Author Topic: TSL campared to KQ7  (Read 5644 times)

Offline jazzguy+87

  • Wizard's Slave
  • *
  • Posts: 21
TSL campared to KQ7
« on: December 04, 2010, 01:45:28 PM »
I was just thinking about how certain elements of TSL remind me of King's Quest 7.  I know some people didn't like KQ7, but I noticed these common elements, making TSL more like KQ7 than any other King's Quest.

1. KQ7 chapters Vs. the Episodes in TSL

This fells very similar.  KQ7 was to my knowledge the only KQ game with separate chapters (can't remember on MOE).  As I remember you could start on any chapter you wanted.  This is very different from all other KQ games which were basically open environment.

2. Both TSL and KQ7 have a song with Lyrics.

TSL "The Day You Were Gone" and KQ7 "A Land Beyond Dream" (I think!)

3. Both feature very long cut scenes/intro

I think the cut scenes in these two games are longer than all of the others, leading to a sometimes "movie" feel.

4. Mutiple playable characters:
I know that TSL will only feature a playable Graham, but it was originally to feature multiple playable characters, and KQ7 featured both Valence and Rosella.

Just a quick comparison, and wondering what people would think.

Offline darthkiwi

  • Staff
  • Powerful Wizard
  • ***
  • Posts: 958
  • Gender: Male
  • Imagine that I've written something witty here.
Re: TSL campared to KQ7
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2010, 03:32:29 PM »
You do make some good points. But I'd like to point out that many of those points also apply to KQ6:

2. Song with lyrics

KQ6 had "Girl in the Tower", which was sung by a professional singer - IIRC this was a big thing at the time. The Day You Were Gone reminded me of this song rather than A Land Beyond Dreams.

3. Cutscenes/intro

KQ6 had a long intro with revolutionary camera angles - the scene where the camera floats down from the chandelier to the floor was ground-breaking, according to documentation at the time, I think. And the intro itself was fairly important. KQ6 is also fairly cinematic: there are a lot of scenes where characters act out sequences which are not under the player's control, eg. Beauty being recalled into the house, Alexander drinking the potion in the pawn shop, the fight scene at the end - not to mention the beautifully drawn high-detail scenes such as Alexander before the Lord of the Dead, Alexander talking to Alhazred in the castle, Alexander confronting Alhazred at the wedding and Alhazred talking to Shamir.

You make some good points, though.
Prince of the Aquitaine. Duke of York.

Knight errant and consort to Her Grace the Empress Deloria of the Holy Roman Empire, Queene of all Albion and Princess Palatine.

Offline Arkillian

  • Powerful Wizard
  • ******
  • Posts: 1127
  • Gender: Female
  • Me Gusta
    • Deviantart
Re: TSL campared to KQ7
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2010, 03:38:22 PM »
Yeah- alot of those point sadly are stuff that couldn't be put into the old games as much due to file size 1-7 all had similar length opening scenes I felt. I'm fighting to think of one that didn't have a decent length into. KQ7 was pretty long, but it's also the more modern of the 7 games so there was the technology for it.

This point also applies to the music. If the early days could've had vocals rather than midi or CPU buzzers then I think the game play would be alot more like TSL


Offline jazzguy+87

  • Wizard's Slave
  • *
  • Posts: 21
Re: TSL campared to KQ7
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2010, 04:08:51 PM »
I agree, most of these points are largely due to the advancements in technology. 

I also hadn't considered some of those aspects of KQ6 (it has been a while!).

Finally, I though of what really makes them feel similar, KQ7 basically also had a female narrator. The player characters   Read all narration as either inner thoughts or death scenes.

I thought about this when I went back today and tried the sea nymph death. Great stuff!

