Author Topic: A Father's Love  (Read 3345 times)

Offline Brain Stew

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A Father's Love
« on: February 16, 2013, 09:14:30 AM »
Just finished episode 2 and I'm loving it so far but I have to call you out on the writing of Erica's father, Brian Reed. I felt their phone call, following Erica's panic attack when she finds the eyeball, rang a false note. A parent's first concern isn't about whether their child succeeds, it's about their well-being. The peptalk Brian gives Erica basically encourages her to put herself in harm's way. I just don't believe that a man who lost a son and almost lost his daughter would not try and dissuade her from endangering herself further. I understand that he's got a police background and that one could read his behavior as supportive but Erica is involved in something big and she's reckless, the first words out of his mouth should probably have been, "I heard about, Davies. Erica, you're too close to this. It's too dangerous. Come home. Let someone else handle it, please."
“Perhaps when we find ourselves wanting everything, it is because we are dangerously close to wanting nothing.” -S.P.

Offline stika

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Re: A Father's Love
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2013, 10:00:17 AM »
Hey, Brain Stew, welcome to the forums!
Love the Max Avatar by the way, I used to read the Sam and Max' webcomic as well :)

Haven't played Episode 2 yet so I can't really comment, but regardless, thank you for your feedback :D

and don't worry, I'm sure either Katie or Cez (the writers) will reply to you soon
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Offline Brain Stew

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Re: A Father's Love
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2013, 11:24:00 AM »
Thanks. It's nice to be here. Cognition came out of nowhere for me and has been such a pleasant surprise.

I just wish Steve Purcell would make more of 'em. As much as I enjoyed Telltales' version, there's something inimitably charming about Sam and Max when he's in charge of them.
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Offline Say

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Re: A Father's Love
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2013, 12:03:26 PM »
Thank you Brain!

Feedback has been wonderful this week. Unfortunately, I don't think there's much to be said about that point, however, it is important to shed some light on these things because there's still other episodes in production and the designers need to know the impact of the story in those who have played the game.

Whether it makes sense or not, it's vital to always pick up on these things for what's left of Cognition work :)


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Offline stika

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Re: A Father's Love
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2013, 04:09:14 PM »
Thanks. It's nice to be here. Cognition came out of nowhere for me and has been such a pleasant surprise.

I just wish Steve Purcell would make more of 'em. As much as I enjoyed Telltales' version, there's something inimitably charming about Sam and Max when he's in charge of them.
agreed, I bought the Sam and Max comic book compilation from Telltale a few years ago and I loved it to pieces.

as much as I love the S&M games (insert your own joke here) they're much funnier in the comics
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Offline KatieHal

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Re: A Father's Love
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2013, 07:29:30 AM »
Hi Brain, welcome to the forums!

That's an interesting observation, and I definitely see where you're coming from with it. So, allow me to get in depth on where I was coming from in writing it. :)

Brian does indeed love his daughter and is worried about her, this much is obvious. However, Erica is a grown woman (32 during this game, in fact), she's tough, stubborn, good at her job as well as dedicated to it, and she doesn't abandon the people she cares about, especially when they need her and are in danger. It's why she did everything she did to try and save Scott. Brian knows his daughter, and he knows that even if he asked, she'd never just give up, not a chance. She's chosen this career, this life, and regardless of the danger, she isn't going to quit because he asks her to, and he respects her choices (nor, in my opinion, should he ask, but that's a tangent into the feminist side of things, which wasn't your question).

So, his daughter is in the middle of this, it IS dangerous, and she's going to see it through: he knows all this. He was a cop himself, he also understands where she's coming from, her mindset. But she calls him because she's freaking out over what she's just now seen. The best thing he can do, and what Erica needs from him, is something to distract her for a minute, calm her down, and at the same time remind her that she IS tough as nails and can get through this. It's not about giving her the tools for success--that's a by-product of giving her the tools to survive. There's no chance she's going to leave this situation, so he's doing what he can to make sure she gets through it.

And he does remind her to be careful, that he loves and doesn't want to lose her, and to pursue justice and not revenge (ostensibly the more reckless and dangerous goal of the two), after she's recovered.

So, I hope that helps shed some light on their conversation and why he says what he says to her. I'm really glad to hear you're enjoying the game! :)
« Last Edit: February 17, 2013, 09:40:19 AM by KatieHal »

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Offline Brain Stew

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Re: A Father's Love
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2013, 09:26:02 AM »
Hi Katie!

Thanks for the long reply. It's very cool to be able to open a dialogue with the people behind the creation of a game.

I read what you wrote and it does make sense. I'd even offer the interpretation that Brian put Erica's needs ahead of his own in this instance.

« Last Edit: February 17, 2013, 09:36:43 AM by Brain Stew »
“Perhaps when we find ourselves wanting everything, it is because we are dangerously close to wanting nothing.” -S.P.

