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There certainly are some hidden gems

Started by Kimmie, July 10, 2010, 02:53:18 PM

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B'rrr

Yush, that is what I said! they came from opposite sides of the island, thus a different current, so they quite possibly both suck at swimming!

(didn't got the line ingame about the cliffs of logic changed to the stairs and as baggings pointed out would be inconsistent but that is irrelevent for the swimming discussion at hand!  ;))
~Mary Jane supporter~
~Legend~

tessspoon

Quote from: crayauchtin on July 11, 2010, 05:11:56 PM
Does it actually say which side of the island the map deposits a person onto? I mean, it appears to be the south but do we really have any means of knowing that?
Think it's from the Companion.

Baggins

#42
Ya, its only hinted in the game, its confirmed in the companion.




Speaking of inconsistencies concerning the islands, geography of the islands (i.e. mountain ranges), in TSL don't really match up with the mountain ranges shown on the map in KQ6... but I digress, LOL. Derek's maps don't really match up with the ingame KQ6 geography either (highly stylistic). Granted what we can see of the surface of isle  (catacomb door/mountain and the Sacred Mountain in the distance) doesn't really match the KQ6 map geography either (and is somewhat closer to Derek's version).

As for the idea that "currents were bad" everywhere around the islands, and wouldn't allow swimming. You can find that during diologue in the game, the Guidebook, and the companion.
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

B'rrr

Well yes, the currents are bad everywhere, but at some parts they might be worse then others. that Graham can swim a little bit off the north shore of Isle of the Sacred Mountains doesn't imply he is a better swimmer, because if he goes a bit futher off he won't survive it anyways. maybe if he tried the same off the south shore he would be caught in the current the moment he started to swim, just like Alex.
~Mary Jane supporter~
~Legend~

Baggins

#44
Except, as its stated in the game, that said location on the north shore is supposed to be the same location as the Cliffs of Logic according to TSL's story (the inconsistency of its location between the games/sources is irrelevent).



Note that in this picture Alexander is at the the point of no return, and is about to have his legs ripped from under him. he's standing in up to his hip.

Note that the "warning" about the currents starts about the exact moment he steps into the water.


Graham pretty much swims way far past the point of no return, and is in a place he can't even stand up in. Actually notice that when he stands up in the water, he's actually just about where the point of no return was in KQ6. Graham's warning, is actually way, way past the point of no return in deep, swimmable water.

As for currents in real life, my experience on islands (and geology), and I've lived on several, is that the outer beaches of islands (that are exposed to the main ocean) tend to be far more treacherous than the inner channel portions of the island chain. The inner channel tends to slow currents down, whereas currents are free to move without obstruction on the outer edges of the islands. But this would be looking into things too deeply for KQ, LOL.

In anycase, the "Companion", placed the main Dangerous Currents on the outer edges of the islands surrounding the islands. Showing particulary more choppy water up to the north/west of the islands. :)
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

Ebenezer

Wow I really miss the cliffs.  As others have said something to do there to convince the winged guards to carry you to your audience would have made a big difference.

B'rrr

Quote from: Baggins on July 11, 2010, 05:46:16 PM
Except, as its stated in the game, that said location on the north shore is supposed to be the same location as the Cliffs of Logic according to TSL's story (the inconsistency of its location between the games/sources is irrelevent).

That is just a different point of view, on what you focus on;

I look at the beach, where they appreach the isle from, and one is north and one is south, which is true, thus they are at a different location from my point of view, thus different currents.

You say they they are both at the cliff of logic, which is true, thus the beach is the same from your point of view, thus the current is the same.
~Mary Jane supporter~
~Legend~

Baggins

I was referring to the quote in TSL, that states that it was the former Cliffs of Logic.

Unless your saying from your point of view were "two Cliffs of logic"? :p...

