Author Topic: Haids' Thread  (Read 33915 times)

Offline DawsonJ

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Re: Haids' Thread
« Reply #100 on: May 09, 2012, 11:05:33 PM »
Thanks for the cool tidbit, Haids.
It's been years since I've played KQVI.  I should put it on my (seeming endless) list of games to play.

The concept of the dead being chained to the world of the living is rather popular.  I just finished playing Dragon Quest IX on the DS, which also heavily relies on that concept.  Part of the game is based on meeting with the dead and fulfilling their wishes so that they can be free to leave.  In that game, you're basically an angel (though called a "Celestrian" - no imagination! :wall:) who at times must meet with the dead to send them off.  Sometimes they need a simple explanation, other times they need something done to relieve their stress, which keeps them tied to the world of the living.

Even Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door has an NPC with that problem. Actually 2 - one helps you as an NPC, whereas the other is a boss who ends up an ally.

Offline Haids1987

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Re: Haids' Thread
« Reply #101 on: May 10, 2012, 08:52:02 AM »
I'm pretty sure that before the gate is supposed to be limbo, but after that...doesn't seem any more concrete, does it? XD I don't think he sends you to another realm, per se. Maybe you just get to chill in his chambers past the river Styx?
See, that's kind of what I always thought too--that dead King's Quest characters go to the Realm of the Dead and just kind of live out the rest of eternity in ghoulish misery. But it doesn't seem logical to me that they would have their hearing with Samhain and not face some kind of judgement--a retribution of sorts--and then move on. But hey, when you hold up the mirror, it does say aomething about the "surrounding spirits" turning away. Maybe you're right, Kelsey--all the cool ghosts get to hang with the Lord of the Dead!
If they are so chained by earthly troubles, what would allow them to enter the Underworld? Allaria still has her ticket when she meets Alex. Maybe because of that remaining connection to the Land of the Living they aren't allowed in.
I think that's exactly what it is. We aren't shown what happens when you first enter the Realm of the Dead (except that you get a quippy one-liner to take with you), so perhaps they get a ticket the moment they enter it? Allaria says that she and Caliphan can't leave because they are chained by their earthly sorrows. They have to go somewhere when they die--and if my theory is correct, then the Realm of the Dead is the place they go until they can move on and be judged.
The concept of the dead being chained to the world of the living is rather popular.  I just finished playing Dragon Quest IX on the DS, which also heavily relies on that concept.  Part of the game is based on meeting with the dead and fulfilling their wishes so that they can be free to leave.  In that game, you're basically an angel (though called a "Celestrian" - no imagination! :wall:) who at times must meet with the dead to send them off.  Sometimes they need a simple explanation, other times they need something done to relieve their stress, which keeps them tied to the world of the living.
If you believe any of it, this also links right to the idea of cleansing a place to rid it of spirits--"smudging," as the Native Americans call it. I, for one, totally believe in ghosts and spirits, angels and demons, so it's not so far-fetched to me that a spirit might need help moving onto whatever lies beyond. If they're still stuck here, then they obviously ARE still connected to Earth somehow, so they can't become part of the Great Beyond if they're still bound by human worries. They might need an explanation or "something done to relieve their stress" in order to get them to move on. So to me, the Realm of the Dead represents that placeholder until they can.

Most enlightening, everyone. Thanks for the answers! :)
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Offline darthkiwi

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Re: Haids' Thread
« Reply #102 on: May 10, 2012, 11:54:32 AM »
Bear in mind Caliphim and Allaria can't move on, because of their unfinished business, but they *do* have a ticket - which they give to Alexander, which for some reason allows him to get past the doorkeeper. That's probably just puzzle logic overruling metaphysical laws, but it does seem weird that Alexander, who is very much of the land of the living and therefore has more unfinished business than any ghost, can get in just by showing a ticket, which would seem to be an irrelevance anyway since it's no good if you're a ghost with unfinished business.

Hmm.