Offline Lambonius

  • Magical Genie
  • *******
  • Posts: 1839
  • Gender: Male
  • You wanna talk to God? Let's go see him together.
Re: TSL campared to KQ7
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2010, 08:51:47 PM »
Hasn't Cesar said that KQ7 was his favorite?  If that's the case, then it's no wonder there are similarities, considering he wrote the lion's share of the plot.  I think that so far it feels tonally similar to a mixture between KQ6 and 7--very involved storyline in the vein of KQ6, but lots of silliness in the vein of 7.  :)

BTW, KQ8 wasn't technically broken into chapters, BUT because you had separate "levels," it basically played that way.

Offline Baggins

  • Read-Only
  • Magical Genie
  • *
  • Posts: 2554
Re: TSL campared to KQ7
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2010, 08:57:17 PM »
Quote
This fells very similar.  KQ7 was to my knowledge the only KQ game with separate chapters (can't remember on MOE).  As I remember you could start on any chapter you wanted.  This is very different from all other KQ games which were basically open environment.

MOE is kinda of chapter based. As each level is pretty much a chapter. There is only a tiny bit of back tracking. Otherwise, the levels aren't really chapters. Its probably closer to KQ3 in linear progression design, and KQ2 to lesser extent (which also had a slighly linear progression, if you count hte door, and at least once you get past Kolyma).

KQ6 is said to have chapters as well (according to behind the scenes information), but they hidden and seamless with the gameplay, they are unlocked by completing certain tasks. For example getting the magic map, unlocks the next chapter, and other tasks. Going through the catacombs and meeting the oracle unlocks yet another chapter. How you use the Beauty's clothes unlocks two seperate 'chapters'/endings. Though by this definition of chapters, one could possibly include KQ2 with its "door/updated tasks" as similar, or KQ4's Lolotte's tasks.

Quote
I'm fighting to think of one that didn't have a decent length into
KQ1 Classic, didn't have an intro. KQ2 was the first in the series to have an intro (it was only about 2-3 minutes long at the most). KQ1remake replaced part of original KQ1 (the trip into the castle to visit the king), turning it into an intro (this modified some of the point totals actually).
« Last Edit: December 04, 2010, 09:09:39 PM by Baggins »
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

Offline KatieHal

  • Designer, Public Relations Director
  • Administrator
  • Phoenix Groupie
  • *****
  • Posts: 6561
  • Gender: Female
  • Snark Advocate
    • Phoenix Online Studios
Re: TSL campared to KQ7
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2010, 09:03:05 PM »
KQ6 is his favorite; KQ7 is the second-favorite (just asked).

Katie Hallahan
~Designer, PR Director~

"Change is the constant, the signal for rebirth, the egg of the phoenix." Christina Baldwin

I have a blog!

Offline Big C from Cauney island

  • Royal Heir
  • ****
  • Posts: 296
Re: TSL campared to KQ7
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2010, 07:59:45 AM »
KQ7 and TSL? Not quite, in my opinion. I actually prefer TSL graphically and absolutely sound wise.
I like Disney movies, but I've always seen KQ as something different.

Offline jazzguy+87

  • Wizard's Slave
  • *
  • Posts: 21
Re: TSL campared to KQ7
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2010, 05:24:38 PM »
TSL is definitely very different from KQ7, but I just wanted to point out some similarities in style that particularly remind me of KQ7.

Now, as far as the Disney like style of KQ7, I would argue in a world with Kings, Princess, talking animals, Faerie Tale characters, and colorful animation, that some might understand the direction towards a game with Disney style animation.

However, the game play style of KQ7 is what most people seem to find distasteful.  I think that any of the other KQ games would be at home in the art style of KQ7 without much of a stretch.

