a purely narrative standpoint, you set up this great "uh oh" moment with the guillotine being there--it makes you think that you're going to have to figure out a way to make sure Graham is able to keep his head when dealing with the Queens.  But then you go the castle, and BAM, you're right in the central courtyard, which just randomly happens to contain a cabinet with the exact item you need.  Did you guys have a more involved sequence planned for that area that ended up getting cut or something?  Because it seems to me like part of the story was blatantly missing there.

The part you're missing is on one of the newspaper articles at the Four Winds Office.  Place seems a bit ghost-townish because everybody's out looking for someone who's missing.  And this won't be your only visit.

They did say that the White King had gone missing. Is that the one everybody is looking for?
Freudian Slip - "When you say one thing, but mean your mother."

KatieHal

Actually, Weldon, if you're talking about the article I'm thinking of, it's not on the Four Winds board in this episode. Though yes, the knights did say something about the White King.... :)

Plus, re: Chessboard Castle gates and no opposition--they already had, as preventative measures,

[spoiler]a gate that was locked up with a key that was hidden behind two deadly traps and a bridge guarded by their knights whom you could only get past by being invisible. I'd say by the time you get to the Royal Chessboard, they're figuring no could possibly have gotten inside who wasn't already supposed to be there![/spoiler]

Katie Hallahan
~Designer, PR Director~

"Change is the constant, the signal for rebirth, the egg of the phoenix." Christina Baldwin

I have a blog!

Lambonius

But what was the cabinet doing right there in the middle of the chessboard courtyard?  It just seems a little too convenient to me.  :)

wilco64256

Quote from: Lambonius on September 23, 2010, 10:54:17 AM
But what was the cabinet doing right there in the middle of the chessboard courtyard?  It just seems a little too convenient to me.  :)

The courtyard is where they hold their best events, makes a good deal of sense to have a trophy case there.
Weldon Hathaway

Lambonius

Quote from: wilco64256 on September 23, 2010, 10:55:44 AM
Quote from: Lambonius on September 23, 2010, 10:54:17 AM
But what was the cabinet doing right there in the middle of the chessboard courtyard?  It just seems a little too convenient to me.  :)

The courtyard is where they hold their best events, makes a good deal of sense to have a trophy case there.

No it doesn't.  Do high schools and colleges keep their trophy cases right on the sidelines of the football field?  :)

KatieHal

Again I find myself compelled to say: man, you just really love arguing, don't you, Lamb? :)

Katie Hallahan
~Designer, PR Director~

"Change is the constant, the signal for rebirth, the egg of the phoenix." Christina Baldwin

I have a blog!

Lambonius

Quote from: KatieHal on September 23, 2010, 11:00:10 AM
Again I find myself compelled to say: man, you just really love arguing, don't you, Lamb? :)

Heh...it's how I keep myself entertained.  ;)  As long as the arguments stay friendly, I don't see the harm.  :)

KatieHal

Haha, fair enough. ;)

In that case, remember who we're talking about--those two queens LOVE showing each other up, why wouldn't they have those trophies right out there where they can brag about them while they're playing new chess games? :)

Katie Hallahan
~Designer, PR Director~

"Change is the constant, the signal for rebirth, the egg of the phoenix." Christina Baldwin

I have a blog!

wilco64256

Quote from: Lambonius on September 23, 2010, 10:56:59 AM
Quote from: wilco64256 on September 23, 2010, 10:55:44 AM
Quote from: Lambonius on September 23, 2010, 10:54:17 AM
But what was the cabinet doing right there in the middle of the chessboard courtyard?  It just seems a little too convenient to me.  :)

The courtyard is where they hold their best events, makes a good deal of sense to have a trophy case there.

No it doesn't.  Do high schools and colleges keep their trophy cases right on the sidelines of the football field?  :)

Not outdoors no because the weather here is terrible a lot of the time, but most of them have trophy display cases right in the gym where everybody can see them as they come and go from basketball games or whatever.
Weldon Hathaway

Lambonius

Quote from: KatieHal on September 23, 2010, 11:08:15 AM
Haha, fair enough. ;)

In that case, remember who we're talking about--those two queens LOVE showing each other up, why wouldn't they have those trophies right out there where they can brag about them while they're playing new chess games? :)

Hmm...this actually does make sense.  But then maybe there should have been TWO trophy cases, one red, one white...hmmmm?  ;)

wilco64256

Quote from: Lambonius on September 23, 2010, 11:17:45 AM
Quote from: KatieHal on September 23, 2010, 11:08:15 AM
Haha, fair enough. ;)

In that case, remember who we're talking about--those two queens LOVE showing each other up, why wouldn't they have those trophies right out there where they can brag about them while they're playing new chess games? :)

Hmm...this actually does make sense.  But then maybe there should have been TWO trophy cases, one red, one white...hmmmm?  ;)

There is, that's what the camera's connected to ;)
Weldon Hathaway

KatieHal

Haha, I like to imagine they tried, but they each kept making theirs larger than the other one until they both fell over and were destroyed.  ;D LOL, although Weldon's answer is also fun!

In other news, I'm excited for when you guys get to meet the Queens again!

Katie Hallahan
~Designer, PR Director~

"Change is the constant, the signal for rebirth, the egg of the phoenix." Christina Baldwin

I have a blog!

Lambonius


Midnightvalkyrie

Hello team and everyone else reading here.
I've been a lurker of these forums since I first heard about the project but finally felt I had to get something off my chest.

Like some others writing in these forums, I was somewhat disappointed after episode 1 considering the few puzzles included in this. Then I read criticism of episode 2, also regarding a lack of puzzles, and I adjusted my expectations accordingly.

I've now played through episode 2, and while I would agree that it is not heave on puzzles, one impression remains, and I have to express it:

I am absolutely stunned and awed at the quality of this game. It's a fan game, and though I realize many (if not most) of the people involved are professionally occupied in the game industry, I still have no words to express my admiration and gratitude for what you have done with this franchise.

The graphics are beautiful, the voiceacting just hits the mark, the puzzles have the right level of difficulty - and last but not least, the storytelling and backstory added to the current game is so true to the original games that it ensures that this game is a very worthy sequel to what's gone before.

Sure, I could nitpick and mention things that don't, in my opinion, fit in - but it really would be nitpicking.

Since I first heard of this project I waited patiently (well, sort of) and you really haven't let me down. I had no idea fans could create something like this. Thank you and congratulations.

Finally, I have to highlight two things from episode 2:

Graham's meeting with Hole in the Wall: Sooo cute and hilarious.
Your reference to the Gabriel Knight games - I am a huuuuuge fan of those, so thank you for plugging them! (Hopefully someday we will get a sequel to those games too).

KatieHal

Thank you so much Midnightvalkyrie! We're thrilled that people are enjoying it so much. :) And welcome to the forums!

Katie Hallahan
~Designer, PR Director~

"Change is the constant, the signal for rebirth, the egg of the phoenix." Christina Baldwin

I have a blog!

snabbott

I just wanted to mention that I'm really pleased that people have kept the discussions in this thread so civil! :pleased: I wasn't sure what to expect when I created it. Thanks, everyone! :D

Steve Abbott | Beta Tester | The Silver Lining

KQ5Fan

Were we actually just arguing about why something doesn't make logical sense on the ISLE OF WONDER? ^

O_O