Author Topic: Death traps with no warning?  (Read 17491 times)

Offline Ronca

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Re: Death traps with no warning?
« Reply #80 on: September 29, 2010, 11:24:52 PM »
I don´t see the problem with instant deaths... if you arent ready for them and save really often, I dare to say you arent a real King Quest player! Besides, part of enjoying this series has always been to fall in some of the traps.


PD: You died clicking at the Black widow? That was a KQ6 classic

Offline Jethro McCrazy

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Re: Death traps with no warning?
« Reply #81 on: September 30, 2010, 01:34:07 AM »
KQ5 just had SO many WTF solutions. Honey and emeralds to lure out elves to escape the forest? Elves we'd never seen or heard of, much less knew what they liked to collect? Wha?? Cheese will turn on the wand machine? Yetis destroyed by pie?

I'll grant you that I lost all my emeralds to the elves many times before trapping one with the honey, but I never once was killed by the Yeti, and I knew to turn on the wand machine with the cheese due to The Brain (Of Pinky and the Brain) using powdered cheese to power one of his experiments. Science!

Offline Enchantermon

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Re: Death traps with no warning?
« Reply #82 on: September 30, 2010, 04:04:25 PM »
. . . and I knew to turn on the wand machine with the cheese due to The Brain (Of Pinky and the Brain) using powdered cheese to power one of his experiments. Science!
That's more of a coincidence than an argument for good puzzle design, though.
So what if I am, huh? Anyways, I work better when I'm drunk. It makes me fearless! If I see a bad guy, I'll just point my sword at him and saaaaaaaaaay, "Hey! Bad guy! You're not s'posed to be here! Go home or I'll stick you with my sword 'til you go, 'Ouch! I'm dead!' Ah-ha-ha!" Ha-ha. *hic* See? Ain't no one gonna be messin' wit' ol', Benny!

Offline Storm

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Re: Death traps with no warning?
« Reply #83 on: September 30, 2010, 06:15:34 PM »
Most of the testers actually did not die here, and I didn't even know you could die here for some time.

I know I did. It actually took me a while to figure that puzzle out, since back when I first played it there wasn't much of a clue to what you're supposed to do, or a even a retry option for that matter ;)
And yeah, unexpected death is a design flaw. Even Ron Gilbert says so (under "Live and Learn"). But since there is a 'retry' option, it's not such a major issue. As for the 'broken realism', well, you can always assume that Graham noticed the trap mechanism even if the narrator didn't comment about it.

And on a personal note, I never did like that death scene... what a horrible way to go :o

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Offline snabbott

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Re: Death traps with no warning?
« Reply #84 on: October 01, 2010, 09:41:15 AM »
Storm's back! !!!
Yeah - I died there, too. Of course, back then, there was no description for Mag-Gnat - we thought he was some kind of crab-creature. :P

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Offline Storm

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Re: Death traps with no warning?
« Reply #85 on: October 01, 2010, 06:59:35 PM »
Storm's back! !!!
Yeah - I died there, too. Of course, back then, there was no description for Mag-Gnat - we thought he was some kind of crab-creature. :P

Ahhh, the old days... people don't know how good they got it now, I tell you ;)

And whadaya mean, back? I'm always around, just really really busy :-\

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Offline crayauchtin

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Re: Death traps with no warning?
« Reply #86 on: October 01, 2010, 11:30:17 PM »
I'm still worshipping ya, don't worry Storm!

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Offline snabbott

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Re: Death traps with no warning?
« Reply #87 on: October 05, 2010, 03:14:56 PM »
Storm's back! !!!
Yeah - I died there, too. Of course, back then, there was no description for Mag-Gnat - we thought he was some kind of crab-creature. :P

Ahhh, the old days... people don't know how good they got it now, I tell you ;)

And whadaya mean, back? I'm always around, just really really busy :-\
Back as in posting on the forums. :yes:

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Offline Bludshot

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Re: Death traps with no warning?
« Reply #88 on: October 07, 2010, 08:55:15 AM »
The only one that bugged me was the first one mentioned, since Graham basically doesn't do as he is told by not using the actual door.
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Offline Cez

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Re: Death traps with no warning?
« Reply #89 on: October 08, 2010, 05:10:27 AM »
I also agree that they are a design flaw, and that's the reason why I fought so much for that retry button --I had a lot of resistance from some of the directors!

However, WITH the retry button, they become just a funny way down memory lane. --if you are frustrated by them with the option of a retry button, that's just being extremely nitpicky.

Sudden deaths were part of the King's Quest from the past. We wanted to keep them, and we looked at a modern way for you to enjoy them rather than go " oh, crap, when did I last save??"  Which was the case with many, many, many Sierra games.

But in doing so, we kept the spirit of it without punishing the player. I think it's a fair compromise to keep the "design flaws" that also made Sierra games, when they are instantly repaired. That's the difference.

 I would never add a dead end because that can't be instantly repaired. And that's not just a design flaw, it's an exercise in frustration and it's the reason why I could never enjoy KQ5 and had to play it with a walkthrough --one of the few Sierra games I had to do that with.

That said, I can agree that having added a few mechanic things or just a message from the narrator, would have made it better, but really, again, with a retry button, why are we discussing this one so hard? I find it funny, especially when the Narrator scolds you after that --and no, I don't mind a sarcastic narrator there, you should have known that sticking your hand in a strange hole wouldn't have ended well -it's King's Quest for crying out loud :)
« Last Edit: October 08, 2010, 05:20:37 AM by Cez »


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Offline kindofdoon

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Re: Death traps with no warning?
« Reply #90 on: October 08, 2010, 09:05:14 AM »
I personally enjoyed the death trap in question.

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Offline shadyparadox

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Re: Death traps with no warning?
« Reply #91 on: October 09, 2010, 10:23:31 PM »
I find it funny, especially when the Narrator scolds you after that --and no, I don't mind a sarcastic narrator there, you should have known that sticking your hand in a strange hole wouldn't have ended well -it's King's Quest for crying out loud :)

I DID figure it was a trap, which is why I clicked the eye on it first for a description and a close-up. But I'm not going to start solving a puzzle that may or may not exist before there's any indication a simple grab is not the expected solution. Anyway, before the discussion loops back over itself...

Quote
That said, I can agree that having added a few mechanic things or just a message from the narrator, would have made it better,

Cool, thanks, this is all I was originally pointing out when I started the thread. There are a lot of options to make one tiny adjustment that would make it much better. I understand that you don't want the trap to suddenly become so obvious that no one falls for it, which is why I've said you can choose from a number of minimal warnings. The key is that the trap should punish the eager and reward the cautious.

For the record, I did enjoy that puzzle otherwise.

Offline Lambonius

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Re: Death traps with no warning?
« Reply #92 on: October 09, 2010, 11:18:59 PM »

Cool, thanks, this is all I was originally pointing out when I started the thread. There are a lot of options to make one tiny adjustment that would make it much better. I understand that you don't want the trap to suddenly become so obvious that no one falls for it, which is why I've said you can choose from a number of minimal warnings. The key is that the trap should punish the eager and reward the cautious.

Sad that it took five pages before one of the designers actually admitted fault.  ::)  But not unexpected.
 

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