Offline Ultima992

  • Devoted Knight
  • ***
  • Posts: 184
  • Gender: Male
  • Stuck in the game? Check out my walkthrough!
    • Phoenix Online Studios - The Silver Lining - Walkthrough
Re: TSL campared to KQ7
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2010, 07:53:53 PM »
just completed KQ7 and i can say it was indeed full of life,color and animation. If you had to compare it to something you might say Disney off the top of your head.
The game play was very different from the other KQ and i think thats what people disliked about it.
There was a few times i would of like to had the eye icon to look at something, or the speak icon, to hear some silly remark about how i cannot talk to nothing if nothing is there ect ect...
Now to see that in TSL, personally my opinion
 
KQ7 - compared to - TSL
            different

Offline Baggins

  • Read-Only
  • Magical Genie
  • *
  • Posts: 2554
Re: TSL campared to KQ7
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2010, 08:06:07 PM »
Back in the day, critics used to compare KQ1-4 to disney/bluth as playable cartoons, just saying... You had to use your imagination back then though...
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

Offline Arkillian

  • Powerful Wizard
  • ******
  • Posts: 1127
  • Gender: Female
  • Me Gusta
    • Deviantart
Re: TSL campared to KQ7
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2010, 08:24:47 PM »
Yeah- I'm most of the way through KQ7 (first time), and it does feel very innocent in comparison to how dark TSL is. I mean, the undertones of King's Quest has always been dark, but it was not really that noticable till the heavy mood in TSL. You can really FEEL the danger in it, so to me, it's not only very different technology wise, but the cinematography is so much more dynamic- it's not that humour is lost, but the serious moments in TSL are serious. KQ7 is all light hearted with some dark humour. To me it's a very different game set up. I guess it's the new audience though...


Offline Baggins

  • Read-Only
  • Magical Genie
  • *
  • Posts: 2554
Re: TSL campared to KQ7
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2010, 10:03:43 PM »
IMO, you can probably ignore original KQ1, and KQ2 as far as "darkness"... The games were pretty whimsical, and bright.

KQ3 is only dark due to the idea of slavery and working under the Manannan's watchful eye. Everything else is pretty bright and cheery..

KQ1 remake and KQ4 went for darker atmosphere (KQ4 with its zombies, troll cave, and the way it developed Lolotte's characterization over time). The music, and the art style had a big part in it. Even KQ5 (probably half-dark forest, and later half of the game) and KQ6 have dark aspects (but I suppose mostly bright).

MOE probably has some of the darkest mood in the entire series, most areas are under a cataclysic darkness.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2011, 10:58:55 AM by Baggins »
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

Offline Boogeyman

  • Devoted Knight
  • ***
  • Posts: 212
  • Gender: Male
  • Never go bargain hunting for a flying carpet!
Re: TSL campared to KQ7
« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2011, 12:47:47 AM »
KQ3: I wouldn't call the current state of Daventry bright and cheery...
I don't narrate for stinky kings!

Offline Baggins

  • Read-Only
  • Magical Genie
  • *
  • Posts: 2554
Re: TSL campared to KQ7
« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2011, 10:51:16 AM »
Nah, even Daventry's state in the original KQ3 AGI isn't all that dark artistically. It's relatively bright, the gnome was still fairly jolly, and hopeful. Only its said that Graham and Valanice lost hope, and locked their doors awaiting their final destruction. Daventry looked mostly like it did in KQ1, with a few burned trees here or there, and some crumbling battlements, and dry riverbeds. But overall still pretty green (if a bit disheveled). When you talk to Rosella, she's quite upbeat about everything. Even when you finally reach his family, they brighten up pretty quickly. Even some of the narrative is still pretty whimsical and hopeful about things. ...and music wise? The Smurfs theme (the gnome's theme) is certainly not the music I would choose to connote darkness and destruction in the world. It comes off far more whimsical than anything.

Not compared to how KQ2RTS and KQ3 remake invisioned Daventry at that time. Now that was a dark apocalyptic view of Daventry. Those games really made the atmosphere much darker.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2011, 11:04:28 AM by Baggins »
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

Offline Luzze

  • Wizard's Slave
  • *
  • Posts: 4
Re: TSL campared to KQ7
« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2011, 10:16:18 AM »
KQ7 may not be as dark as other KQ games (though every KQ game had at least a dark 'part' imo) but it is kind of.. creepy. Far more than any other of the series.
When I first got to know that it was developed at the same time as phantasmagoria it all made sense to me.
Maybe I should say that I played KQ7 when I was really young. Even the random collapsing in the desert gave me nightmares and I was unable to touch the game for month. I'm glad I never made it to Ooga Booga at that time.
But as well as it is colourful and silly, this desert (including the ghost), Ooga Booga Land and a few more death scenes made me feel like at no second in this game I was safe. Even after playing through it a few years ago.
But maybe it's just the germanvoice acting that's quite creepy by itself :)

As for TSL .. I don't know what's to come, but until now it was at 0% creepy.

