Gold...or is it?

[Blackthorne]

I do have to say that the notion that "anything goes" on the Isle of Wonder really goes to show that many didn't understand the concept of the Isle of Wonder.  Even with "wonder", there's still rules.


Bt

[crayauchtin]

I don't think we're saying "anything goes" per se, we're just saying it's less specific than Shady and Lamb are indicating.

[shadyparadox]

I don't think we're saying "anything goes" per se, we're just saying it's less specific than Shady and Lamb are indicating.

And yet it's more specific than you're indicating.

[Lambonius]

I don't think we're saying "anything goes" per se, we're just saying it's less specific than Shady and Lamb are indicating.

I really don't see how it's any less specific than I've repeatedly indicated.

Every character on the Isle of Wonder is a figure of speech in which the words in the phrase are taken literally and turned into a character.  The exceptions are the personified objects/creatures/concepts, namely the Chess pieces and Black Widow.  Even the Sense Gnomes (which seem at first glance to be the one wild card) fit this design scheme, since they are personifications of the 5 human senses.  Every other character is based on a figure of speech--it's pretty clear that Roberta and Jane designed the place with this specific scheme in mind.  I don't know why we are arguing about this.  It's really not a matter of opinion, but rather empirical facts that are clearly verifiable by anyone who wants to take the time to replay KQ6 and analyze it a bit.  

Again, I'm not saying Mag-Gnat doesn't fit the whimsical tone of the Island, I'm just saying that technically, he doesn't fit the design scheme as conceived of by Roberta and Jane.  It's not an insult.  Just pointing out a fact.

[KatieHal]

Right, and it's a "fact" that we don't agree on.

Hey, I've got the WEIRDEST feeling of deja vu....anyone else?

[Sslaxx]

Circles, ever decreasing until thread lock?

[KatieHal]

Threads like these are why I have this avatar image. 

[Deloria]

Since this is something that won't be fixed, it's already out, and people haven't been stuck because it's illogical to use gold on a magnet --which shows you people like to think outside the box, and that's what adventure games are about--, this discussion is rather pointless, don't you all think?

To be fair, people haven't been stuck because we all saw the Magnat trying to get Graham's gold. Without that animation, many people probably would have been stuck, but as it's been implemented it's not an issue.

For the record, I'm fine with illogical puzzles. But if there are other such puzzles in future episodes, I believe more such short animations will have to be included in order not to attract a great deal of negative attention from frustrated gamers.  

EDIT: And yes, I also thought it was a cute character. I didn't make this thread with the intention of attacking POS.

[crayauchtin]

Every character on the Isle of Wonder is a figure of speech in which the words in the phrase are taken literally and turned into a character.  The exceptions are the personified objects/creatures/concepts, namely the Chess pieces and Black Widow.  Even the Sense Gnomes (which seem at first glance to be the one wild card) fit this design scheme, since they are personifications of the 5 human senses.  Every other character is based on a figure of speech--it's pretty clear that Roberta and Jane designed the place with this specific scheme in mind.  I don't know why we are arguing about this.  It's really not a matter of opinion, but rather empirical facts that are clearly verifiable by anyone who wants to take the time to replay KQ6 and analyze it a bit.  

I still want you to explain to me the figure of speech Hole-in-the-Wall is supposed to be. Because otherwise, they all represent both the literal interpretation *and* the figurative phrase. Hole-in-the-Wall doesn't. So, if you're going to stand by this argument (which, obviously you are) I really wish you'd explain that Hole-in-the-Logic.

Otherwise, it can't possibly be as specific as you've said because Jane and Roberta are breaking their own rules. Or, perhaps, you're making up rules for them.

[liggy002]

Then maybe they shouldn't have modeled it after the magnet.

We didn't.  At least, I've never seen a magnet with eyes or arms that could walk around by itself.

It is good to know that you haven't used LSD before.

