Author Topic: Plot-holes (spoilers)  (Read 34726 times)

Offline Cez

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Re: Plot-holes (spoilers)
« Reply #40 on: March 01, 2011, 02:24:39 PM »
I thought it was said in Episode 2 that the Pandora's Box and Zodia Stone were one and the same thing?

I though its been suggesting that Shadrack is trapped there, along with the Shadows?

Nope, they are not the same. And nowhere in the stories that the Ranger and Shamir tell it's said that they are the same thing. Again, there's a lot of back story that still needs to be explained.


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Offline Lambonius

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Re: Plot-holes (spoilers)
« Reply #41 on: March 01, 2011, 07:25:54 PM »
My question is: if you replace the name "Shadrack" with "Voldemort," and "The Black Cloaks" with "The Death Eaters," is this not basically Harry Potter with a King's Quest skin?  ;)

Offline Arkillian

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Re: Plot-holes (spoilers)
« Reply #42 on: March 01, 2011, 07:29:34 PM »
Would it stop you playing the game if it where? Every plot is similar to another if you boil it down far enough. It's HOW you tell the story that matters.


Offline glottal

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Re: Plot-holes (spoilers)
« Reply #43 on: March 01, 2011, 07:35:56 PM »
And then who would be Harry Potter? Alexander?  Actually, that makes sense...

James (& Lily?) Potter to the rescue!! :P

But I don't mind at all, it's a great game Harry Potterish or not, so play I will.

Offline Enchantermon

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Re: Plot-holes (spoilers)
« Reply #44 on: March 01, 2011, 08:15:23 PM »
Would it stop you playing the game if it where? Every plot is similar to another if you boil it down far enough. It's HOW you tell the story that matters.
I'm pretty sure he was just kidding around. ;)
So what if I am, huh? Anyways, I work better when I'm drunk. It makes me fearless! If I see a bad guy, I'll just point my sword at him and saaaaaaaaaay, "Hey! Bad guy! You're not s'posed to be here! Go home or I'll stick you with my sword 'til you go, 'Ouch! I'm dead!' Ah-ha-ha!" Ha-ha. *hic* See? Ain't no one gonna be messin' wit' ol', Benny!

Offline Arkillian

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Re: Plot-holes (spoilers)
« Reply #45 on: March 01, 2011, 08:22:41 PM »
Perhaps. My apologies if I don't pick up on sarcasm too easily. The internet isn't efficient at conveying emotion. I'm not too good with sarcasm without the net let alone with it :/ I can never tell.


Offline Enchantermon

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Re: Plot-holes (spoilers)
« Reply #46 on: March 01, 2011, 08:41:38 PM »
Just remember this and this. :)
So what if I am, huh? Anyways, I work better when I'm drunk. It makes me fearless! If I see a bad guy, I'll just point my sword at him and saaaaaaaaaay, "Hey! Bad guy! You're not s'posed to be here! Go home or I'll stick you with my sword 'til you go, 'Ouch! I'm dead!' Ah-ha-ha!" Ha-ha. *hic* See? Ain't no one gonna be messin' wit' ol', Benny!

Offline Lambonius

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Re: Plot-holes (spoilers)
« Reply #47 on: March 01, 2011, 08:52:45 PM »
I did give it my best winking smiley. 

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Re: Plot-holes (spoilers)
« Reply #48 on: March 04, 2011, 11:45:32 PM »
My question is: if you replace the name "Shadrack" with "Voldemort," and "The Black Cloaks" with "The Death Eaters," is this not basically Harry Potter with a King's Quest skin?  ;)

Harry Potter meets Star Wars, with a dash of KQ thrown in.

Offline sebpod

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Re: Plot-holes (spoilers)
« Reply #49 on: March 18, 2011, 10:06:13 AM »
It's actually that KQ is to Star Wars, as TSL is more and more to the prequel Episodes 1,2,3 after the original 4,5,6.

You can probably make a mathematical equation and show that as episode number rises, TSL --> Star Wars prequels.

Offline Damar

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Re: Plot-holes (spoilers)
« Reply #50 on: March 26, 2011, 03:09:04 PM »
Don't know if I'd go that far.  Mainly because TSL doesn't have the telling aroma of George Lucas scat that the prequels do.

I have to agree that none of these can be called plot holes when the plot hasn't been entirely told yet.  It reminds me of people who get into political debates by saying, "Obama (or George W back when he was in office) is the worst president ever!"  Well, setting aside the fact that you're ranking them as worse than, say, Harding who was inept, Buchanan who let the country fall apart, Pierce who was a clinically depressed alcholic, or Jackson who actively participated in genocide, they also haven't finished their term!  Seriously, are you so partisan and filled with hate towards others that you can't even wait to declare a sitting president to be the most epic fail in the past two centuries?  Really?

The story isn't finished.  You might hate the story.  You might think it's not King's Quest.  You might think it's melodramatic and can never be fully brought together to a satisfactory conclusion.  And you know what?  Maybe you'll end up being right.  But for now, none of this is a plot hole.  It's impossible for an unfinished plot to have a hole in it.

