KQIX Project shuts down

[GunHoMac]

Probably something like this...

[Tawmis]

Argh! First, I am sorry to hear that VU has come knocking on your door and have asked for it all to cease and fold.

That is very depressing. Especially after all the hard work that was done and how incredible it was looking.

That said, it can sort of be taken as a compliment. There's PLENTY of other sites out there that are building "unofficial" sequels to games. (I even helped briefly with one of them for Space Quest). And most of those sites - they will never hear from VU.

Why?

Because they lack what it takes to pull it together. To make it all happen. With incredibel graphics, beautiful music, great characters, and great writing.

VU saw that KQ9 was being done here - and they could have chalked it up for another would be unofficial sequel. However, I think they saw the graphics, the depth, and how far you guys have gotten - and thought, "Hey, these guys are going to pull this off."

So consider your product good enough to get VU's attention. And making them feel threatened.

I, personally, think it's insane. Unless VU plans on doing a KQ9, they should have let this happen. There was no intent to challenge copyrights, money being made, or anything that would have under handed VU in some way. If anything, a free, unofficial, beautifully done KQ9 would have sparked more interest in VU, the King's Quest series, and probably sales of the pre-orders of the KQ Collection.

However, I am sure there's legal bits that force them to take action to protect their "trademarks."

That said - having all of that talent - what I would do is take the KQ9 storyline. Do some tweaking, some changing of the characters, their backgrounds, etc - and take the over all concept and come up with an entirely original story. You have already developed a huge supporting fanbase. It's not like it would be wasted effort.

You could even, with an original product, make some side money. Make it so that anyone who donates to the site's paypal account of 10 or 20 bucks - will be given the URL to download the game when it's completed.

I hope to see SOMEthign come out of you guys. You have incredible talent, supporting fans... what more do you really need?

We've waited this long for an unfficial KQ9 - we'd be willing to wait longer for an original piece, rest assured.

[Storm]

...If POS (or whatever organization owns KQIX) is organized correctly, VU could end up suing without any potential of monetary gain... If KQIX is owned by a non-profit organization / corporation, then VU's lawsuit would have to be against that corporation, which is legally the "individual" that owns KQIX.  Let's pretend that the coporation that owns KQIX is called "KQIXCorp".  Now, if VU wanted to sue KQIXCorp for copyright infringement over KQIX, then, upon winning the lawsuit, VU would be entitled to some portion (perhaps all) of KQIXCorp's assets.  Note, however, that although KQIXCorp may be owned by any number of other individuals or entities (the POS team, etc), the owner's assets should remain untouchable--that's one of the purposes of a corporation, by acting as a legal entity it protects other individuals (owners, employees, etc.) from being liable for things the corporation does.

So, if KQIXCorp has NO monetary assets, then VU very well couldn't collect any money from winning a lawsuit, even if every one of KQIXCorp's employees/owners were a multi-billionaire.  However, one important thing to remember, is that KQIXCorp had better have been organized perfectly (with respect to the law), or its owners and/or employees could be held liable.

I don't think you're right about that. Maybe that stuff applies when corporations go under, and their owners/CEOs get to keep all the millions they made instead of paying the creditors. However, if VU does decide to sue, it can name both the individuals and the organization/corporation as defendants.
This is clearly shown here.

All that aside, companies (and sometimes even people) don't always sue just for monetary gain. Usually, companies would sue you for an unpaid bill even if you're broke and the lawyer fees are higher than your debt to them, simply because it's really bad business to let people get away with not paying.

Another point worth making - on the above-linked complaint, VU also sues for trademark violation, claiming the defendant named his domain 'BNETD' as shorthand for their trademarked BATTLE.NET. This goes to show using the acronym 'KQIX' isn't necessarily 'safer' than using the full name. A rather moot point right now, but still...

