Poll

Who would win?

Voldemort
4 (40%)
Darth Vader
6 (60%)

Total Members Voted: 10

Author Topic: A fight to the death!  (Read 16008 times)

Offline dark-daventry

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Re: A fight to the death!
« Reply #20 on: February 01, 2011, 11:09:58 AM »
This is the most random topic have ever seen on these boards!  :rofl:

I wouldn't go that far; I've been around a while, and I'm sure there are even more random topics than this buried somewhere in the Royal Archives.
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Offline Haids1987

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Re: A fight to the death!
« Reply #21 on: February 01, 2011, 12:09:00 PM »
But, as I hope we all know, with mostly dead, you (and he) have more options than going through his pockets for loose change. ;P
YES!  THIS!  You win, Delling!  XD You so took the words out of my mouth! :rofl:

(Out of my hands?  Off of the keyboard? :P)
Oh ! Duh! Horcruxes! Yeah, how could I forget that? That's huge.
Oh, yeah! Good point. He can be *mostly* killed, though. I guess it depends on the definition of "to the death" then.
Shall I edit the post to "no ties, no surrenders, no remaining Horocruxes, and no running away like a little sissy?"
Also, one last thing: Voldemort needs his wand to use magic, but Vader doesn't need his lightsaber to use the Force; it's just handy to have. So if the fight ever got to the stage where they were disarming each other, Vader would have a considerable advantage, since if he could snatch Voldy's wand out of his hand with the force, Voldy would be pretty much defenceless.
Whoa, right!  I've been on the fence for years, but you might be pushing me over the edge to Vader's side with this logic...
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Offline dark-daventry

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Re: A fight to the death!
« Reply #22 on: February 01, 2011, 12:13:44 PM »
But, as I hope we all know, with mostly dead, you (and he) have more options than going through his pockets for loose change. ;P
YES!  THIS!  You win, Delling!  XD You so took the words out of my mouth! :rofl:

(Out of my hands?  Off of the keyboard? :P)
Oh ! Duh! Horcruxes! Yeah, how could I forget that? That's huge.
Oh, yeah! Good point. He can be *mostly* killed, though. I guess it depends on the definition of "to the death" then.
Shall I edit the post to "no ties, no surrenders, no remaining Horocruxes, and no running away like a little sissy?"
Also, one last thing: Voldemort needs his wand to use magic, but Vader doesn't need his lightsaber to use the Force; it's just handy to have. So if the fight ever got to the stage where they were disarming each other, Vader would have a considerable advantage, since if he could snatch Voldy's wand out of his hand with the force, Voldy would be pretty much defenceless.
Whoa, right!  I've been on the fence for years, but you might be pushing me over the edge to Vader's side with this logic...

It's always good to have your bases covered, so might as well go ahead and edit the first post to put all that stuff in there...

Come on, haids! Join the dark side like me! We've got cookies! Don't you want some delicious cookies?
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Offline KatieHal

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Re: A fight to the death!
« Reply #23 on: February 01, 2011, 12:15:34 PM »
If you're going to take away Horcruxes, you need to take away Vader's army. Both of those things are the only reasons these bad guys didn't die earlier and what protect them from harm and damage on a larger scale.

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Offline Haids1987

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Re: A fight to the death!
« Reply #24 on: February 01, 2011, 12:19:13 PM »
If you're going to take away Horcruxes, you need to take away Vader's army. Both of those things are the only reasons these bad guys didn't die earlier and what protect them from harm and damage on a larger scale.
Of course!  I wasn't thinking that the Storm Troopers or the Emperor would be in on this, I was picturing the epic lightsaber duel between Luke and Vader--only I replaced Luke with Voldemort. :P

(Posted on: February 01, 2011, 12:17:53 PM)


It's always good to have your bases covered, so might as well go ahead and edit the first post to put all that stuff in there...

Come on, haids! Join the dark side like me! We've got cookies! Don't you want some delicious cookies?
Hmm, cookies DO sounds tempting...but my sister made some sweet white chocolate chip cookies and I think I'm contented in that respect. :pleased:

I'll get back to you on that one, though.  I still can't make up my mind. :P
« Last Edit: February 01, 2011, 12:22:52 PM by Haids1987 »
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Offline Delling

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Re: A fight to the death!
« Reply #25 on: February 01, 2011, 02:00:14 PM »
It's always good to have your bases covered, so might as well go ahead and edit the first post to put all that stuff in there...

Come on, haids! Join the dark side like me! We've got cookies! Don't you want some delicious cookies?

If you're choosing between Voldemort and Vader... that's a choice between dark sides. ::)
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Offline Haids1987

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Re: A fight to the death!
« Reply #26 on: February 01, 2011, 05:38:29 PM »
It's always good to have your bases covered, so might as well go ahead and edit the first post to put all that stuff in there...

Come on, haids! Join the dark side like me! We've got cookies! Don't you want some delicious cookies?