In anycase, in various sources, its implies that the outer edges of the islands probably have the worst currents. The kind that will take a ship down almost instantly, with whirlpools that appear out of nowhere. Let alone people. Its the location of the Rocky Shoals, that actually intensify the currents effects :p...
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

B'rrr

Quote from: Baggins on July 11, 2010, 05:59:41 PM
Unless your saying from your point of view were "two Cliffs of logic"? :p...

yus, only in TSL they do imply it is the same cliffs of logic, but since it is a different side there has to be two! who would have thought those crazy buggers! they do like their puzzles!

Quote from: Baggins on July 11, 2010, 05:59:41 PM
In anycase, in various sources, its implies that the outer edges of the islands probably have the worst currents. The kind that will take a ship down almost instantly, with whirlpools that appear out of nowhere. Let alone people. Its the location of the Rocky Shoals, that actually intensify the currents effects :p...

Aye, I can understand that, but I was under the impression that in bays (as in the bay where the Queen sails to and drop Graham) the current often is a bit calmer, could be wrong though
~Mary Jane supporter~
~Legend~

Baggins

#49
Shame, that KQ6/Guidebook/companion lore, states there was only one "Cliffs of Logic" (granted that the name does imply pluralism), LOL.

QuoteAye, I can understand that, but I was under the impression that in bays (as in the bay where the Queen sails to and drop Graham) the current often is a bit calmer, could be wrong though
Actually, depends on the type of bay, and the angle of the current, when it passes into or near the bay. In real life, some intensify currents, and others diffuse the current.

Where the northside is located though, the big ass wind cloud that's blowing the currents towards the islands, is in that general direction right into the bay, :p... That would probably be pretty bad. Currents have a tendency to reflect back, when they hit a shoreline head on (perpendicular reflection), and that's the kind of thing that causes the worst types of undertows. That being said, undertows are usually the least of your worries in real life... Its the long shore currents and rip currents that are more dangerous if IIRC. Although you can get out of a rip current by swimming perpendicular to it (until you are out of its area of effect, several hundred feet), never try to swim against a rip current (you'll never overcome it, and lose energy trying). What occurs in KQ6, actually seems to be a mixture of undertow and rip currents (but one implied to completley surround the island, unlike real-life ones that tend to be just be a couple of hundreed feet to a mile across).

QuoteUndertow
Usually, this flow is dispersed along the shore and moves lakeward in the lower half of the water column beneath the waves with the highest velocities close to the lakebed between the breakers and shore. Under mild conditions with small to moderate waves (less than two feet high to three feet high), this return flow is not usually a problem for agile swimmers and waders, except sometimes for small children. The undertow is strongest when the waves are high and approaching nearly perpendicular to shore.
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

oberonqa

Oh my goodness!!!!  Such attention to detail and yet... no one has bothered to consider the fact that there was a magical tempest brewing during TSL.  Could it be possible that the effects of such a mighty storm could affect the normally treacherous waters surrounding the Isle of the Sacred Mountain???

Sometimes it helps to think outside the box folks and not be so literal!
 
Chronicling the history of Sierra through the conversion of it's premiere magazine into an easy-to-use, searchable wiki format.

Haids1987

Oh por favor, you've had time to sit and think about it, you!  We lesser beings have only had a day to speculate!
STATUS:
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Perpetually. ;D
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oberonqa

True.... but I still am no closer to figuring out the identity of the stranger in the City Square.... so there!  :)
 
Chronicling the history of Sierra through the conversion of it's premiere magazine into an easy-to-use, searchable wiki format.

wilco64256

Maybe the tide's just in when Graham goes but when Alexander was there it was going out.  I'm trying to keep this simple.
Weldon Hathaway

Haids1987

Yeah, I like your way, Wilco. :yes:

Oberonqua is just trying to be diffiult with me. ;)
STATUS:
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Perpetually. ;D
Erica Reed is Katie Hallahan.
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KatieHal


Katie Hallahan
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I have a blog!