[Lambonius]

Every character on the Isle of Wonder is a figure of speech in which the words in the phrase are taken literally and turned into a character.  The exceptions are the personified objects/creatures/concepts, namely the Chess pieces and Black Widow.  Even the Sense Gnomes (which seem at first glance to be the one wild card) fit this design scheme, since they are personifications of the 5 human senses.  Every other character is based on a figure of speech--it's pretty clear that Roberta and Jane designed the place with this specific scheme in mind.  I don't know why we are arguing about this.  It's really not a matter of opinion, but rather empirical facts that are clearly verifiable by anyone who wants to take the time to replay KQ6 and analyze it a bit.  

I still want you to explain to me the figure of speech Hole-in-the-Wall is supposed to be. Because otherwise, they all represent both the literal interpretation *and* the figurative phrase. Hole-in-the-Wall doesn't. So, if you're going to stand by this argument (which, obviously you are) I really wish you'd explain that Hole-in-the-Logic.

Really?  You've never heard the expression "hole in the wall" before?  It means an out-of-the-way location, or a simple, non-fancy, but otherwise pleasant place.  It's most commonly used to refer to little dive restaurants, but it can more generally mean any out-of-the-way location.  Sometimes it has the connotation that people specifically go to these locations to escape day to day life or be forgotten.  It doesn't mean a literal "hole" at all, nor does it have anything to do with a literal "wall."  On the Isle of Wonder, the expression (not its actual meaning) is given literal form--i.e. the words are taken literally and turned into a cute little character shaped like a hole that sits on a wall.  How can I be any more clear?  

http://www.englishdaily626.com/slang.php?066

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hole+in+the+wall

24. hole in the wall, a small or confining place, esp. one that is dingy, shabby, or out-of-the-way: Their first shop was a real hole in the wall.

[crayauchtin]

Lamb -- I *have* heard that expression -- as I've said like six times in this thread (and I even explained where that expression comes from, and yes it does have to do with walls ) -- and that's why I'm saying it does not fit your explanation of the "rules" at all.

Okay, for instance....
Iceberg Lettuce -- lettuce that is made of ice.
Dogwood Tree -- tree that has a dog's head and barks.
Cattails -- reeds that meow and wave around when you pull them
Milkweed -- weeds with bottles of milk on them
Stick-in-the-Mud -- grumpy personality, literally a stick stuck in the mud
Bump-on-a-Log -- lazy personality, literally a bump on a log
Bookworm -- worm that lives in his books
Sour Grapes -- grapes with bitterness
Wall Flowers -- shy flowers growing on a wall
Clinging Vines -- are needy, clingy in personality, and are vines clinging to a wall
Baby's Tears -- plants that are infants and cry
Rotten Tomato -- an overripe tomato with a nasty personality
Snapdragons -- flowers with blooms shaped like dragon's heads that snap at people
Oyster Bed -- a place for oysters to sleep.

All of those are two meanings at the same time. That would be the "rule" you're saying exists on the Isle of Wonder.

Whereas Hole-in-the-Wall is just a hole. In a wall. There's no double meaning, there's nothing that makes it fit in with the rest of the list there.
It doesn't fit. It's only ONE meaning, not both.
So, unless Hole-in-the-Wall is also going to dispense food and/or alcohol (or money, if he's British) it doesn't fit and your rules for the Isle of Wonder are not as specific as you keep saying they are.

[Lambonius]

What are you talking about?  It's exactly the same as stick-in-the-mud or bump-on-a-log in your list.

Hole-in-the-wall -- an out-of-the-way place, literally a hole in a wall.

It fits exactly into that list as you've organized it.  

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hole+in+the+wall

24. hole in the wall, a small or confining place, esp. one that is dingy, shabby, or out-of-the-way: Their first shop was a real hole in the wall.

[shadyparadox]

So... does the figurative part come in when he hides behind the wallflowers? I'll admit it's kind of a stretch. 

[Lambonius]

So... does the figurative part come in when he hides behind the wallflowers? I'll admit it's kind of a stretch.  

OHH....I see what you were saying now, cray.    You're saying that both the figurative AND literal parts are expressed in many of the characters.  I gotcha.  (That's not what I was arguing though, btw.)