Offline Enchantermon

  • Magical Genie
  • *******
  • Posts: 2458
  • Gender: Male
    • Hit me up on Facebook
Re: TSL campared to KQ7
« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2011, 01:45:47 PM »
Ooga Booga creeped me out more than anything else in any other game in the King's Quest series, mostly because I liked taking my time and lingering on screens, and if you do that too much the Boogeyman popped up and scared the crap out of me. Yeah...it took a little while for me to get up the guts to play it.
So what if I am, huh? Anyways, I work better when I'm drunk. It makes me fearless! If I see a bad guy, I'll just point my sword at him and saaaaaaaaaay, "Hey! Bad guy! You're not s'posed to be here! Go home or I'll stick you with my sword 'til you go, 'Ouch! I'm dead!' Ah-ha-ha!" Ha-ha. *hic* See? Ain't no one gonna be messin' wit' ol', Benny!

Offline darthkiwi

  • Staff
  • Powerful Wizard
  • ***
  • Posts: 958
  • Gender: Male
  • Imagine that I've written something witty here.
Re: TSL campared to KQ7
« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2011, 03:24:32 PM »
I know that KQ1-4 have a lot of Disney-like aspects, but I always thought there were moments of darkness in them. In KQ1 you can get eaten by a troll, a giant, burnt to death by a dragon, eaten by crocodiles, squashed by a rock (very annoying...), eaten by a witch - and your methods of dealing with these problems are not exactly child-friendly either: killing a witch by pushing her into her own oven, and killing both the giant and the dragon. Same with KQ2 and 3: although there are many cartoony, fun elements (the Batcave comes to mind), there's also darkness in, say, hagatha cooking you - and she pops up a lot towards the end of the game - and the constant fear of being horribly killed by a wizard who is constantly watching you. I'm not saying they're going to give people nightmares but those dark elements are there, even if they're not prevalent.

I just thought that the Disney-like style for KQ7 lessened that slight tone of darkness for me. I like KQ mainly because it combines the jolly stuff with the dark stuff: it feels like it's not overwhelmed by either, and is a richer experience for that. And I just felt that those dark figures from the previous games really were dark: Mannannan was deeply unpleasant if one-dimensional, as was Lolotte; Mordack was fairly intimidating, and Alhazred was definitely in the vein of Shakespearean villains like Claudius, if far less convincing.

But when we get to Malicia, I just find her goofy. She wears pink, she has a silly dog, and she's drawn - like everything else - in a cartoony, exaggerated way which, for me, deflated her presence. I still defeated her, but only because I knew she was the villain; whereas, in KQ6, I felt I could dislike Alhazred for his personality and his crimes, rather than his annoying voice acting and poor dress sense.
Prince of the Aquitaine. Duke of York.

Knight errant and consort to Her Grace the Empress Deloria of the Holy Roman Empire, Queene of all Albion and Princess Palatine.

Offline crayauchtin

  • Crystal Dragon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2726
  • Gender: Male
  • He of Many Aliases
Re: TSL campared to KQ7
« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2011, 04:13:13 AM »
In a lot of ways KQ7 is thematically and plot-wise the very darkest of the KQ games (disregarding MoE in this instance) and I think the Disney qualities and the girly goofiness of Malicia were tools to off-set that. I think they went overboard on that with Malicia, but otherwise I think it was a smart move.

If you think about it, it is the only KQ where you are actively trying to prevent the destruction of the world and the deaths of a LOT of people. That is pretty dark and scary, after all!
"If your translation is correct, that was 'May a sleepy hippopotamus lie down on your house keys,' but you’re not sure. Unfortunately, your fluency in griffin-speak is too low."