Also, I just have to point out my favorite "plot hole" is the one regarding the enchanter tricking Edward out of the mirror that begins with "I presume that...".  I think that answers your objection, dude!  You can't just presume an important piece of information then call it a plot hole!  I think it goes without saying but obviously Random Wizard Who Freezes You (that was his full name.  I checked the KQ Companion.  Really) wasn't a Black Cloak!  That's like saying, "I presume that the kleptomaniac dwarf was a Black Cloak, so why didn't he just take the Mirror off of Graham instead of other random treasures?"  Or, maybe the writers are going with the original KQ1 in which we were never told that Edward lost the treasures.  In fact, we were never told Edward even had the treasures.  Ed just hears about them and sends his most powerful knight to obtain them by any means necessary.  Which is probably the most historically accurate medieval thing ever to be in King's Quest.

Offline kindofdoon

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Re: Plot-holes (spoilers)
« Reply #51 on: March 26, 2011, 05:06:26 PM »
Mainly because TSL doesn't have the telling aroma of George Lucas scat that the prequels do.

The prequels aren't on the level of IV-VI, but they aren't as bad as people on the Internet seem to think, either, imo. I personally enjoyed them very much. Anakin's acting in I is terrible, and Jar Jar is annoying. Otherwise, I-III have satisfying action and character development that frames IV-VI well.

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Offline KatieHal

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Re: Plot-holes (spoilers)
« Reply #52 on: March 27, 2011, 11:05:51 AM »
I think the acting is the real downfall of the prequels, versus the story being the biggest issue. There were some story bits that weren't great, but yeah, the fact that Anakin was acted horribly really makes hard to like. You need to have a good leading man if your entire three movies are *about* said leading man and everyone knows that going in.

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Offline kindofdoon

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Re: Plot-holes (spoilers)
« Reply #53 on: March 27, 2011, 12:09:33 PM »
I actually didn't mind Anakin in II-III. He did a pretty good job of portraying his descent towards to the Dark Side.

Anakin in I is pretty bad though.

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Offline Baggins

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Re: Plot-holes (spoilers)
« Reply #54 on: March 27, 2011, 02:17:27 PM »
I had no problem with Anakin in II-III, I just hated his mug being inserted into IV!
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

Offline kindofdoon

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Re: Plot-holes (spoilers)
« Reply #55 on: March 27, 2011, 02:29:53 PM »
Yes, that was egregiously wrong.

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Offline Damar

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Re: Plot-holes (spoilers)
« Reply #56 on: March 27, 2011, 04:31:50 PM »
Actually the actors all around are pretty good, and some are very good.  Well except kid Anakin of course.  I still bust out laughing whenever I think of the line, "Are you an angel?" with that shrill, memorized delivery.  The problem with the acting is that these decent actors have to say lines written by George Lucas, which are among the most unemotional, banal, simplistic words ever placed on paper.  By anyone.  Anywhere.  And they have to say most of those horrifically written lines while walking and talking in front of a green screen.  Sir Alec Guinness himself could come back to life to act in the prequels (which he wouldn't since he hated Star Wars with a passion) and not even he could have pulled off a convincing delivery of those lines in front of a green screen.

Really, the prequels are horrific.  Lucas can't write and he can't even really direct.  Everything is so flat and unimaginative, except for the CGI which runs rampant and is completely gratuitous.  I agree that the internet "George Lucas raped my childhood" guys are ridiculous though.  I don't care how badly Lucas sucks, he can't rob you of your childhood (I'd use that same argument on the doomsayers that shout the same thing about TSL or Telltale getting the right to do King's Quest.)  Your memories are your own and your childhood is your own.  That said, the prequels are among some of the worst all-around films I've seen.  And I've seen the worst that MST3K had to offer.  At least those films are schlock done by amateurs.  The prequels don't have that excuse and they were made and released by people who should have known better.

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Re: Plot-holes (spoilers)
« Reply #57 on: March 27, 2011, 04:55:58 PM »
The writing was indeed pretty lacking. The thing is you could still notice how much better people like Ewan McGregor and Liam Neesan were over the really bad actors (Hayden Christiansen). Natalie Portman was...not at her best in those films either, suffice to say.

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Offline crayauchtin

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Re: Plot-holes (spoilers)
« Reply #58 on: March 27, 2011, 10:15:39 PM »
I think one of the issues people are having with TSL and it's "plot holes" is the assumption that the deaths you can have happen in all the games are canon. They're not. If they were, the series would have been much shorter because all the characters would be dead.

When we RP in WoW we always point out: game mechanics =/= lore. In other words, things that are part of the game are not necessarily part of the story. The fact that Hagatha can catch and eat Graham in the game is more to add an obstacle than it is to be a part of the story -- all that there is in the story, is that Hagatha is there and she seems to chase after Graham.

Yes, in KQ3, if you do something wrong Mannanan kills you -- it's an obstacle for the game. In canon, however, Mannanan never kills you (or KQ4, 5, & 6 would be verrrrrryyyyy short games :P). The deaths aren't canon, because they didn't happen. Therefore, it's not a plot hole to say they didn't happen. That's really all TSL has done.
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Offline Lambonius

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Re: Plot-holes (spoilers)
« Reply #59 on: March 28, 2011, 09:14:40 AM »
The deaths aren't canon, because they didn't happen. Therefore, it's not a plot hole to say they didn't happen. That's really all TSL has done.

Yeah, but the Manannan thing isn't about whether or not he killed Alex, it's about whether or not he INTENDED to do so, which is explicitly stated in every bit of official KQ3 backstory material that has ever been released.  If you want to ignore that, fine, but don't try to argue that it was always ambiguous, because that's just patently false.