Baggins

#56
QuoteOh my goodness!!!!  Such attention to detail and yet... no one has bothered to consider the fact that there was a magical tempest brewing during TSL.  Could it be possible that the effects of such a mighty storm could affect the normally treacherous waters surrounding the Isle of the Sacred Mountain???

Sometimes it helps to think outside the box folks and not be so literal!

A vile tempest that's supposed to make travel on the sea even worse than normal? For the reason why they are forced to stay on the Isle of the Mists?

QuoteMaybe the tide's just in when Graham goes but when Alexander was there it was going out.  I'm trying to keep this simple.
That would actually have little affect on the undertow aspects of the island. Probably make things worse, in the fact that it would put the undertow/rip currents closer to the shore.
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

oberonqa

Quote from: Baggins on July 12, 2010, 01:53:42 AM
QuoteOh my goodness!!!!  Such attention to detail and yet... no one has bothered to consider the fact that there was a magical tempest brewing during TSL.  Could it be possible that the effects of such a mighty storm could affect the normally treacherous waters surrounding the Isle of the Sacred Mountain???

Sometimes it helps to think outside the box folks and not be so literal!

A vile tempest that's supposed to make travel on the sea even worse than normal? For the reason why they are forced to stay on the Isle of the Mists?

It's called balance my friend.  It stands to reason that if the tempest is at it's strongest in one area... it could indeed be calmer in another area. 

Or perhaps as Wilco says, perhaps the tide is in.  Either way.... you don't have to be so literal.  There could be an absolutely normal and plausible reason for why Graham is able to swim in the water in front of the Cliffs of Logic when his son could not.

Or perhaps the designers just didn't think it would be appropriate for a race of flying humans to build a dock on their island and therefore decided that the currents wouldn't be so bad in front of the Cliffs of Logic (and therefore exercizing creative license).

Me... I'm more than happy to go with the flow (no pun intended).  If Graham can swim in a place where Alexander could not... I'm going to go with the flow... because ultimately there are many reasons for why that is possible.
 
Chronicling the history of Sierra through the conversion of it's premiere magazine into an easy-to-use, searchable wiki format.

Baggins

#58
If the tide was in, that would actually make undertow/rip currents closer to shore, not eliminate it. That being said if the tide was actually up, it should actually be higher up the beach. Probably up to the steps. What we see in KQ6 and TSL, is a beach that's about the same size in both games, with the limits of the area that you could stand in the water, being about the same distance from the shore it was in KQ6.

But hey, really this is something that you should have explained in the game. Because how would people know that it would be safe to jump into the water? When everyone who talks about the water in KQ6, warns Alexander not to go swimming, and to be careful around the water. First rule of thumb, if you know the water is dangerous to begin with, you don't just start jumping into it to test to see if it would be safe to jump into when things appear to be even worse.

Infact, most people's knowledge is that the "tempests" (which are often magical in nature) that rise up from nowhere around the islands are usually very dangerous for ships, and people alike. It's the kinda of thing that took out Derek Karlavaegen's ship, and even the same kind of thing that took out Alexander's ship. So the first thing people would be thinking, is this wouldn't be the best time to jump into the water, of any days in general.

Would you eat a poisonous plant (that everyone knows is poisonous), and would normally kill you, to see if you would survive because conditions were different? Would you yourself swim in an area that is known for being treacherous even in best of weather, worse in the worst weather, just to see if you could survive?

We shouldn't have to be runnig mental gymnastics in order to explain, a descrepency. Even if speculation can be made to try to explain it away.
Well, ya, King's Quest is on Earth. Daventry is very old city from a long time ago. It's in ruins now and people aren't quite sure exactly where it used to be. There are some archaeologists searching through the ruins, they think they know its Daventry. But its somewhere on Earth."-Roberta Williams http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/File:Daventryisearth.ogg

icarus

try touching the torch in Graham's room  ::)  :suffer:
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