[dark-daventry]

Hi

I haven't posted here in a while. This whole situation has been very upsetting to me, and I know it has been for everyone else too )= I've been a big fan *cough obsessed cough* of King's Quest for 10 years now, been playing the games since I was 5. I'm now 15, and there are really no games out there that are quite as enjoyable to me as KQ is. With POS' KQIX in the works, it seemed (especially this year) the Sierra fan community, and the gaming community itself was really anticipating KQIX. I know I was.
There was so much happiness within the fan network of KQ that most likely hadn't been seen in years. It seemed King's Quest, and adventure gaming itself was beginning a big revival. The KQ Omnipedia, the number of fan games in the work, the upcoming KQ Compilation. King's Quest was beginning to regain it's old popularity. That's also confirmed by the previous KQ Compilation sale rankings on such a large vendor as Amazon.com. Even the major game press was beginning to take notice of this new KQIX. Then, bad things began to happen. First Sierraplanet.com was closed, then came  SpaceQuest.net site tragedy, then POS received that horrible C+D letter.
When I heard of it, I was crushed. Then the KQ Compilation was pushed back to January. It seemed, to me, the world of KQ, after coming back from the dead, was being killed all over again. The King's Quest Omnipedia, no one really updates it these days.
I'm sorry for ranting, but....
Anyway, this last month and 1/2 has been upsetting, and I truly hope that the team can come to some arrangement with Vivendi, and hopefully soon. You guys, the work you lived and breathed on KQIX for the last four years, the awesome job you did, it will not go to waste. I've written two letters to VU myself, and hopefully the letters and support of everyone else here will be heard!

Dude, I feel the same way. I started KQ when I was around 5 as well. My dad introduced it to me, and ever since, I've been hooked. I'm now 14, and probably the youngest KQ fan alive. If not, then I'll be a monkey's uncle. The KQ world did seem to be coming back, and then time had to go and repeat itself. But I just have a feeling KQIX and POS will be fine. I feel like this cancellation brought a community forgotten together once more, and formed a power not even VU can destroy. They unknowingly unleashed the wrath of fans everywhere. I intend to use every ounce of my rights as an American, and as a human to let VU know how mad we, the fans. are. It's been ages since the KQ community came together, and finally it's happened. I think we have more power than a company like VU can ever have. True power lies within the fan, not the company. Look at Family Guy. The fans were angry at Fox, and demanded it returned, and their wish has been fullfilled. We here at KQIX have an advantage that VU can never have. We have the community. We have a voice that can be heard above the screams of terror of citizens. Together, we the fans, will rise once more, and will revive KQIX! I pledge Alligence to the POS of the world. I pledge alligence to the fan community. I pledge alligence to every single participent in KQIX, and that includes the fan community. You are right, TheReturnofDMD, about the coming down of KQ once more. But I can see a light at the end of the tunnel. I can see a bright light that tells me the fan community will win. It's just a gut feeling I have. I hope that people here feel the same way.

Probably something like this...

AHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! NOOOO!!!!!!!  I think I'm going to be sick!

[LJUBI]

King Graham said that he will keep OUR dream ALIVE so please keep it alive don't let it die, don't cause this is fight betvean LOVE and bussines!!!

We bealive in you  

[Flubly]

Probably something like this...

Mordack: Graham, you aint no pimp dude.
Graham: Where's my money?
Mordack: Nevermind.
Graham: Man, you don't just bring that s**t in on brothers mothaf***er... I'm gonna go play 50cent bulletproof.

[TribeHasSpoken]

Just change the name and the charachters.   We all know what it's about.

We need to have a counter on this site for the number of times this suggestion has been made.

[Sinue]

I wonder if, and how, VU's reaction might have changed would King's Quest XI been built as a mod or total conversion of King's Quest VIII: Mask of Eternity. On the one hand, it would still be infringing on their copyrights. On the other - doing this would have REQUIRED the player to purchase King's Quest VIII from them, boosting their sales.

Best case scenario - I could see them allowing it, and putting KQVIII back into limited production for the increased demand. Perhaps even asking to contract certain members of POS to become full time staff such as what happened with Counter Strike. (Though CS didn't use any intellectual copyrights I know)

Worse case - they would have still closed it down and saw the increased demand in KQVIII leading up to KQIX's release as a sign that people wanted more games like it - validating the change in direction the series and other adventure game travesties like Leisure Suit Larry: MCL have brought.