Also, while many afterlife myths involve judgement of some sort, this is not really true of all. In Greek mythology, the really really bad people go to Tartarus, and the really heroic people who died in battle go to the Elysian Fields, but everyone else - regardless of what they did in their lives - just go to Hades, which is a big, expansive, boring plain. You'd literally have to do something of mythic proportions to get sent to Tartarus.

The Vikings also believed that people who died in battle would go to Valhalla, and everyone else would... presumably go somewhere less fun. As far as I know, though, your prior actions wouldn't determine whether you go to Valhalla or not: a novice soldier killed in their first battle would presumably get in, while a soldier who had emerged victorious from hundreds of battles but died in his bed wouldn't. Which is interesting, as it shows how culturally determined our ideas of value are, and what you need to do to be supremely valued in a society.
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Offline Delling

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Re: Haids' Thread
« Reply #103 on: May 10, 2012, 01:41:03 PM »
Bear in mind Caliphim and Allaria can't move on, because of their unfinished business, but they *do* have a ticket - which they give to Alexander, which for some reason allows him to get past the doorkeeper. That's probably just puzzle logic overruling metaphysical laws, but it does seem weird that Alexander, who is very much of the land of the living and therefore has more unfinished business than any ghost, can get in just by showing a ticket, which would seem to be an irrelevance anyway since it's no good if you're a ghost with unfinished business.
Not quite. It makes sense actually that ghosts would need a living champion. Think of it this way: you have unfinished business but you can't return to the land of the living at least not properly. If you were to go before Samhain, he would simply ask why you hadn't finished your business before coming and usher you on into the afterlife. No good. So, send someone who obviously shouldn't be there in your place. But THERE IS a precedent for what Alexander does (a story that you can find either in the booklet with the game or in game, I forget which or if it's both).


The Vikings also believed that people who died in battle would go to Valhalla, and everyone else would... presumably go somewhere less fun. As far as I know, though, your prior actions wouldn't determine whether you go to Valhalla or not: a novice soldier killed in their first battle would presumably get in, while a soldier who had emerged victorious from hundreds of battles but died in his bed wouldn't. Which is interesting, as it shows how culturally determined our ideas of value are, and what you need to do to be supremely valued in a society.
Valhalla was Odin's hall. Sessrumnir was Freyja's. Freyja got first pick of the fallen as she was the first valkyrie. Sessrumnir was a lot like Valhalla though with the orgiastic side of things dialed up to 11... basically, when it says "Freyja got her pick", it means it in more ways than one... ...

Nifleheim was where your average Joe Viking Norman could expect to go. What you got to do there varies somewhat with what you were/did in life, but all accounts agree it is a cold and unfriendly place... most likely filled with lots of bitter accountants who didn't make it into Valhalla (that's my theory anyway). Intriguingly though, Nifleheim as the land of ice was primeval and had been around since the beginning alongside Muspelheim, the land of fire. (Some versions split Nifleheim and Hel(a) (the a is quite actually optional) with Nifleheim just being a land of ice and Hel(a) just being the land for the unhonored dead (in order to do this and maintain the 9 worlds mandate they generally had to demote (usually) either Nidavellir (home of the dwarfs ("dwarves" was a Tolkien thing)) or Svartalfheim (home of the dark elves)... everyone knows Nidavellir's just a dwarf world anyway ::) :P))
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Offline Haids1987

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Re: Haids' Thread
« Reply #104 on: May 10, 2012, 03:39:06 PM »
Not quite. It makes sense actually that ghosts would need a living champion. Think of it this way: you have unfinished business but you can't return to the land of the living at least not properly. If you were to go before Samhain, he would simply ask why you hadn't finished your business before coming and usher you on into the afterlife. No good.
But it doesn't seem that you CAN go to Samhain at all until your unfinished business is complete. I don't think he could even see you until you had it all squared away.
But THERE IS a precedent for what Alexander does (a story that you can find either in the booklet with the game or in game, I forget which or if it's both).
I'm not sure what you mean here, Delling--do you mean the knight who went to the underworld to challenge Death? The one whose gauntlet you steal?
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Offline DawsonJ

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Re: Haids' Thread
« Reply #105 on: May 10, 2012, 11:24:56 PM »
Not quite. It makes sense actually that ghosts would need a living champion. Think of it this way: you have unfinished business but you can't return to the land of the living at least not properly. If you were to go before Samhain, he would simply ask why you hadn't finished your business before coming and usher you on into the afterlife. No good.
But it doesn't seem that you CAN go to Samhain at all until your unfinished business is complete. I don't think he could even see you until you had it all squared away.