But yeah, I would definitely say that the figurative part is expressed in his personality.  I don't think it's a stretch at all.  I mean, you could basically take this dictionary definition:

"24. hole in the wall, a small or confining place, esp. one that is dingy, shabby, or out-of-the-way"

and replace the word "place" with "character," and you'd have a description of the Hole-in-the-Wall as he appears in the game.  Obviously you have to personify the idea of a small out-of-the-way place into a human-like character--so they added the idea of him being extremely shy (which makes sense, of course) to be able to express the idea of him hiding and escaping to out-of-the-way spots.  He does it first with the wallflowers when you try to interact with him, and then again when he escapes Alexander after being used in the labyrinth.

Or, another way to look at it would be to take that definition and simply add the words "a character who prefers" to the beginning of it, and you'd have the representation of the Hole-in-the-Wall character from the game.

[Baggins]

Well actually, none of the characters on the Isle of Wonder are "puns" at all--I misspoke when I initially used that word--they are figures of speech (a different thing entirely) that are taken literally and transformed into characters based on that literal interpretation.    So that's really the crucial difference.

Well, the plants of the Pun Garden (KQC name for the garden) and Swamp are figures of speech/idioms (I.E. "Hole in the Wall", a term often used for a pub/bar/tavern; Wallflowers, shy individuals; Stick-in-the-mud, someone who lacks initiative, imagination, or enthusiasm; Bump-on-the-log, a lazy or useless individual), or actual plants given a literal interpretation (snap dragons, baby's tears, iceberg lettuce, sour grapes with sour dispositions that 'wine', clinging vines that strangle). Rotten Tomato isn't a type of plant, but a plant in stage of decomposition (the game however takes the meaning of "rotten" to mean bad disposition). Dogwood tree, that barks like a dog. Cat tails that meow. Milkweed with milk bottles

On the beach you have the "oyster beds", which are portrayed as oysters on literal beds. At Exclamation Point, you have the bookworm which is literally a worm that lives in books. The Black Widow is well a widow, and wants to make Alex her newest "catch". Spelling Bees are literally bees that spell. A rare book is a book that hasn't been out in the sun for too long. The Hanging Participle actually hangs, and appears to be 'part' possum and dragons, and speaks with unfinished sentences. The Oxymoron speaks in oxymorons, although I'm not sure if its a literal "moron". The Diphong just makes weird noises. There appearance as a mouse and hare, doesn't seem to have any direct connection to there names (but might be loose nod to the march hare and dormouse of Alice in Wonderland).

Back to the garden, there is also the Tomato Vines (Rotten Tomato's sisters), but I'm not sure if there is any direct figure of speech, idiom, literal interpretation, or pun being utilized in that name. They seem to be tomato vines like any tomato vines, except that they can talk...

For trivia sake the King's Quest companion also mentions; crab apples with claws and antenna, buttercups filled with butter, and baby's breaths that breath.

As for Chessboard Land, not any puns, idioms, or figures of speech there in KQ6, as far as I know. They have alot in common with Chess Pieces in Alice through the Looking Glass.

[Lambonius]

"Rotten tomato" is also an expression, much like "bad apple" or "bad egg"--basically yeah, a person with a rotten disposition.  The term connotes a specific individual being singled out of a group--so in order to represent it literally, you have to first have a group of non-rotten individuals out of which to single the sole rotten one--hence the regular smiling tomatoes.  They are part of the connotative meaning of the expression.

And "Pun Garden" is definitely a misnomer.  Iceberg lettuce, for example, is not a pun.  Puns are phonetic.  It'd have to be something like Lett-Ice (in which case Mag-Gnat would fit right in--well, except for the fact that it has no gnat-like features.  )

[Baggins]

Actually not all puns are "phonetic". Phonetic puns just make up one type of pun.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pun

But of you are right that "iceberg lettuce" is not a phonetic pun. It might have more in common with homegraphic pun. More of a sight pun than than sound.

A man goes to the Doctor with a piece of lettuce hanging out of his ear.
"That looks nasty," says the doctor.
"Nasty?!?" replies the man, "this is just the tip of the iceberg."

[KatieHal]

I'll give you the Gnat part of it--I think he used to have wings but he doesn't now, and he does have the 'bug eyes' sort of, but yeah, he doesn't look terribly gnat-like despite his name.

[Baggins]

A gnat;

Although, correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't these guys pretty tiny, about the size of a period?