On a slightly different note, while I'm excited about VU re-distributing many of their older adventure game series in compilation packs - I can't help but feel a bit dissapointed. Most PC gamers who are interested in the titles already own them. I think a larger un-tapped market would have been the console market. Perhaps they should have released copies of these compilations on the PS2 as well through emulation - since it's both plenty powerful enough and has USB Keyboard/Mouse support out of the box. Not to mention that compilations are hot products these days, with Konami, Capcom, Intellivision, Coleco, Taito, Sega, Namco, Atari, and several other companies releasing their classic games in collection packs. I know quite a few gamers who never even played the originals - yet still buy these up because they love old games.

I wonder how well a Sierra or LucasArts compilation pack would do? Of course - the FMV games might be a bit hard to transfer over. Granted, DVD's have a lot of storage space - but games like Gabriel Knight II: Beast Within wouldn't fit - or would take up nearly all the available space.

[Skeptikal]

[...] but games like Gabriel Knight II: Beast Within wouldn't fit - or would take up nearly all the available space.

Now that you mention it, I remember that I was once in love with this game... as a matter of fact I love the Gabriel Knight series too

[TheDave]

...If POS (or whatever organization owns KQIX) is organized correctly, VU could end up suing without any potential of monetary gain... If KQIX is owned by a non-profit organization / corporation, then VU's lawsuit would have to be against that corporation, which is legally the "individual" that owns KQIX.  ... or its owners and/or employees could be held liable.

I don't think you're right about that. Maybe that stuff applies when corporations go under, and their owners/CEOs get to keep all the millions they made instead of paying the creditors. However, if VU does decide to sue, it can name both the individuals and the organization/corporation as defendants.
This is clearly shown here.

All that aside, companies (and sometimes even people) don't always sue just for monetary gain. Usually, companies would sue you for an unpaid bill even if you're broke and the lawyer fees are higher than your debt to them, simply because it's really bad business to let people get away with not paying.

Another point worth making - on the above-linked complaint, VU also sues for trademark violation, claiming the defendant named his domain 'BNETD' as shorthand for their trademarked BATTLE.NET. This goes to show using the acronym 'KQIX' isn't necessarily 'safer' than using the full name. A rather moot point right now, but still...

As far as the BNETD case goes, there are some distinct differences between my hypothetical situation and BNETD: 1) the company being sued is the ISP that hosted BNETD, which competed with battle.net. That company was not involved in the development of BNETD and didn't own it.  Rather, it was providing a service that Blizzard claimed exclusive rights to provide.  2) BNETD was owned and distributed by an individual, namely, Tim Jung.  He developed and was liable for BNETD.  In my hypothetical situation KQIXCorp was liable for KQIX, not an individual employed by KQIXCorp.  3) The link Storm posted states claims of infringement by Tim Jung and his ISP against Blizzard.  Anyone can file suit / claim infringement against anyone else over whatever they'd like.  Just because suit is filed, doesn't mean the claim is a legal one.  I could sue Storm for criticizing my earlier post, but it doesn't mean I'd have any legal claim  (No hard feelings, Storm--I only meant that as a illustrative example--your comments and critique are both welcomed and appreciated).

Regardless of the differences between this situation and BNETD, I think maybe I didn't convey my point correctly.  What I was trying to emphasize is that a company must be organized correctly (according to the law) in order to protect other related parties from liability.  The main emphasis here is that it must be done correctly.  Granted, I'm not a lawyer, but I know one who does business law and he says that legally organized businesses prevent others from being liable in lawsuits.

At any rate, I never claimed that POS (or whoever actually owns KQIX) was set up correctly, in fact, I would guess that they aren't.  I was just posing a hypothetical scenario to illustrate that 1) a legal pathway exists that could prevent VU from getting money from a lawsuit and 2) VU would still get KQIX source and design if they won.  I was just imagining this hypothetical scenario because it presents an interesting economical/legal question: If the economic cost of suing exceeds the benefit in winning the case, would an individual sue even if it's within their rights?  I would suggest that the answer is No.  Note, however, that the full economic gain in winning the case needs to be considered; i.e., that includes the preventative effect that a win will have on other possible transgressors, name / trademark dilution etc.