Offline KatieHal

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Re: A Father's Love
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2013, 09:41:23 AM »
Yeah, that's probably a more succinct way of putting it, hehe :) No problem! It's cool to get feedback from our players and fans and be able to talk with them about our games. We're always looking to hear what we're doing well or not so well so we can keep improving.

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Offline Deloria

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Re: A Father's Love
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2013, 10:06:56 AM »
The thing is, Katie, people have second thoughts when things get really, really dangerous. :P And even if Erica isn't considering leaving, it's dangerous enough that Brian should be telling her that, if she does want to get out of it, she's able to and allowed to.
 
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Offline Brain Stew

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Re: A Father's Love
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2013, 04:00:25 PM »
Speaking of fictional father/daughter relationships, have any of you ever seen the TV show Veronica Mars about the teen sleuth? I loved the relationship between Veronica and her private eye/ex-sherriff father, Keith Mars. That was another good example of a father who knew he couldn't stop his daughter from getting into dangerous situations so he prepared her as best he could. Albeit in the case of that show she was still in high school and needed a lot more protecting. What really stood out in the show was the way the two played off each other and how when Veronica got in over her head, Keith never minced words or spared her feelings in assuring that she got home safely. I also loved how sincerely Veronica hated to disappoint him. There was always a fragile trust between them that each of them bent but tried their best not to ever break. If you haven't seen the series, it's brilliant. Possibly the best thing about the show, aside from the father/daughter relationship, was how they avoided turning Veronica into a superhero, instead getting her out of precarious dilemmas by her wits and resourcefulness.
“Perhaps when we find ourselves wanting everything, it is because we are dangerously close to wanting nothing.” -S.P.

Offline KatieHal

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Re: A Father's Love
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2013, 04:18:17 PM »
I have and I LOVE that show!! That relationship is fantastically written and portrayed. I'm constantly sad that show isn't on anymore.

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Offline Deloria

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Re: A Father's Love
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2013, 05:12:11 PM »
I don't think that show exactly lauds that though. If anything, it ends up pointing out how misguided that approach can be because really, really terrible things end up happening to her.
 
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Offline KatieHal

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Re: A Father's Love
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2013, 05:43:02 PM »
She does, true. A good portion of that is her own fault, though, and as Veronica points out at one point, they are a family full of well-intentioned lies. (Which often bites them in the ass.)

Regardless of much trouble they do or don't get in because of it, though, I love how they generally respect each other, work together, and always have each other's back. Sometimes Veronica does things way out of her league, and sometimes her dad tries to shelter when she's already well past the point of being sheltered. But they love each other, and it does show how they feel disappointed when they let the other down.

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Offline Deloria

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Re: A Father's Love
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2013, 05:34:18 AM »
Though it might be argued that having a more normal relationship with her father may have prevented her from being raped a second time and may have helped her deal with the first one in a more productive way. :P I don't think the show is saying their abnormal dynamic is necessarily a good thing. :P
 
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Offline KatieHal

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Re: A Father's Love
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2013, 06:25:45 AM »
A second time? She ended up being roofied more than once, but she wasn't actually raped a second time.

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Offline Deloria

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Re: A Father's Love
« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2013, 06:41:56 AM »
Huh. I must have misremembered the disturbing scene in the parking garage. :P
 
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Offline Delling

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Re: A Father's Love
« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2013, 07:27:35 AM »
I thought she was too, actually (though I thought it was the guy in the second season)... clearly we must rewatch the series... ... but I don't think I'll be up for Logan-pong any time soon: "I never want to see you again *gets back together with him*" ::)
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Offline KatieHal

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Re: A Father's Love
« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2013, 07:54:30 AM »
Yeah, she got drugged and that guy cut off some of her hair, but she wasn't raped a second time.

Ugh, Long-pong. I really liked their dynamic and chemistry, the actors were great, but I hated their relationship in the 3rd season. Stupid network tampering BS ruined a lot of things in that season (and then they cancelled it, booo).

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Offline Cez

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Re: A Father's Love
« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2013, 10:01:53 PM »
I don't think Erica would ever consider leaving, and Brian probably tried that a thousand times with Scott's case. Hell, everyone did, and still she went on with it all the way to stabbing her own legs and pulled a gun on McCoy to save her brother. Brian might be just a bit tad tired of trying to do that. At least that's how I see their relation.

Whether it's the best relation, just like Veronica and her dad's, that's a different thing altogether. I wouldn't go to say either is the best relation, as Erica's personality probably comes from having to manage on her own for times Brian wasn't around, but it is their relationship. I think Veronica's and dad show well the lack of a mother figure in the relation, and the same kind of happened with Erica, she raised Scott on her own and had to take care of her dad, and not the other way around. 


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