The mother ghost, the King and the Queen seem to have decided not to go farther in. It could be said that Alexander had "unfinished business," which actually was his reason for entering the Land.  As did the knight in search of his maiden (whose gauntlet you steal and throw in Samhain's face (metaphorically)). It would seem that one's choice has more to do with one's entry than one's needs would.  Some may choose to stay in the above area of the Land of the Dead in an attempt to find a way to become a Revenant, as the fleshly beings aboveground may attest. (As you can see in the video, not everyone aboveground was in spirit form.)
« Last Edit: May 10, 2012, 11:30:48 PM by DawsonJ »

Offline Deloria

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Re: Haids' Thread
« Reply #106 on: May 11, 2012, 04:13:01 AM »
I got the impression that if you stayed outside for long enough, so if some grievous wrong had been done to you and you were incapable of feeling a sense of vindication even long after everyone who could have been punished or helped you resolve your issues or find peace had died, and you'd spent all those years just reflecting on your problems, that your body would be restored so you could help yourself but that you could also go insane in the process, explaining the mindless zombies. :P
 
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Offline Haids1987

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Re: Haids' Thread
« Reply #107 on: May 11, 2012, 08:39:00 AM »
.........that idea had never once occurred to me. But wow, it's totally valid. Thank you Deloria! :yes:
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Offline DawsonJ

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Re: Haids' Thread
« Reply #108 on: June 16, 2012, 01:11:10 AM »
"Haids! Haids! You there? Pick up. I know you can hear me..." - I actually have friends who leave messages like that on people's cellphones.   ::)

Anyway, to the point... Have you done any research on www.DreamInCode.net or www.CPlusPlus.com?  Since you're learning forms of the C language, I thought these sites may be of help.

Have fun!  :gossip:

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Offline Haids1987

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Re: Haids' Thread
« Reply #109 on: June 16, 2012, 06:49:31 PM »

;D

No, I have never raided those websites before, thank you, Dawson! You're so cute to even think of me! ;]  C#...good times, man! Do you speak C# also?
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Offline DawsonJ

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Re: Haids' Thread
« Reply #110 on: June 16, 2012, 11:55:33 PM »

;D

No, I have never raided those websites before, thank you, Dawson! You're so cute to even think of me! ;]  C#...good times, man! Do you speak C# also?

Thanks for the screenshot.  That works better.

Actually, I don't program anything but batch files (and I do RAM Hacking - for various gaming systems), BUT I like programming languages.  I mostly read them for reverse engineering and simple hacking. If you ever need help with Hexidecimal editing, feel free to ask.  :P

I can't believe I forgot...
-There's a YT channel dedicated to introducing programming languages and free apps for programming: SchoolFreeware

-Microsoft Visual Studio Express (free version). This site also offers free training videos for VS Express tools.


I'm hacking my way through the Dragon Warrior / Dragon Quest Series now, but I may take some time off before DQVIII to study some other subjects.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2012, 02:55:19 AM by DawsonJ »

Offline Haids1987

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Re: Haids' Thread
« Reply #111 on: June 17, 2012, 04:01:18 PM »
Oddly enough, I have no idea how to be a hacker! :no: I wish I knew, but I've been so busy trying to learn programming, how to create little mini programs, I haven't really had much of a chance to try and figure out the ins and outs of being a hacker.

