Writing Quality in TSL Feedback

[kindofdoon]

Which conversation are you referring to? The one with the cartographer?

[darthkiwi]

I don't remember where exactly, but at one point the narrator says "have took", as in, "you have took the item."

Just... no. Please, no.

[kindofdoon]

I would expect myself to catch such a glaring grammatical error, but I never did. Can you be more specific about its location?

[Deloria]

I don't remember where exactly, but at one point the narrator says "have took", as in, "you have took the item."

Just... no. Please, no.

Indeed. That was very, very bad.

[Enchantermon]

I'm also surprised that I didn't catch that; I would have visibly cringed.

[kindofdoon]

Yeah, same here. Therefore I can only conclude that I didn't hear that line in the first plane.

[Lambonius]

I don't remember where exactly, but at one point the narrator says "have took", as in, "you have took the item."

Just... no. Please, no.

Indeed. That was very, very bad.

No, no.  You don't understand.  It was intentional.  It adds realism to the dialog.   

[Rosella]

Now that's not fair.

I'm pretty sure what Cesar meant when he said that was like, people don't go around saying "What is the item of which you speak?" and it's much more likely to see "What are you talking about?" even though that sentence is grammatically frowned upon. Because of that, you're going to see more of the latter types of statements in TSL.

No intelligent person would say "have took."

[kindofdoon]

I agree, it's unfair to equate grammatical errors of grossly differing magnitudes.

[Rosella]

I'm sure Lambonius was just poking fun and didn't mean any harm, but still, it's not fair.

[KatieHal]

I agree, it's unfair to equate grammatical errors of grossly differing magnitudes.

LOL, doon FTW!

[Lambonius]

Heh.  Yeah, I was just teasing.  To be fair though, the errors I was referring to in my initial review were more of the "have took" type and less of the "prose-vs.-vernacular" type.  I write humanities papers as part of my career--I know the difference.    I haven't had a chance yet to go back through the game and try to pick out specifics.  I plan on replaying both episodes this weekend to try and get a handle on what exactly it was that was bothering me about writing (and I'll keep my ears open about grammar, too--though I'm not going to go through it with a fine toothed comb or anything.  )

And actually, most of the characters in TSL DO talk like "What is the item of which you speak?"--more formal sounding English.  Which is what makes the incorrect parts stand out even more to my ears.  Again though, I can't really talk specifics til I replay this weekend.  Not to mention the fact that almost all the characters in the old KQ games spoke in formal English, too. 

[kindofdoon]

And actually, most of the characters in TSL DO talk like "What is the item of which you speak?"--more formal sounding English.  Which is what makes the incorrect parts stand out even more to my ears.

I agree. I recall one specific line from Episode 1, where Hassan says "This ain't like nothing I've ever seen before." Now that line stuck out like...well, a lot. He speaks very formally, with no colloquialisms, and then he drops that one like a bomb.

Note: I am not citing this as grammatically incorrect English (though technically it is), but rather as awkward-sounding English in context.

[Lambonius]

You raise a good point, doon.  It's not necessarily that some lines COULDN'T work--but it seems like there is a consistency issue in the dialog with many characters.  Hassan may not be the best example, given the plethora of salty sea-slang that we hear from him in Ep. 2, but there are others that go from very formal to very informal on a dime--which makes the informalities sound more awkward than they might otherwise sound if the character spoke that way all the time.

[kindofdoon]

Yes, exactly. Though I would assert that Hassan is still a good example. Though his salty sailor talk may be...well, salty, it's still grammatically correct and doesn't use any colloquialisms like "ain't" or any double negatives like "ain't like nothing", so it does blend with his more formal stuff. It's just that one line...

(Posted on: September 30, 2010, 12:03:35 AM)

The way I think of it is as follows. For dialog to be consistent, a character must stay within the language palette they define through their introductory dialogue. Hassan defines his language palette on the IoC docks, speaking formally and without colloquialisms. The issue presents itself on the IoM, when Hassan suddenly breaks from his language palette by saying "ain't like nothing" in a formal voice (very awkward).

It would be like me suddenly dropping an expletive in the middle of the post. You'd notice it immediately, because I don't curse, and thus it would seem unnatural.

[Lambonius]

Frankly, the main places I noticed awkward sounding lines were with the narrator.  Probably because she's supposed to be very formal most of the time.  There were one or two awkwardly worded lines from the sea nymphs that stuck out in my mind as well.  One that I seem to remember specifically was something like, "This is for that spell that you're searching for ingredients for."  Grammatically incorrect and awkwardly/redundantly worded, which was, of course, enhanced by the formal manner in which they spoke almost all of their other lines.

[kindofdoon]

The narrator is another can of worms entirely...

Yes, I agree.

[darthkiwi]

Sorry, I'm not sure where the infamous "have took" thing happened and since I've just gone back to university I'm too busy to play through again I know it was the narrator who said it, though. I remember because I thought "They can't even use the 'It's ungrammatical but colloquial' argument for this one!"

[KatieHal]

No, if that's in there, we definitely just missed one. I'm wondering which line it is now too.

[Haids1987]

No intelligent person would say "have took."

Shakespeare did.

Romeo and Juliet, Scene V:

JULIET
Then have my lips the sin that they have took.