We're roleplaying in the King's Quest world: come join in the fun!

Offline Baggins

  • Read-Only
  • Magical Genie
  • *
  • Posts: 2554
Re: TSL campared to KQ7
« Reply #19 on: February 03, 2011, 12:43:58 PM »
Quote
In a lot of ways KQ7 is thematically and plot-wise the very darkest of the KQ games
I personally disagree... KQ6 is darker than KQ7 in many ways, a much more devious villain, the H.R. Geiger version of the Underworld, well developed mythology, etc. It includes well developed back stories for each of the characters (and their relationship to Abdul)...

Even KQ4 feels much darker than KQ7, with the poor starving fisherman and his wife, to the run down ghost filled and zombie surrounded mansion, the evil cannibalistic witches, and scary troll cave. The bittersweet story, of having to save your father before he dies in 24 hours, and saving the life of Genesta, and one of of the more sinister and manipulative villains, in Lolotte. It also probably has the best soundtrack in the Sierra games (at least according to awards it received), that adds to the dark and serious feel of the game.

With the exception of the Boogeyman (who is good for a fright, but is also fairly goofy), and the mysterious desert ghost, the nightmarish frozen Mab, and maybe the curse put on Attis and Ceres, and the curse on Vlad and his wife, there isn't really much in KQ7 that I would consider all that dark.

Almost everything is pretty whimsical, and exaggerated. Goofy even. The desert has its goofy characters, like Jackalope, and the Roo Rat. Almost everything in Falderal is completely silly, and many of the characters in Ooga Booga has their creepy aspects, they are also pretty whimsical and silly as well (check out the whimsical conversation between the Lady and Black and the Boogeyman). And music? KQ7's music varies from pretty upbeat to whimsical. Even Ooga Booga music is fairly upbeat. The were-bear, and swamp monster? The way you get past them, or defeat them are pretty whimsical (Valanice runs past, causing the bear's fur to blow off his body, exposing his undies?). There are lots of site gags of the Saturday Morning variety, where characters are "squished", fall hard splat from the sky into the hard ground, and then pop back into shape. This doesn't seem to hurt the character (there is somewhat uneven and inconsistent use of this, since some of the death scenes in other parts involve being "squished").

Malicia and her little dog, are almost laughably silly. She's afraid of bats, rats, and other vermin? Hah hah! The best she can do, with here plan to destroy the world, and increase the citizenship of Ooga Booga Land? The volcano itself, is pretty silly location.

KQ6 has its goofy island (isle of Wonder), but that place has its hidden darker and deadly side as well (it's not to be under estimated), but almost every other area is quite serious in tone. The deaths are more realistic. KQ4 has a bit more realistic atmosphere and deaths than KQ7.

KQ5 has many aspects that feel darker and more serious than KQ7 even (not counting Cedric).

Ya, I'd agree that KQ7 has aspects/atmosphere that are overall darker than original KQ1-KQ3. But overall presentation, I'd place KQ1 remake, KQ4 and KQ6 above KQ7 for tone.

However, although he is more simplistic due game limitations, even Manannan is a darker character.

Actually, btw, maybe not fully intended to  "prevent destruction of the world", but pay attention to narration, comments by Genesta, and Lolotte in KQ4. One aspect of that game is to prevent Lolotte from obtaining Pandora's Box, to prevent her from destroying/ruling the world. Also note the Pandora's Box death scene (that expands on that theme, the "releasing of the demons" into the world). Lolotte doesn't appear to have a suicidal reason to open the box (like Malicia and her volcano), but more simply to have the power to rule the world. Yet, had she been successful, Lolotte may have actually caused the destruction of the world. Imo, that's pretty dark thematically (Malicia's plot is relatively silly, "I hate you, so die, there".).

« Last Edit: February 03, 2011, 01:00:54 PM by Baggins »
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg
 

anything