If you're choosing between Voldemort and Vader... that's a choice between dark sides. ::)
Oooooooooh!  Touche, my friend.  Touche.  So what is Voldemort's dark side offering me, hmmmmmm?
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Offline dark-daventry

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Re: A fight to the death!
« Reply #27 on: February 01, 2011, 08:36:12 PM »
It's always good to have your bases covered, so might as well go ahead and edit the first post to put all that stuff in there...

Come on, haids! Join the dark side like me! We've got cookies! Don't you want some delicious cookies?

If you're choosing between Voldemort and Vader... that's a choice between dark sides. ::)
Oooooooooh!  Touche, my friend.  Touche.  So what is Voldemort's dark side offering me, hmmmmmm?

Nothin. Except for dudes with creepy voices and one odd fetish for snakes. Darth Vader, on the other hand, has that awesome helmet, the force, and of course, cookies.
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Offline Haids1987

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Re: A fight to the death!
« Reply #28 on: February 01, 2011, 09:21:56 PM »
Oooooooooh!  Touche, my friend.  Touche.  So what is Voldemort's dark side offering me, hmmmmmm?
Nothin. Except for dudes with creepy voices and one odd fetish for snakes. Darth Vader, on the other hand, has that awesome helmet, the force, and of course, cookies.
And he goets to spend some up-close-and-personal time with Han Solo...:smitten:
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Offline dark-daventry

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Re: A fight to the death!
« Reply #29 on: February 01, 2011, 09:26:40 PM »
Oooooooooh!  Touche, my friend.  Touche.  So what is Voldemort's dark side offering me, hmmmmmm?
Nothin. Except for dudes with creepy voices and one odd fetish for snakes. Darth Vader, on the other hand, has that awesome helmet, the force, and of course, cookies.
And he goets to spend some up-close-and-personal time with Han Solo...:smitten:

If that sways you, then yes. Darth Vader gets to spend lots of quality time with Han Solo...
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Offline Delling

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Re: A fight to the death!
« Reply #30 on: February 02, 2011, 07:22:18 AM »
Oooooooooh!  Touche, my friend.  Touche.  So what is Voldemort's dark side offering me, hmmmmmm?
Nothin. Except for dudes with creepy voices and one odd fetish for snakes. Darth Vader, on the other hand, has that awesome helmet, the force, and of course, cookies.
And he goets to spend some up-close-and-personal time with Han Solo...:smitten:

If that sways you, then yes. Darth Vader gets to spend lots of quality time with Han Solo...
Feu... that doesn't count: Han was encased in carbonite. ::)
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Offline dark-daventry

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Re: A fight to the death!
« Reply #31 on: February 02, 2011, 12:16:09 PM »
Oooooooooh!  Touche, my friend.  Touche.  So what is Voldemort's dark side offering me, hmmmmmm?
Nothin. Except for dudes with creepy voices and one odd fetish for snakes. Darth Vader, on the other hand, has that awesome helmet, the force, and of course, cookies.
And he goets to spend some up-close-and-personal time with Han Solo...:smitten:

If that sways you, then yes. Darth Vader gets to spend lots of quality time with Han Solo...
Feu... that doesn't count: Han was encased in carbonite. ::)

At one point, yes. But we haven't established what point in time we're even talking about here. For all we know, this supposed duel between Voldemort and Vader happened before Han was encased in said carbonite...
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Offline Haids1987

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Re: A fight to the death!
« Reply #32 on: February 02, 2011, 12:21:43 PM »
Hmmm.  I don't know if it happened beforehand, because that would mean that Vader lived to encase him...
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Offline KatieHal

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Re: A fight to the death!
« Reply #33 on: February 02, 2011, 01:32:15 PM »
I think we should say the fight happens when both villains are at the peak of their powers--storylines otherwise should not affect the death match.

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Offline dark-daventry

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Re: A fight to the death!
« Reply #34 on: February 02, 2011, 02:14:39 PM »
I think we should say the fight happens when both villains are at the peak of their powers--storylines otherwise should not affect the death match.

Agreed. That is the true test of someone's powers.
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Offline Haids1987

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Re: A fight to the death!
« Reply #35 on: February 02, 2011, 05:40:13 PM »
I think we should say the fight happens when both villains are at the peak of their powers--storylines otherwise should not affect the death match.
So this begs the earlier asked question: Horocruxes or not?  :-\
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Offline Delling

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Re: A fight to the death!
« Reply #36 on: June 21, 2011, 07:13:11 AM »
*rereads thread while model runs on computer*

*realizes that while he commented from the sidelines, he never actually weighed in*

Well, firstly, I'd like to say that this is a much more reasonable question than the "Gandalf v. Dumbledore" or "Gandalf/Sauron/Saruman v. Voldemort" type questions: the magic-users of Tolkien's world if not elves were generally incarnate nature spirits, cf. Gandalf the Grey and Gandalf the White--they didn't so much die as go away and decide whether or not they wanted to come back/be sent back. (Sauron and Saruman had both fallen... there were no dark Valar to reincarnate them (even if that were how it works) b/c... Morgoth and that whole Silmarillion thing...). Here both characters are mortal and their essential types under all their trappings of evil and power are the same.