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Offline snabbott

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Re: Haids' Thread
« Reply #112 on: June 18, 2012, 11:46:59 AM »
Oddly enough, I have no idea how to be a hacker! :no: I wish I knew, but I've been so busy trying to learn programming, how to create little mini programs, I haven't really had much of a chance to try and figure out the ins and outs of being a hacker.
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Offline Haids1987

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Re: Haids' Thread
« Reply #113 on: June 18, 2012, 01:05:32 PM »
Oddly enough, I have no idea how to be a hacker! :no: I wish I knew, but I've been so busy trying to learn programming, how to create little mini programs, I haven't really had much of a chance to try and figure out the ins and outs of being a hacker.
How to become a hacker
LOL, I have had that page bookmarked since last summer and I still haven't tried it out! XD Thanks, Steve. :D
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Offline DawsonJ

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Re: Haids' Thread
« Reply #114 on: June 19, 2012, 03:37:02 PM »
I like the forums at www.GameHacking.org.  Also, there's the EnHacklopedia. ;)

If you want an excellent program for game hacking, there's always www.CheatEngine.org.  I use that one with the PS2 games I buy and play through PCSX2.  The only problem is the inability to share the codes with console users.  There are some cheat engines that work with PS2 emulators, though.  I just prefer CheatEngine.  (It can also be used to make a Trainer to deal with the faulty health bars in Torque Engine games. I may make one for TSL eps 2 & 4 someday. ;))

Oddly enough, I have no idea how to be a hacker! :no: I wish I knew, but I've been so busy trying to learn programming, how to create little mini programs, I haven't really had much of a chance to try and figure out the ins and outs of being a hacker.

As you learn programming, you'll see how many programs, games, etc are written in C.  You'll see how easy it is to hack them, too.  In fact, open-source programs tend to have forums where you can submit your changes to their code.  It's a great time to get into programming.  Now that even the all-greedy Microsoft is offering programming freebies, and so many programs are now open-source, you get lots of free practice. ;)

Hacking rocks!  *Just remembered... I have to finish DQVI so I can post all the codes...  :'(*
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Offline Haids1987

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Re: Haids' Thread
« Reply #115 on: June 20, 2012, 08:44:13 AM »
Thanks for the links, Dawson--as soon as I find some time, I'll check them out and see what I can do!  ;D

You're rad! Why weren't we friends earlier?!
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Offline DawsonJ

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Re: Haids' Thread
« Reply #116 on: June 20, 2012, 08:49:38 PM »
You're rad! Why weren't we friends earlier?!

Ooh... "Rad"... me like. :yes:
Whoa, trippy.  That sends me back to the totally tubular 80s!  Punky Brewster, Get Along Gang, Teddy Ruxpin, Enchanted Journey  and Kissyfur, anyone?

Let me know if you need any more info, Haids.  I have my connections in quite a few Internet sites. ;D
« Last Edit: June 20, 2012, 09:06:08 PM by DawsonJ »

Offline Haids1987

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Re: Haids' Thread
« Reply #117 on: June 21, 2012, 08:48:42 AM »
DUDE! I have the coolest book called Totally Tubular 80's Toys. It starts at toys in 1980 (My Little Ponies came out that year!) all the way to 1989. It seriously touches on everything from Ghostbusters to Roger Rabbit to He-Man and She-Ra. SO MUCH FUN! :D

Let me know if you need any more info, Haids.  I have my connections in quite a few Internet sites. ;D
Fo sho! :yes:
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Offline KatieHal

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Re: Haids' Thread
« Reply #118 on: June 21, 2012, 09:23:51 AM »
Dammit, Dawson, now I'm reliving my single digit years and watching Punky episodes on youtube!

...hee!

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Offline Haids1987

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Re: Haids' Thread
« Reply #119 on: June 21, 2012, 01:58:05 PM »
Dammit, Dawson, now I'm reliving my single digit years and watching Punky episodes on youtube!

...hee!
And what, my dear one, is wrong with that? I love reliving my single digit years! I watched the Care Bears Movie II three nights ago just for fun! :yes:
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