Finally, I agree fully that the use of King's Quest in the title of KQIX most certainly qualifies as trademark violation.  The development of KQIX clearly (from trailers / development journals, etc) infringes on many rights, but I never suggested that they didn't.  I was just claiming that proper business organization could prevent VU from gaining monetarily from a sucessful lawsuit.

[Storm]

As far as the BNETD case goes, there are some distinct differences between my hypothetical situation and BNETD: 1) the company being sued is the ISP that hosted BNETD, which competed with battle.net. That company was not involved in the development of BNETD and didn't own it.  Rather, it was providing a service that Blizzard claimed exclusive rights to provide.  2) BNETD was owned and distributed by an individual, namely, Tim Jung.  He developed and was liable for BNETD.  In my hypothetical situation KQIXCorp was liable for KQIX, not an individual employed by KQIXCorp. 

I dunno, from what I've read it seems they were suing both him AND Internet Gateway (which he happens to be the president of) not for developing or even distributing BNETD, but for providing the Internet service

I was just imagining this hypothetical scenario because it presents an interesting economical/legal question: If the economic cost of suing exceeds the benefit in winning the case, would an individual sue even if it's within their rights?  I would suggest that the answer is No.  Note, however, that the full economic gain in winning the case needs to be considered; i.e., that includes the preventative effect that a win will have on other possible transgressors, name / trademark dilution etc.

A company would probably sue, since companies usually have much more resources to spend, and much more to lose from copyrights/trademark dilution. Individuals would sue for the principle's sake only if they're really rich and/or really bored

[Boogeyman]

Spirits of Mist,
And Creatures of Bog:
Transform The Critic
To the shape of a Frog!

[Sad Guest]

Wow, I am so sorry guys. I've just been a guest at the site checking back every few months to see how things were working out and now it's shut down! If Vivendi had given a logical reason for this I would probably be content, but it just seems so unfair that right when you guys are finishing it they tear it down. It's almost a slap in the face!

I really am sorry guys, it looked like it would have been really great. And true the graphics might not be the most amazing ones out but there was a lot of heart put into them and I was getting pretty excited for it. Good luck to you all.

[LJUBI]

Yup we are in. 
And now let's do some saveing

[Warlock]

After having had to yet again delete some messages, I feel the need to remind you all to keep the tone sober and not quarrel.

[Deloria]

Strictly speaking, I don't know why VU is bothering us. While the number of fans is still somewhat large, it's nowhere as big as it was fifteen/twenty years ago when it sold around 30000 copies. 

[joeschmo9991]

Here's an idea. The game is, without VU's knowledge, finished (they aren't sitting in your office and watching your computer) and is released over a filesharing program, such as Limewire or BearShare. Until the RIAA shuts them down, the program is now in circulation and out of VU's hands. If VU goes after the creators, just explain that there is no proof that they themselves released it. Computers are hacked all the time. It just HAPPENED to get out.

[Rosella]

Or we could just change the names. Actually, I was the first one to say that, so I shouldn't be making fun of people.

[Skeptikal]

Here's an idea. The game is, without VU's knowledge, finished (they aren't sitting in your office and watching your computer) and is released over a filesharing program, such as Limewire or BearShare. Until the RIAA shuts them down, the program is now in circulation and out of VU's hands. If VU goes after the creators, just explain that there is no proof that they themselves released it. Computers are hacked all the time. It just HAPPENED to get out.

Some people should really take the time to read, at least, a few pages from this forum...

[koko_99_2001]

To quote Jason  from another forum:

Well if it did leak out on P2P. Then Phoenix would be liable because they created the game therefore, they would have passed it onto someone else to send out or would be sending it out themselves. The trail would lead back to them and they would still get in alot of trouble for disobeying the cease and desist.