Also, one last thing: Voldemort needs his wand to use magic, but Vader doesn't need his lightsaber to use the Force; it's just handy to have. So if the fight ever got to the stage where they were disarming each other, Vader would have a considerable advantage, since if he could snatch Voldy's wand out of his hand with the force, Voldy would be pretty much defenceless.
This. This has always struck me as a somewhat silly limitation of wizards in J.K.'s universe (bear in mind: I'm more a DnD/Tolkien-type). IIRC, Rowling has come out and said that wands are not an absolute necessity for magic, but that they are a considerable aid in focusing the energies involved, etc. Still, while Voldy flew unaided, he didn't to my knowledge ever demonstrate the ability to use magic without a wand. (Were I a magically gifted person in that universe, that however would have been one of my long-term goals in the study of magic as it clearly would have presented an uncommon advantage, and it seems odd to me that none of the more senior wizards had at least tried to do this.)

I think we should say the fight happens when both villains are at the peak of their powers--storylines otherwise should not affect the death match.
So this begs the earlier asked question: Horocruxes or not?  :-\
Without the horcruxes littering the battlefield around them for Vader to figure out and destroy, their existence gives Voldemort a near instant win. As it is "to the death" not "to a death", Voldemort can repeatedly die and return to attack Vader again. If Vader doesn't know how, he would probably eventually lose or force a stalemate by imprisoning Voldemort in a manner such that he didn't die and could not gain access to magical materials. If Vader sought out an answer, then it seems we get Vader hunting down the horcruxes. (This all assumes Vader can kill Voldemort repeatedly; see below.) So, I have to say Not. Height of Voldemort's power without having made horcruxes. (Do horcruxes also contain a portion of Voldemort's power (making them even more like Sauron + One Ring)?... (though that's doubtful because we would have expected Voldemort to keep them near him then)

Vader's mastery of the Force is such that he wields telekinesis at will (without the mental struggles displayed by Luke). Voldemort's powers are not at will but require an utterance, etc. It seems then that Vader would easily disarm Voldemort and probably shortly thereafter realize that Voldemort is little more than human when he doesn't have magical means at hand. (This relies somewhat on Vader's comprehension of what Voldemort is doing.)

If Vader doesn't understand what is going on and if Voldemort opens with the killing curse, Voldemort could well win.

Vader: disarm, kill->force telekinesis
Voldemort: killing curse; requires Vader to not recognize the attack for what it is (perhaps he finds it laughable, etc.)->magic, duh

Giving Vader the benefit of the doubt in terms of perceiving the threat to be a threat, Vader's ability to exert physical forces on others to their disarmament, physical harm, and death (probably in that order too in this case) AT WILL and WITHOUT NEED OF EXTERNAL AID nicely hands him the victory.


EDIT/UPDATE: Apparently, according to the HP wiki, wandless magic is a lot more prevalent in the film adaptations while in the books magic is almost exclusively performed with wands (except for under-age magic which is done without great focus or control as a sort of magical self-defense or tantrum). I should further point out that most of my knowledge of the HP-universe is secondhand or from the films. :P Still, I already voted and I can't change that now though I'm not sure whether I would or not.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2011, 07:34:15 AM by Delling »
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Offline LadyTerra

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Re: A fight to the death!
« Reply #37 on: June 21, 2011, 06:45:43 PM »
Remember another power Vader has with the force: he can sense changes to the natural order.  If this applies to magic as well, then Vader would have no problem finding the Horcruxes.
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Offline KatieHal

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Re: A fight to the death!
« Reply #38 on: June 21, 2011, 09:25:11 PM »
Hmm....well, another facet to add then: do the fighters have knowledge of what their opponents are capable of beforehand? Are we running this thing like a haphazard pit fight where you have no idea who's coming at you next from the crowd, or a UFC championship where you prepare ahead of time, study your opponent and he studies you? The latter would change things quite a bit.

I have to argue against Vader being able to locate the horcruxes no problem. Dude didn't even know his kids were alive for a good long time and had no idea at all about Leia being his daughter until he (more or less) read Luke's mind. And while hidden, those two were not exactly impossible to find if he'd really been trying.

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Offline Delling

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Re: A fight to the death!
« Reply #39 on: June 22, 2011, 04:02:32 AM »
Remember another power Vader has with the force: he can sense changes to the natural order.  If this applies to magic as well, then Vader would have no problem finding the Horcruxes.

Hmm... at most, he'd probably be able to tell there was something "unnatural" about Voldemort (if magical effects counted as something unnatural): I'd like to remind everyone at this juncture that Force based ESP is utter crap. Obi-Wan could sense the destruction of a planet lightyears away while the entire Jedi counsel could not detect that Palpatine was a Sith or at least had force abilities while he was at times no more than a few feet from Yoda himself. ::) Yeah, sure...
« Last Edit: June 22, 2011, 04:04:52 AM by Delling »
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